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uncjtd20 wrote:Hey guys,
I've been mulling over whether or not to apply for law school for some time now. Recently I've decided to take the plunge, but after reading several posts concerning the effects of criminal charges on a person's chances for admission, and more importantly, the character and fitness portion of the bar, I'm a bit concerned.

Long story short, I have a relatively extensive criminal history. And by "criminal," I certainly don't mean anything heinous or egregious, but rather some (incredibly) stupid offenses from a period of time when I was rather immature. Here's the breakdown:
1- Possession of malt beverage (Age 16) - expunged
2 - Drunk and Disorderly; Possession of malt beverage; Resisting arrest (Age 18, these are obviously 3 separate charges) - dismissed after 48 hours of community service
3 - Misdemeanor larceny (shoplifting, Age 19) - this is the one I'm really ashamed of. Dismissed after 24 hours of community service.
4 - Possession of a malt beverage (Age 19) - Dismissed after alcohol classes

If you do the math, that's 6 misdemeanors. I'm 22 now, and haven't gotten in any other trouble. I'll be 23 when I apply, 24 when I enroll. I have pretty good numbers (3.78 GPA with LSATs of 170 and 175), but I'm not sure how much my record will cost me. It also makes it difficult to assess which schools I should target, and how much heat I'll be facing during the Bar process. I'm under the impression that the alcohol related charges won't be of grave concern, but what about the larceny charge. Jesus, it makes me sick just thinking about it.

Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated. Specifically, if anyone has gone through a similar situation, I would love to hear about it and how it played out.

uncjtd20 wrote:Thanks for the quick responses. As far as cleaning up my act goes, I feel I have made steps in the right direction. After the final offense, I transferred universities to give me some separation from my past and start anew. It took me entirely too long, but I feel I've matured immensely from that time. I transferred to a much more prestigious university, and my grades actually improved somewhat dramatically, so I'm hoping the strong upward trend will help evidence that I've moved on from such foolish endeavors. It just makes me feel a bit queezy when I think about actually putting this stuff down on my applications.

txadv11 wrote:If it ends up causing problems for admissions (which I don't think you'll get dinged by too many with those numbers), there are schools that only ask for responses about convictions and I even had one that only asked for felonies and violent crimes. "shop" around if it REALLY bothers you, which by that, I mean log on to LSAC when applications become available and look through different schools.

Again, I think this will warrant a well written addenda, but you'll get past it.

AD How should an applicant explain criminal or academic probationary issues in the application? Do you recommend an addendum for this?

JR I definitely recommend an addendum. In fact, we require it in such circumstances. There is a part of our application that specifically addresses criminal charges or any disciplinary sanctions in their academic history -- then we require an addendum. If a candidate has one of these, then they must submit an explanation. We care about the applicant’s explanation about whatever that instance was.

Of course, it makes applicants nervous if they have something in their past that they may not be particularly proud of, but I think the key is for that person to be entirely honest about what happened and to show an appropriate level of remorse and regret. If they do that, then the admissions committee will take that into consideration. Bad things in a person’s past are not immediately prohibitive -- it only becomes a problem when the applicant is either dishonest by failing to reveal the incident(s) or where it’s clear that the person is not giving all of the relevant information surrounding that incident. Because the person appears evasive and dishonest it becomes problematic and, again, these are not qualities you want in someone you’re considering for admission to a law school.

AD And it also presents a problem for them down the road when they go before the character and fitness committee of the bar.

JR Absolutely. Which is another thing that I think applicants don’t understand. As thorough as we are in our review of an application for admission, the bar examiners are even more thorough. They will even ask about expunged charges or convictions -- every single thing that the applicant may have been involved in. So, the earlier a student reports it in the admissions process, the less likely it will cause a problem later on down the road. Even things that might seem minor that a candidate doesn’t report on the law school application, they might get discovered when they apply to become members of the bar. Then the applicant’s non-disclosure becomes the issue and this can really cause problems with him or her getting certified to practice law.

AD From your description, it sounds like they need to report any “charges” regardless of whether the applicant was actually ever convicted. Is that correct?

JR We specifically ask for charges where the person has pled, settled, or were found guilty. In those cases, we’d want to know what happened. If the charges were dropped, then at our particular school, we don’t necessarily have to know about the incident. It’s important to note that if the person is applying to several schools, the other schools might have disclosure standards that are very different than ours. Law schools purposely craft their disclosure standards based on their own state’s bar requirements or that school’s requirements. So, it’s in the applicant’s best interest to read that section of the application very carefully and make sure they respond accordingly. Law school applications are by no means uniform -- especially when it comes to disclosing these types of things.

dood wrote:lol @ replies. have any of u actually been in OPs situation??

OP: every single response is either irrelevant, pure speculation, or flat out retarded wrong. go see a lawyer who specializes on C&F issues. but in short, u'r most likely fucked for law school, and EVEN IF u are admitted and graduate law school, u'r gonna have hella issues passing C&F, and EVEN IF u pass C&F, no firm or federal agency will hire u. go see a lawyer now.

but blowhard makes a good point: stop drinking malt beverages.

uncjtd20 wrote:

dood wrote:lol @ replies. have any of u actually been in OPs situation??

OP: every single response is either irrelevant, pure speculation, or flat out retarded wrong. go see a lawyer who specializes on C&F issues. but in short, u'r most likely fucked for law school, and EVEN IF u are admitted and graduate law school, u'r gonna have hella issues passing C&F, and EVEN IF u pass C&F, no firm or federal agency will hire u. go see a lawyer now.

but blowhard makes a good point: stop drinking malt beverages.

And what exactly makes you such an expert on the subject? I find a lot of what you've said to be incredibly hard to believe. When I take the Bar, I'll be 27, 8 years removed from my last incident. What makes you so sure I'm fucked? And why should I believe you over anyone else?

thecilent wrote:

uncjtd20 wrote:

dood wrote:lol @ replies. have any of u actually been in OPs situation??

OP: every single response is either irrelevant, pure speculation, or flat out retarded wrong. go see a lawyer who specializes on C&F issues. but in short, u'r most likely fucked for law school, and EVEN IF u are admitted and graduate law school, u'r gonna have hella issues passing C&F, and EVEN IF u pass C&F, no firm or federal agency will hire u. go see a lawyer now.

but blowhard makes a good point: stop drinking malt beverages.

And what exactly makes you such an expert on the subject? I find a lot of what you've said to be incredibly hard to believe. When I take the Bar, I'll be 27, 8 years removed from my last incident. What makes you so sure I'm fucked? And why should I believe you over anyone else?

dood has no idea what he's talking about.

Magnolia wrote:

thecilent wrote:

uncjtd20 wrote:

dood wrote:lol @ replies. have any of u actually been in OPs situation??

OP: every single response is either irrelevant, pure speculation, or flat out retarded wrong. go see a lawyer who specializes on C&F issues. but in short, u'r most likely fucked for law school, and EVEN IF u are admitted and graduate law school, u'r gonna have hella issues passing C&F, and EVEN IF u pass C&F, no firm or federal agency will hire u. go see a lawyer now.

but blowhard makes a good point: stop drinking malt beverages.

And what exactly makes you such an expert on the subject? I find a lot of what you've said to be incredibly hard to believe. When I take the Bar, I'll be 27, 8 years removed from my last incident. What makes you so sure I'm fucked? And why should I believe you over anyone else?

dood has no idea what he's talking about.

The part of his post that suggests consulting an attorney who specializes in C&F issues is credited. No way should OP be taking the advice of people posting on an internet forum for this issue. Maybe their advice is right. But maybe it's not. And OP needs to know for sure before s/he goes and invests time and money into a law degree.

The only advice I will give OP is to go to a school for the lowest amount of debt possible, especially if the C&F attorney thinks there's even a slight possibility of you not passing the bar. I think this case warrants an even greater degree of debt aversion than normal so that OP doesn't end up with tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt that he can't pay off because he can't doesn't pass the bar.

Magnolia wrote:

thecilent wrote:

uncjtd20 wrote:

dood wrote:lol @ replies. have any of u actually been in OPs situation??

OP: every single response is either irrelevant, pure speculation, or flat out retarded wrong. go see a lawyer who specializes on C&F issues. but in short, u'r most likely fucked for law school, and EVEN IF u are admitted and graduate law school, u'r gonna have hella issues passing C&F, and EVEN IF u pass C&F, no firm or federal agency will hire u. go see a lawyer now.

but blowhard makes a good point: stop drinking malt beverages.

And what exactly makes you such an expert on the subject? I find a lot of what you've said to be incredibly hard to believe. When I take the Bar, I'll be 27, 8 years removed from my last incident. What makes you so sure I'm fucked? And why should I believe you over anyone else?

dood has no idea what he's talking about.

The part of his post that suggests consulting an attorney who specializes in C&F issues is credited. No way should OP be taking the advice of people posting on an internet forum for this issue. Maybe their advice is right. But maybe it's not. And OP needs to know for sure before s/he goes and invests time and money into a law degree.

The only advice I will give OP is to go to a school for the lowest amount of debt possible, especially if the C&F attorney thinks there's even a slight possibility of you not passing the bar. I think this case warrants an even greater degree of debt aversion than normal so that OP doesn't end up with tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt that he can't pay off because he can't doesn't pass the bar.

PleaseHelpThanks wrote:!

blowhard wrote:

PleaseHelpThanks wrote:!

Commenting or providing advice on C&F issues or admission to the bar requires admission to the bar. I'd suggest you delete it.

blowhard wrote:

PleaseHelpThanks wrote:!

Commenting or providing advice on C&F issues or admission to the bar requires admission to the bar. I'd suggest you delete it.

thecilent wrote:

uncjtd20 wrote:

dood wrote:lol @ replies. have any of u actually been in OPs situation??

OP: every single response is either irrelevant, pure speculation, or flat out retarded wrong. go see a lawyer who specializes on C&F issues. but in short, u'r most likely fucked for law school, and EVEN IF u are admitted and graduate law school, u'r gonna have hella issues passing C&F, and EVEN IF u pass C&F, no firm or federal agency will hire u. go see a lawyer now.

but blowhard makes a good point: stop drinking malt beverages.

And what exactly makes you such an expert on the subject? I find a lot of what you've said to be incredibly hard to believe. When I take the Bar, I'll be 27, 8 years removed from my last incident. What makes you so sure I'm fucked? And why should I believe you over anyone else?

dood has no idea what he's talking about.

AreJay711 wrote:I didn't read this thread but it looked good and self righteous. If they were all dismissed it probably won't show up anywhere. Do what you want with that info.

flexityflex86 wrote:

AreJay711 wrote:I didn't read this thread but it looked good and self righteous. If they were all dismissed it probably won't show up anywhere. Do what you want with that info.

Ehh that's still lying brah.