Auto Denies Forum

[flexityflex86]

I was just wondering what others think about auto-rejects in terms of the numbers, and law school admissions. Clearly, law schools won't be fully forthcoming in how they do their business, but does it really go like this:

School A has an LSAT median of 170 and a GPA median of a 3.7.

Applicant A has an LSAT of 160 and GPA of 3.0.

Is Applicant A is immediately rejected without so much as having their personal statement or letters of recommendation read?

If this is the case, it seems as though law schools are kind of dishonest in stating they do a holistic process in their advertising yet happily collecting application money from applicants they know they will not even consider for admission.

This didn't happen to me at all (I had the #'s for pretty much every school I applied to), but I was just wondering. I certainly have seen applicants with worse #'s than me get more money and better admission officers, but outside of URM, there was not a 10 point LSAT difference or anything.

[3ThrowAway99]

I think numbers can put a person in an auto-deny category (in that they are pretty much guaranteed a ding, it is just a matter of when and how it occurs), but I imagine that in most cases the entire application package is at least glanced over to make sure there isn't some unbelivable soft or other reason that a rare exception could be made.

I think it may border on unethical if there are law schools that auto-reject immediately upon getting numbers from LSAC without even having someone look at the application/PS/letters (because an application fee is being paid, and I think there is a reasonable inference that the application will actually be reviewed). Not that it really practically matters though (if the applicant's numbers put them in auto-reject territory it is just a matter of when and how the rejection comes). It does seem that the 'holistic approach' thing is a bit of a PR stunt; the few schools that I am aware of who say that still seem to me to be very number-driven. But really I think there is some burden on the applicant to find out how much numbers rule the day with law admissions.

[tea_drinker]

I think numbers can put a person in an auto-deny category (in that they are pretty much guaranteed a ding, it is just a matter of when and how it occurs), but I imagine that in most some rare cases the entire application package is at least glanced over to make sure there isn't some unbelivable soft or other reason that a rare exception could be made.

If this is the case, it seems as though law schools are kind of dishonest in stating they do a holistic process in their advertising yet happily collecting application money from applicants they know they will not even consider for admission.

Maybe their definition of holistic is different from yours. In addition, a holistic review doesn't mean all components of an application are considered equally.

[AreJay711]

They probably read it over jsut to make sure but with the knowledge they will be denying the person. Idk if this happens but they really don't want to deny someone that they would really want at their school. Like if some senator threw out a part time app to gtown for shits and giggles for instance.

[geoduck]

Lets take Yale, one of the biggest into the holistic thing. What it means to them is that your application is going into the hands of actual professors, three at a time I believe. They look at your whole application to see if they think you would be a good fit. Numbers are important, but professors are also looking for other markers of successful students. If all three independently say yes, then you're in. Any other mix of yes, no, and maybes gets you sent onto another level. This is far more holistic than an admissions office, say, tailoring acceptances to fit their numbers profile and raise their ranking.

But honestly, the only people who can afford to be that holistic are Yale since they will be getting the best candidates and their professors will probably be pretty strict on poor academic records. That just happens to equal amazing medians. Lower ranked schools that boast their holistic processes seem to be lite versions of the Yale process. For them, holistic means that they are taking other factors more heavily into consideration than they might otherwise. That word, however, is no promise that they're going to accept you because you are a beautiful butterfly that soars above crap numbers. If their students tend to have, as you say, a 3.7/170 median and you have a 3.0/160, you are going to have to truly wow everyone with your softs to overcome that gap. At a non-holistic school, that probably wouldn't even be an option.

[bp shinners]

From personal experience in talking with the people on admissions boards, most have told me that they'll look quickly at someone whose academic index falls into the 'unlikely' category to see if anything warrants a more in-depth look, but those numbers are pretty good at predicting whether or not the applicant will be competitive with the other students at the school. It creates a pretty strong presumption to be overcome.