Optimism from NYLS Forum

[MrPapagiorgio]

Don't ask me why I applied, but this was in the e-mail I received after they notified me that my seat was forfeited (although I withdrew 2 months ago). Not meant to troll NYLS, but I have not seen this from an actual law school to date. If this is old, my apologies.

There is a great deal of information, misinformation, and disinformation about law schools in the media, on the Internet, as well as those in the legal profession. The economic downturn of the past few years has focused tremendous attention on law schools; not all of the reports are correct or in the proper context. Here are some facts to consider while making your decision:

* While the number of persons taking the LSAT and applying for admission to law schools in the US this year has declined from last year, it remains the second largest year on record according to LSAC. The media is definitely overplaying (and short-changing the facts) the drop in interest in law study. This was one of the most competitive years to gain admission to New York Law School as our applications increased by approximately 40% from last year.

* The “angry law grad” movement that has gotten much media attention, most notably by the New York Times, isn’t being reported with the full story. What most of these reports, stories, and blogs fail to say is that these angry grads generally did not have clear reasons for going to law school in the first place, did little research on legal hiring and careers before law school, and, most damning, chose their law school based solely or primarily on rankings (like USN&WR) or by name recognition of the law school. By-and-large, they failed to assess their needs and values and focus on outputs of the schools they considered. Don’t let that be you.

* New York Law School has the lowest student loan default rate of any law school in the country, less than 1/10th of one percent. This means that our graduates are getting jobs, earning money and able to repay their loans.

* In addition to their overall rankings, USN&WR also ranks various aspects of law schools. Our evening program, which was established in 1904, ranks 44th nationally of the 80 part-time programs ranked. Our Intellectual Property program is ranked 26th nationally. Further, USN&WR ranks NYLS 69th in diversity with more than 30% of our students from underrepresented groups and 12% Latino/Hispanic.

[whymeohgodno]

NYLS is becoming almost as bad as Cooley.

[Helmholtz]

I like how they downplay the rankings and then brag about 44th out of the 88 PT programs and 69th in diversity.

Also, I'm not sure you're allowed to make fun of NYLS if you applied to them.

[MrPapagiorgio]

Also, I'm not sure you're allowed to make fun of NYLS if you applied to them.

Touche. I applied in a moment of weakness (plus no fee to apply). But I am not making fun of them, just thought I'd point this gem out. I felt like replying "cool story, bro."

[scammedhard]

NYLS can say whatever they want... I think the law school bubble has been popped and a lot of TTTs like NYLS are going to be decimated.

[MrAnon]

Talk about your scams.

* New York Law School has the lowest student loan default rate of any law school in the country, less than 1/10th of one percent. This means that our graduates are getting jobs, earning money and able to repay their loans.

NO IT DOESN'T. First of all, there is a cutoff in the measurement of the default rate. I believe it is 24 months. So essentially you can defer for a year, then dick around with the lender for another year, then you no longer count even if you default. Second of all, it doesn't mean what they say it means. They make a huge leap. For all anyone knows, it means their graduates have wealthy parents, which is not a big leap itself considering all the costs attendant with the school and its location.

[AssociateX]

....

* The “angry law grad” movement that has gotten much media attention, most notably by the New York Times, isn’t being reported with the full story. What most of these reports, stories, and blogs fail to say is that these angry grads generally did not have clear reasons for going to law school in the first place, did little research on legal hiring and careers before law school, and, most damning, chose their law school based solely or primarily on rankings (like USN&WR) or by name recognition of the law school. By-and-large, they failed to assess their needs and values and focus on outputs of the schools they considered. Don’t let that be you.

[/quote]

This is wrong on many levels. The "scamblogging" movement is not a movement - its reality couched with experiences of real people who are trying to let 0Ls know about the fact that law school degree is no longer a ticket to an easy wealthy or upper middle class lifestyle. I support anyone who makes an informed decision on whether the JD is a worthy degree to pursue. There is an actual law article from Prof Campos (Univ of Colorado) that talks how law schools are INTENTIONALLY deceiving applicants about the realities of the legal job market. Big firms keep cutting down their classes, there are many more attorneys being pumped out of newly ABA accredited law schools than the job market can sustain. Like the housing market crash of 2008 - the Student Loan Bubble is just read yto burst.

But dont let me be the messenger - you can read for yourself over at JDUnderground.com.

[thecynic69]

I like how they downplay the rankings and then brag about 44th out of the 88 PT programs and 69th in diversity.


Also, I'm not sure you're allowed to make fun of NYLS if you applied to them.

Hey, there are some applicants who simply mix up NYLS and NYU school of law, and they perhaps have more right than anyone to make fun of nyls!

[clintonius]

I like how they downplay the rankings and then brag about 44th out of the 88 PT programs and 69th in diversity.


Also, I'm not sure you're allowed to make fun of NYLS if you applied to them.

Hey, there are some applicants who simply mix up NYLS and NYU school of law, and they perhaps have more right than anyone to make fun of nyls!

Well, they would have the right, but for NYLS's 26th-ranked IP program.

[OldTymeyFaceSmasher]

Are all the people bitching about not finding legal jobs the ones that went to 3rd and 4th tier law schools? I mean, is there really a decent UPenn or Columbia graduate out there who can't find a job? That seems a little hard to believe.

What is perfectly believable is that loads of students with middling GPAs and LSATs who got accepted into sub-par law schools are having trouble finding work . . . but then, that's the story with every graduate, law school or no. The bottom is falling out of the "college revolution" in general, as there are plenty of sub-par or barely decent colleges granting degrees with graduates who can't find jobs.

Why is this different? Were people expecting to got to law school on a 2.9 and a 151 and be employable when they got out? I'm not being facetious, I really don't understand what the anger/confusion is all about.

[whymeohgodno]

This should be titled "Deceit verging on Lies from NYLS"

[rose711]

There are posts on this forum from CCN people who don't have jobs. Just look for them. You are making a mistake if you think it is only NYLS grads who can't find work (NYLS claims to the contrary notwithstanding)

[BoomBoom1986]

Don't ask me why I applied, but this was in the e-mail I received after they notified me that my seat was forfeited (although I withdrew 2 months ago). Not meant to troll NYLS, but I have not seen this from an actual law school to date. If this is old, my apologies.

There is a great deal of information, misinformation, and disinformation about law schools in the media, on the Internet, as well as those in the legal profession. The economic downturn of the past few years has focused tremendous attention on law schools; not all of the reports are correct or in the proper context. Here are some facts to consider while making your decision:

* While the number of persons taking the LSAT and applying for admission to law schools in the US this year has declined from last year, it remains the second largest year on record according to LSAC. The media is definitely overplaying (and short-changing the facts) the drop in interest in law study. This was one of the most competitive years to gain admission to New York Law School as our applications increased by approximately 40% from last year.

* The “angry law grad” movement that has gotten much media attention, most notably by the New York Times, isn’t being reported with the full story. What most of these reports, stories, and blogs fail to say is that these angry grads generally did not have clear reasons for going to law school in the first place, did little research on legal hiring and careers before law school, and, most damning, chose their law school based solely or primarily on rankings (like USN&WR) or by name recognition of the law school. By-and-large, they failed to assess their needs and values and focus on outputs of the schools they considered. Don’t let that be you.

* New York Law School has the lowest student loan default rate of any law school in the country, less than 1/10th of one percent. This means that our graduates are getting jobs, earning money and able to repay their loans.

* In addition to their overall rankings, USN&WR also ranks various aspects of law schools. Our evening program, which was established in 1904, ranks 44th nationally of the 80 part-time programs ranked. Our Intellectual Property program is ranked 26th nationally. Further, USN&WR ranks NYLS 69th in diversity with more than 30% of our students from underrepresented groups and 12% Latino/Hispanic.

Jesus Christ

[Grizz]

I mean, is there really a decent UPenn or Columbia graduate out there who can't find a job?

Yes.

[scammedhard]

I mean, is there really a decent UPenn or Columbia graduate out there who can't find a job? That seems a little hard to believe.

I don't know what you mean by "decent graduate," but here I offer you a few articles about the matter that are not specifically related to "decent UPenn or Columbia" graduates...

I graduated from Northwestern Law in 2009. It is now 2011, my loans are coming due (real due — not the fake, put ‘em in forebearance, due of yesteryear), and I am currently “employed” doing two things: reviewing documents at an embarrassing hourly wage on projects that start and stop without any sort of consistency, and writing “jokes” about the Microsoft Zune every weekday morning, every other week.

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/law-scho ... -on-a-rug/

or

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/just-how ... eneration/

or

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/direct-e ... bs-market/

or

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/most-cre ... -services/

or

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/law-stud ... mployment/

or

So Mr. Ronisky, a 25-year-old student at Chicago's Northwestern University School of Law, spent the fall sending 50 resumes to law firms and government agencies, to no avail. Now, just days shy of graduation and with $150,000 of student loans, he plans to move back to his parents' home in San Diego and sell music and movies online.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 18446.html

etc, etc, etc...

[IzziesGal]

Nothing personal against Mr. Ronisky, but 50 apps is nowhere near enough. If he thinks that it is, then there's your problem. Try sending around 200-300 using NALP, Vault, and Martindale, and then we're talking.

Edit: I sent out more than 50 for my 1L summer, and certainly more than that for my 2L summer.

[OldTymeyFaceSmasher]

I mean, is there really a decent UPenn or Columbia graduate out there who can't find a job? That seems a little hard to believe.

I don't know what you mean by "decent graduate," but here I offer you a few articles about the matter that are not specifically related to "decent UPenn or Columbia" graduates...

I graduated from Northwestern Law in 2009. It is now 2011, my loans are coming due (real due — not the fake, put ‘em in forebearance, due of yesteryear), and I am currently “employed” doing two things: reviewing documents at an embarrassing hourly wage on projects that start and stop without any sort of consistency, and writing “jokes” about the Microsoft Zune every weekday morning, every other week.

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/law-scho ... -on-a-rug/

or

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/just-how ... eneration/

or

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/direct-e ... bs-market/

or

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/most-cre ... -services/

or

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/law-stud ... mployment/

or

So Mr. Ronisky, a 25-year-old student at Chicago's Northwestern University School of Law, spent the fall sending 50 resumes to law firms and government agencies, to no avail. Now, just days shy of graduation and with $150,000 of student loans, he plans to move back to his parents' home in San Diego and sell music and movies online.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 18446.html

etc, etc, etc...

Good to know. Hoorah for a shitty economy!

[Rurik]

lol Northwestern

[jenesaislaw]

Thanks to a TLSer sending this email to us, we've written about Dean Perez's comments and how they may rise to deceptive levels. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/20 ... practices/

Next week we will contact NYLS to let its admins know that they need to adjust their statements and information, followed by a complaint to the ABA if they do not remedy the situation.

[bigben]

Thanks to a TLSer sending this email to us, we've written about Dean Perez's comments and how they may rise to deceptive levels. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/20 ... practices/

Next week we will contact NYLS to let its admins know that they need to adjust their statements and information, followed by a complaint to the ABA if they do not remedy the situation.

Get 'em!

[scammedhard]

Thanks to a TLSer sending this email to us, we've written about Dean Perez's comments and how they may rise to deceptive levels. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/20 ... practices/

Next week we will contact NYLS to let its admins know that they need to adjust their statements and information, followed by a complaint to the ABA if they do not remedy the situation.

Well done.
Also, I know the ABA is useless, but, in any case, I think you guys should just go ahead and file a complaint to the ABA. Why wait for NYLS to remedy the situation? Enough is enough.

[jenesaislaw]

Thanks to a TLSer sending this email to us, we've written about Dean Perez's comments and how they may rise to deceptive levels. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/20 ... practices/

Next week we will contact NYLS to let its admins know that they need to adjust their statements and information, followed by a complaint to the ABA if they do not remedy the situation.

Well done.
Also, I know the ABA is useless, but, in any case, I think you guys should just go ahead and file a complaint to the ABA. Why wait for NYLS to remedy the situation? Enough is enough.

One of the reasons is because the complaint must state a description of any steps taken to exhaust the law school’s grievance process and any actions taken by the law school in response to the complaint. [Rule 24(d)3(ii) and (iii).] --LinkRemoved--

Another reason will be more apparent on Sunday.

Others are tactical.

[scammedhard]

One of the reasons is because the complaint must state a description of any steps taken to exhaust the law school’s grievance process and any actions taken by the law school in response to the complaint. [Rule 24(d)3(ii) and (iii).] --LinkRemoved--

Another reason will be more apparent on Sunday.

Others are tactical.

I see... You guys are basically doing what the ABA, as a regulatory entity, should be doing: making sure law schools are truthful. The uselessness and incompetence of the ABA never cease to amaze me.
Please keep us updated.

EDIT:

jenesaislaw: What about just bypassing the ABA and filing a complaint with the Dept. of Education?

[Sandro]

LST should get a news program to do a story on shit like this. You guys have all the material and the numbers would make for some fairly good story.