LSAC: Harm vs. benefit of not reporting race?

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rose711
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:57 pm

Re: LSAC: Harm vs. benefit of not reporting race?

Postby rose711 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:14 pm

krasivaya wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
krasivaya wrote:Crisis averted!

What's odd is I put Asian on my UG applications and didn't seem to have any issues, but I do live in Texas. Deciding between the White and Asian boxes is always so tricky D:


The negative effects are most noticeable at elite schools.


True, though I think the lack of affirmative action at UTexas had the same effect here as it did at Berkeley. And the top 10% rule. There's an insane amount of Asians here.

So much so that this page made it to a prominent place on our counseling website, it's hard not to laugh -

http://cmhc.utexas.edu/modelminority.html


Yes, this might seem funny until you read posts by Asian 1Ls on here who are failing school, almost suicidal and afraid to tell their parents because of the shame they have brought to the family by not excelling at law school. The cultural pressure is intense and adds to the pressure that everyone feels to be the top 10%-20% of the class. It is heartbreaking to me to read these posts by good people/students who are so screwed over by cultural pressure. (and not just Asians, every post by someone who is failing at school and filled with shame, depression and inability to deal with failure because of expectations is hard to read.)

OP: you know the reason race is asked, you choose how you want to fill it out. But, in applying to LS every single person here should take advantage of every opportunity to get admitted to the best law school they can. For some people connections will help them - should they not take advantage of that? For other people - URM status will help them - should they not take advantage of that?
Last edited by rose711 on Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

whymeohgodno
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: LSAC: Harm vs. benefit of not reporting race?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:20 pm

rose711 wrote:
krasivaya wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
krasivaya wrote:Crisis averted!

What's odd is I put Asian on my UG applications and didn't seem to have any issues, but I do live in Texas. Deciding between the White and Asian boxes is always so tricky D:


The negative effects are most noticeable at elite schools.


True, though I think the lack of affirmative action at UTexas had the same effect here as it did at Berkeley. And the top 10% rule. There's an insane amount of Asians here.

So much so that this page made it to a prominent place on our counseling website, it's hard not to laugh -

http://cmhc.utexas.edu/modelminority.html


Yes, this might seem funny until you read posts by Asian 1Ls on here who are failing school, almost suicidal and afraid to tell their parents because of the shame they have brought to the family by not excelling at law school. The cultural pressure is intense and adds to the pressure that everyone feels to be the top 10%-20% of the class. It is heartbreaking to me to read these posts by good people/students who are so screwed over by cultural pressure. (and not just Asians, everyone who is failing at school and filled with shame and inability to deal with failure because of expectations is hard to read.)

OP: you know the reason race is asked, you choose how you want to fill it out. But, in applying to LS every single person here should take advantage of every opportunity to get admitted to the best law school they can. For some people connections will help them - should they not take advantage of that? For other people - URM status will help them - should they not take advantage of that?


Where are these posts? Just curious.

rose711
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:57 pm

Re: LSAC: Harm vs. benefit of not reporting race?

Postby rose711 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:29 pm

Yes, this might seem funny until you read posts by Asian 1Ls on here who are failing school, almost suicidal and afraid to tell their parents because of the shame they have brought to the family by not excelling at law school. The cultural pressure is intense and adds to the pressure that everyone feels to be the top 10%-20% of the class. It is heartbreaking to me to read these posts by good people/students who are so screwed over by cultural pressure. (and not just Asians, everyone who is failing at school and filled with shame and inability to deal with failure because of expectations is hard to read.)

OP: you know the reason race is asked, you choose how you want to fill it out. But, in applying to LS every single person here should take advantage of every opportunity to get admitted to the best law school they can. For some people connections will help them - should they not take advantage of that? For other people - URM status will help them - should they not take advantage of that?


Where are these posts? Just curious.[/quote]

I've seen a couple in the law school student section, I think. I can find them if I search my posts because I posted in the threads but I feel kind of dirty exposing people like that.

whymeohgodno
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: LSAC: Harm vs. benefit of not reporting race?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:39 pm

rose711 wrote:
Yes, this might seem funny until you read posts by Asian 1Ls on here who are failing school, almost suicidal and afraid to tell their parents because of the shame they have brought to the family by not excelling at law school. The cultural pressure is intense and adds to the pressure that everyone feels to be the top 10%-20% of the class. It is heartbreaking to me to read these posts by good people/students who are so screwed over by cultural pressure. (and not just Asians, everyone who is failing at school and filled with shame and inability to deal with failure because of expectations is hard to read.)

OP: you know the reason race is asked, you choose how you want to fill it out. But, in applying to LS every single person here should take advantage of every opportunity to get admitted to the best law school they can. For some people connections will help them - should they not take advantage of that? For other people - URM status will help them - should they not take advantage of that?


Where are these posts? Just curious.


I've seen a couple in the law school student section, I think. I can find them if I search my posts because I posted in the threads but I feel kind of dirty exposing people like that.[/quote]

Could you PM me? Really curious.

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niederbomb
Posts: 962
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Re: LSAC: Harm vs. benefit of not reporting race?

Postby niederbomb » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:01 pm

[quote]
What's odd is I put Asian on my UG applications and didn't seem to have any issues, but I do live in Texas. Deciding between the White and Asian boxes is always so tricky D:

The negative effects are most noticeable at elite schools.

True, though I think the lack of affirmative action at UTexas had the same effect here as it did at Berkeley. And the top 10% rule. There's an insane amount of Asians here.

So much so that this page made it to a prominent place on our counseling website, it's hard not to laugh -


Yes, this might seem funny until you read posts by Asian 1Ls on here who are failing school, almost suicidal and afraid to tell their parents because of the shame they have brought to the family by not excelling at law school. The cultural pressure is intense and adds to the pressure that everyone feels to be the top 10%-20% of the class. It is heartbreaking to me to read these posts by good people/students who are so screwed over by cultural pressure. (and not just Asians, every post by someone who is failing at school and filled with shame, depression and inability to deal with failure because of expectations is hard to read.)

OP: you know the reason race is asked, you choose how you want to fill it out. But, in applying to LS every single person here should take advantage of every opportunity to get admitted to the best law school they can. For some people connections will help them - should they not take advantage of that? For other people - URM status will help them - should they not take advantage of that?[/quote]

That puts AA in a new light. I like that argument a lot and plan to plagiarize it in the future. Then, again, as someone from a working class white family, I've always hated rich people a lot more than I've hated URM's. :wink:

Has any school really "ended" AA? I thought they got around the issue by using "holistic" admissions.

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DoubleChecks
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: LSAC: Harm vs. benefit of not reporting race?

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:09 pm

krasivaya wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
krasivaya wrote:Crisis averted!

What's odd is I put Asian on my UG applications and didn't seem to have any issues, but I do live in Texas. Deciding between the White and Asian boxes is always so tricky D:


The negative effects are most noticeable at elite schools.


True, though I think the lack of affirmative action at UTexas had the same effect here as it did at Berkeley. And the top 10% rule. There's an insane amount of Asians here.

So much so that this page made it to a prominent place on our counseling website, it's hard not to laugh -

http://cmhc.utexas.edu/modelminority.html


wait, i dont get why thats funny. it also contributes to the "bamboo ceiling" -- asians dont tend to get past middle management, with plenty of studies showing how they get paid/promoted less than their white counter-parts who have the same education/age. wasnt there also recently a study about minorities at law firms, and how even though asians make up like 50% of minority lawyers, %-wise they get promoted less often/slower than other minorities? i dont completely remember that article, if anyone else knows it and can link. when everyone thinks you're thriving, not a lot of reform is sought after.

and yeah, TX 10% rule makes things diff...though i heard it recently got changed (lower % cutoff now?)

whymeohgodno
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: LSAC: Harm vs. benefit of not reporting race?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:25 pm

Wikipedia:

"Bamboo Ceiling – The exclusion of Asian-descendants from executive and managerial roles on the basis of subjective factors such as "lack of leadership potential" or "inferior communication ability" where the East Asian-descendants candidate has superior objective credentials such as education in high-prestige universities (in comparison to their white counterparts with only lower-prestige university credentials).[52] For example, research shows that there are a decent number of partners at leading prestigious law firms in the United States who did not attend top notch law schools. However, you will seldom find an East Asian American partner of a leading law firm who did not attend a "Top 16 Law School" (according to the US News ranking)."

dkt4
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: LSAC: Harm vs. benefit of not reporting race?

Postby dkt4 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:35 pm

niederbomb wrote:That puts AA in a new light. I like that argument a lot and plan to plagiarize it in the future. Then, again, as someone from a working class white family, I've always hated rich people a lot more than I've hated URM's. :wink:

Has any school really "ended" AA? I thought they got around the issue by using "holistic" admissions.


orly?




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