what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

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firemed
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby firemed » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:57 pm

SemperLegal wrote:
EDIT: There's no such thing as the Congressional Medal of Honor, there's a Medal of Honor and a Congressional Gold Medal, two very different things.


My bad. Thanks for the correction. They didn't let me in because of some stupid kidney disease thingy, so I never got that sorted out till just now.

firemed
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby firemed » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:59 pm

RedShift wrote:
firemed wrote:overcoming a life-threatening illness, ... having survived genocide or some other heart-breaking condition

Now, I'm not saying these aren't viewed as soft factors, but if they are that's very silly. Especially the first one. Those would be great PS topics, but are not similar to accomplishing something through talent, dedication, or hard work imo.



How does overcoming a life threatening illness not count as accomplishing something through talent, dedication, and hard work? Have you ever seen someone on chemo? That shit is hard.

And I think both count as a soft because they are something that show the kind of person you are dealing with. They demonstrate character.

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buckilaw
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby buckilaw » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:09 pm

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somewhatwayward
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:19 pm

parsi wrote:Is Phi Beta Kappa a decent soft/worth anything?

Ive already been accepted to LS, but I just got an email the other day saying I was invited to join and am not sure if its even worth it at this point


i don't think it's going to help much with getting in to law school, but it is helpful to be able to put it on your resume as a way to signal to employers that you had good undergrad grades....a few years out of undergrad, it's weird to put your GPA, but it's never weird to put PBK. also, my career services office actually tells us to get rid of undergrad GPAs.

PS where's taxguy?

06162014123
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Postby 06162014123 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:30 pm

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flpackerfan
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby flpackerfan » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:45 pm

A great PS is sort of the same thing as a great soft. It isn't like there is a spot on the application that says "please list all your soft factors". You work them in where they are applicable.

Unless you're just making stuff up on your PS, it needs to be based on life experience. Going through something like being deaf, having one leg, or beating cancer are some strong experiences to draw from for a PS.

WestOfTheRest
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby WestOfTheRest » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:42 pm

RedShift wrote:
firemed wrote:
RedShift wrote:
firemed wrote:overcoming a life-threatening illness, ... having survived genocide or some other heart-breaking condition

Now, I'm not saying these aren't viewed as soft factors, but if they are that's very silly. Especially the first one. Those would be great PS topics, but are not similar to accomplishing something through talent, dedication, or hard work imo.



How does overcoming a life threatening illness not count as accomplishing something through talent, dedication, and hard work? Have you ever seen someone on chemo? That shit is hard.

And I think both count as a soft because they are something that show the kind of person you are dealing with. They demonstrate character.

I know it's hard, but that's like saying having 1 legs is a good soft, or being deaf is a good soft. Making the best of inescapable unfortunate circumstances just isn't comparable to excelling in a given field. As I said, those would make for great PS topics, which I think is the proper place to showcase your character.

Am I at a disadvantage for never having contracted a dangerous illness on my journey to law school? Can I list my superior immune system as a soft factor?

Yep, being black isn't a better soft than excelling in a given field for the purposes of LS admissions.

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Moxie
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby Moxie » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:45 pm

Strong softs: Rhodes/Fulbright/Truman, Military experience, prestigious work experience

Decent softs: Work experience, campus activities

Weak softs: Not having any activities or experience on your resume

firemed
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby firemed » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:23 pm

RedShift wrote:
firemed wrote:
RedShift wrote:
firemed wrote:overcoming a life-threatening illness, ... having survived genocide or some other heart-breaking condition

Now, I'm not saying these aren't viewed as soft factors, but if they are that's very silly. Especially the first one. Those would be great PS topics, but are not similar to accomplishing something through talent, dedication, or hard work imo.



How does overcoming a life threatening illness not count as accomplishing something through talent, dedication, and hard work? Have you ever seen someone on chemo? That shit is hard.

And I think both count as a soft because they are something that show the kind of person you are dealing with. They demonstrate character.

I know it's hard, but that's like saying having 1 legs is a good soft, or being deaf is a good soft. Making the best of inescapable unfortunate circumstances just isn't comparable to excelling in a given field. As I said, those would make for great PS topics, which I think is the proper place to showcase your character.

Am I at a disadvantage for never having contracted a dangerous illness on my journey to law school? Can I list my superior immune system as a soft factor?


Being deaf or having one leg are great softs.... Because, as you mentioned, the ability to make them into great PS topics.

Because your PS allows you to show off your softs, it can be awesome. Seriously, imagine two candidates: Candidate A has a 3.5/160, was frat president, and wrote his PS on how his semester in England changed his view of the world. Candidate B has a 3.5/160, was frat president, and wrote his PS on overcoming deafness in order to succeed in a world in which he is a minority, and about how his accomplishments meant so much more to him, and how he hopes to help other deaf people navigate the complex legal world.

Which one do you think they are going to let in?

Which is why I call it a great soft.

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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby firemed » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:24 pm

CastleRock wrote:
RedShift wrote:I know it's hard, but that's like saying having 1 legs is a good soft, or being deaf is a good soft. Making the best of inescapable unfortunate circumstances just isn't comparable to excelling in a given field. As I said, those would make for great PS topics, which I think is the proper place to showcase your character.

Am I at a disadvantage for never having contracted a dangerous illness on my journey to law school? Can I list my superior immune system as a soft factor?

Yep, being black isn't a better soft than excelling in a given field for the purposes of LS admissions.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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eaglemuncher
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby eaglemuncher » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:35 pm

The more I hear about guys who feel that their military experience gave them a nice boost, the more I feel that something on my application must have really sucked (PS or LORs). I really feel that I underperformed my numbers waitlisted at three LSN "Strong Considers" and one "Admit"

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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:10 am

eaglemuncher wrote:The more I hear about guys who feel that their military experience gave them a nice boost, the more I feel that something on my application must have really sucked (PS or LORs). I really feel that I underperformed my numbers waitlisted at three LSN "Strong Considers" and one "Admit"


sorry to hear that man. All of my vet friends outperformed their cycle but all were legal at some point in their military career and had other schools or awards such as bronze star, airborne, air assualt, sapper, pathfinder, ranger qualified etc. I have two of the previous things and I got into Yale when URM with better numbers didn't. I think that you have to play up how you excelled in the military and how your military experience will add to the law school.
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03121202698008
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:04 am

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
eaglemuncher wrote:The more I hear about guys who feel that their military experience gave them a nice boost, the more I feel that something on my application must have really sucked (PS or LORs). I really feel that I underperformed my numbers waitlisted at three LSN "Strong Considers" and one "Admit"


sorry to hear that man. All of my vet friends outperformed their cycle but all we're legal at some point in their military career and had other schools or awards bronze star, airborne, air assualt, sapper, pathfinder, ranger qualified etc. I have two of the previous things and I got into Yale when URM with better numbers didn't. I think that you have to play up how you excelled in the military and how your military experience will add to the law school.


This. I outperformed and got $...10 years as mil cop, multiple deployments, multiple achievement/commendation medals, unique work experience like advising a US Ambassador on terrorism stuff, etc.

The key is to play up what skills you bring, what you learned, etc. I think the whole "There I was crawling in the sand when a bullet zinged past me head" kind of PS's (starting with some kind of action) common on here are overdone and actually detract on what you could tell them.

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NiccoloA
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby NiccoloA » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:19 pm

glitter178 wrote:
Straw_Mandible wrote:
dpk711 wrote:softs won't overcome a poor LSAT/GPA.


I think that point is clear, but we can still rate how certain softs might fare against others among applicants with comparable numbers. That's what the OP is interested in.


The OP seems interested in knowing if lack of softs (or lack of good softs) are going to result in a bad cycle despite competitive numbers. The answer is no.


That made my night, because quite frankly my softs are complete crap.

I don't get how people come up with all of these great things.

I always just assumed I was a normal student, not above average and not below average. Normal. I worked through college, did a bit of volunteering (actually, not really), I've joined a few student organizations, but quit one and couldn't be bothered to be president of any others.

I worked hard to get a high GPA and a high LSAT score (hopefully). If that doesn't get me into one of the schools I want to go to, then it wasn't meant to be for me, I guess. What more do they want really?


Even my PS statement is probably going to suck. And what's this about a "Why _____?" essay on top of that?


Couldn't they just take the smartest kids they can find and run with it?

Thankfully it seems they do.

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minnbills
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby minnbills » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:46 pm

Sometimes I think, for most candidates, soft factors are more about demonstrating that you're well rounded as opposed to using them to overcome poor performance.

I think of it as meeting a threshold, you're involved in enough things other than school to be a convincing candidate for law school, or you're not.

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Wade LeBosh
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby Wade LeBosh » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:17 am

NiccoloA wrote:I worked hard to get a high GPA and a high LSAT score (hopefully). If that doesn't get me into one of the schools I want to go to, then it wasn't meant to be for me, I guess. What more do they want really?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Farrow

firemed
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby firemed » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:54 am

Wade LeBosh wrote:
NiccoloA wrote:I worked hard to get a high GPA and a high LSAT score (hopefully). If that doesn't get me into one of the schools I want to go to, then it wasn't meant to be for me, I guess. What more do they want really?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Farrow


Um.... I am filled with hate for that dude. Srsly, 16 and accepted to Yale Law and he was so badass he just told them "You wait for me, I gots some shit to do. Holbrook is doing stuff I like." Wow... I jelly.

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Wade LeBosh
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby Wade LeBosh » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:05 am

firemed wrote:
Wade LeBosh wrote:
NiccoloA wrote:I worked hard to get a high GPA and a high LSAT score (hopefully). If that doesn't get me into one of the schools I want to go to, then it wasn't meant to be for me, I guess. What more do they want really?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Farrow


Um.... I am filled with hate for that dude. Srsly, 16 and accepted to Yale Law and he was so badass he just told them "You wait for me, I gots some shit to do. Holbrook is doing stuff I like." Wow... I jelly.


Graduating college at 15 and Woody Allen being your dad are strong softs. But something tells me this kid did pretty well on the LSAT. Something...

firemed
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby firemed » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:10 am

Wade LeBosh wrote:
firemed wrote:
Wade LeBosh wrote:
NiccoloA wrote:I worked hard to get a high GPA and a high LSAT score (hopefully). If that doesn't get me into one of the schools I want to go to, then it wasn't meant to be for me, I guess. What more do they want really?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Farrow


Um.... I am filled with hate for that dude. Srsly, 16 and accepted to Yale Law and he was so badass he just told them "You wait for me, I gots some shit to do. Holbrook is doing stuff I like." Wow... I jelly.


Graduating college at 15 and Woody Allen being your dad are strong softs. But something tells me this kid did pretty well on the LSAT. Something...


Actually I heard he only got a 163. So, like, technically I did better. Of course, I was nearly 20 years older than he was when he took his, so... YMMV I guess.

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Wade LeBosh
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby Wade LeBosh » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:45 am

firemed wrote:
Actually I heard he only got a 163. So, like, technically I did better. Of course, I was nearly 20 years older than he was when he took his, so... YMMV I guess.


That's not bad for a teenager. Then this would be a case of softs overpowering numbers.

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NiccoloA
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby NiccoloA » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:31 am

Wade LeBosh wrote:
NiccoloA wrote:I worked hard to get a high GPA and a high LSAT score (hopefully). If that doesn't get me into one of the schools I want to go to, then it wasn't meant to be for me, I guess. What more do they want really?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Farrow


Well damn...


We're all inferior.

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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby imjustjoking22 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:13 am

NiccoloA wrote:
Wade LeBosh wrote:
NiccoloA wrote:I worked hard to get a high GPA and a high LSAT score (hopefully). If that doesn't get me into one of the schools I want to go to, then it wasn't meant to be for me, I guess. What more do they want really?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Farrow


Well damn...


We're all inferior.


+1.

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Lawquacious
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Re: what are strong softs/decent softs/weak softs?

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:03 am

This is my idea of what range of benefit certain softs will fall under:


Very Strong to Exceptional Softs: (likely a very major boost; rare)

-Famous Person/ Well-known author
-Pulitizer Prize, Nobel Prize, or other major National or International Award winner
-International prominence or leadership in a particular field
-Olympic Medals/ well-known sports figure
-Rhodes Scholar (maybe more on top of strong to very strong category)


Strong to Very Strong Softs: (still likely a considerable boost; still uncommon)


-Recognized Innovation in a particular field, or national-level awards or recognition
-High-level management work experience for major national company
-High-level family connections (e.g. grandfather is on U.S. Supreme Court or father is a Congressperson or Senator; could also fall under exceptional range)
-History of overcoming very dramatic and massive hardships-- e.g. being raised in 3rd world country during time of war etc.; surviving horrible (perhaps nationally-recognized) tragedy in an amazing manner (may be top of decent to strong category)


Decent to Strong Softs (probably still noticeable boost, although not major)

-Veteran
-Extensive and impressive work experience (may often still function as weak soft though; bigger soft for purposes of firm hiring rather than admissions, especially if experience was in business)
-Diversity Factors (other than URM status; may also fall in lower or higher categories as well)
-Attended and excelled at HYPS undergrad, and also have other strong experience factors (may be weak soft)
-Member of certain highly regarded honor societies (may be weak soft)
-Combination of a number of weak soft factors
-See also below, as a number of those likely can extend into this range or even higher in some cases

Weak to Decent Softs (could help all other things being equal, but no noticeable boost)

-Solid Work Experience (may be strong soft for NU)
-Legacy (could be higher boost if well-known relative though)
-Student government (could be stronger boost for certain roles possibly)
-Work through undergrad
-First in family to attend college
-Overcome hardship (probably ranging to decent or strong for dramatic or very dramatic cases)
-Honor society member (though depending on which one may be decent to strong)
-Frat membership and leadership/ Active role in campus activities



Although it may be a distinct factor, to the extent that URM status is considered a soft or compared to any boost that softs can give, I think URM boosts probably range from the 'decent to strong' category through the 'strong to very strong' category, depending on the type of URM and the number configuration the URM boost is being applied to (e.g. URM boosts generally favor reverse-splitter number sets more than splitter number sets).




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