Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

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Denny_Crane2k11
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Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby Denny_Crane2k11 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:20 pm

Despite its ranking (T-23 in the 2011 USNWR), why isn't Indiana-Bloomington on the "top 50 go-to law schools" list in terms of placement in NLJ250 firms?

Does IU-B place most of its graduates in "smaller," midwestern cities with great midlaw prospects (like Indianapolis, St. Louis, etc) or what? How is IU-B ranked 23 despite not placing on that top 50 list? All of the schools around it on the list are in that top 50...

Finally, for someone interested in biglaw, is IU-B at sticker a better choice than a near full scholly to a high tier 2 with ties to a big city (i.e. Temple, SHU, Brooklyn, 'dozo)?

Thanks.

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Veyron
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby Veyron » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:41 pm

Denny_Crane2k11 wrote:Despite its ranking (T-23 in the 2011 USNWR), why isn't Indiana-Bloomington on the "top 50 go-to law schools" list in terms of placement in NLJ250 firms?

Does IU-B place most of its graduates in "smaller," midwestern cities with great midlaw prospects (like Indianapolis, St. Louis, etc) or what? How is IU-B ranked 23 despite not placing on that top 50 list? All of the schools around it on the list are in that top 50...

Finally, for someone interested in biglaw, is IU-B at sticker a better choice than a near full scholly to a high tier 2 with ties to a big city (i.e. Temple, SHU, Brooklyn, 'dozo)?

Thanks.


This is like asking if for someone interested in playing for the NFL, the best choice is a DII college with no scholarship or a DIII college with a near full scholly.

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chrisnashville
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby chrisnashville » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:48 pm

I'm not sure I would attend IU at sticker if I was OOS - OOS tuition is very high, and there is no way to get in-state while you're still in school. That coupled with smaller chances for that BigLaw salary to help pay off those loans, as you've mentioned, would make it very risky.

As I understand it, the markets that IU feeds most of their grads into don't have many NLJ250 firms, unlike some of the less-highly ranked schools on that list. Those schools will give you an increased chance at BigLaw but less portability, generally. So to answer your last question, no.

Once you get past the top 20 or so schools, I wouldn't pay as much attention to #23 vs #30 vs #40, etc. Schools want the higher ranking because it will attract top students (as you'll see when IU's LSAT median jumps next year a point or two.) But the 10% vs. 12% vs 15% chance at BigLaw probably shouldn't be your main guideline for picking a school.

Keep cost of living in mind while you're looking at average income of grads, as most people on here do. $90k in Indianapolis or Louisville or Cincinnati, for example, is roughly equal to $130k in Chicago. Of course if you can't bear to live in any city but Chicago or New York...that doesn't matter much.. and $180k in loans is $180k in loans in any city in the world ;)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:58 pm

IUB is not the best school in its state and it's also not located in the major metropolitan area in state (in fact, another law school - which is also not the best school in the state - is located there).

If you are looking for employment opportunities in the midwest and can't do T14, UIUC, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, WashU, and Ohio State are all more desirable options (despite the rank of some of them in comparison to IUB).

Denny_Crane2k11
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby Denny_Crane2k11 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:08 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:IUB is not the best school in its state and it's also not located in the major metropolitan area in state (in fact, another law school - which is also not the best school in the state - is located there).

If you are looking for employment opportunities in the midwest and can't do T14, UIUC, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, WashU, and Ohio State are all more desirable options (despite the rank of some of them in comparison to IUB).


I'm not necessarily looking for midwest ops (although I was born in Chicago and wouldn't mind returning), but rather just the best biglaw possibilities

if I'm better off at a tier 2 that has connections in big cities like Phila and NY with less debt, then does it make sense to pay sticker (OOS) at IU-B? I don't think it does, but I was curious what others thought. I was also just wondering, in general, how IU-B was ranked that high. They must have a good reputation amongst the other law schools (which, as I understand it, accounts for 25% of the USNWR methodology)

I was just wondering about IU-B in general, but as for my cycle, it's basically sticker OOS at IU-B vs. nearly a full scholly at one of the higher tier 2's connected to NY or Phila.

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RVP11
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:11 pm

The reason IUB has such low BigLaw placement is because the students all self-select into the plentiful MidLaw jobs that exist in Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City, and Ohio.

FiveSermon
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:11 pm

This post somehow assumes USNews rankings has something to do with biglaw placement.

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RVP11
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:13 pm

FiveSermon wrote:This post somehow assumes USNews rankings has something to do with biglaw placement.


TBF it kinda does.

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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:14 pm

RVP11 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:This post somehow assumes USNews rankings has something to do with biglaw placement.


TBF it kinda does.


Very weak correlation tbh. And it's pretty useless past T17. WashU is 20? BC is like 30? BC places 3x more into biglaw.

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RVP11
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:19 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:This post somehow assumes USNews rankings has something to do with biglaw placement.


TBF it kinda does.


Very weak correlation tbh. And it's pretty useless past T17. WashU is 20? BC is like 30? BC places 3x more into biglaw.


36% is not 3x more than 19%.

The T14 are mixed around but are still all in the T15.

The T50 looks a lot like the T50 in USNWR.

Remember there are over 200 law schools out there. You're really nitpicking if you call this a weak correlation.

FiveSermon
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:21 pm

RVP11 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:This post somehow assumes USNews rankings has something to do with biglaw placement.


TBF it kinda does.


Very weak correlation tbh. And it's pretty useless past T17. WashU is 20? BC is like 30? BC places 3x more into biglaw.


36% is not 3x more than 19%.

The T14 are mixed around but are still all in the T15.

The T50 looks a lot like the T50 in USNWR.

Remember there are over 200 law schools out there. You're really nitpicking if you call this a weak correlation.


My bad. Somehow I thought it was 11% lol.

I can't see how you can't say it's anything BUT a weak correlation past the T17. It's not nitpicking...it's just simple math.

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bk1
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:28 pm

Denny_Crane2k11 wrote:Finally, for someone interested in biglaw, is IU-B at sticker a better choice than a near full scholly to a high tier 2 with ties to a big city (i.e. Temple, SHU, Brooklyn, 'dozo)?


Depends on the whether you are an Indiana resident or not, scholarship stipulations to the T2, the specific T2 you are referring to, and whether you would rather be in the area of the T2 or be in Indiana.

What I can say is that IUB at out-of-state sticker is a bad idea or IUB for working somewhere other than Indiana is a bad idea.

Denny_Crane2k11
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby Denny_Crane2k11 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:46 pm

bk1 wrote:
Denny_Crane2k11 wrote:Finally, for someone interested in biglaw, is IU-B at sticker a better choice than a near full scholly to a high tier 2 with ties to a big city (i.e. Temple, SHU, Brooklyn, 'dozo)?


Depends on the whether you are an Indiana resident or not, scholarship stipulations to the T2, the specific T2 you are referring to, and whether you would rather be in the area of the T2 or be in Indiana.

What I can say is that IUB at out-of-state sticker is a bad idea or IUB for working somewhere other than Indiana is a bad idea.


Thanks for the response. I'm OOS, and while I wouldn't mind attending IU-B and living there (family attended IU and some still live around there), I'm interested in biglaw, and I'm thinking that my prospects are better at a t2 connected to a big market (schools that are on that top 50 NLJ250 list) rather than at IU. Moreover, my debt would be about half as much, the students against whom I would be competing at the t2 would--one would think--be weaker, and if biglaw/working on east coast (both of which I want) are more likely, I guess IU-B doesn't make much sense.

Thanks for helping me work this out. Guess I'll withdraw from IU-B

GraniteState
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby GraniteState » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:43 pm

Denny_Crane2k11 wrote:Despite its ranking (T-23 in the 2011 USNWR), why isn't Indiana-Bloomington on the "top 50 go-to law schools" list in terms of placement in NLJ250 firms?

Does IU-B place most of its graduates in "smaller," midwestern cities with great midlaw prospects (like Indianapolis, St. Louis, etc) or what? How is IU-B ranked 23 despite not placing on that top 50 list? All of the schools around it on the list are in that top 50...

Finally, for someone interested in biglaw, is IU-B at sticker a better choice than a near full scholly to a high tier 2 with ties to a big city (i.e. Temple, SHU, Brooklyn, 'dozo)?

Thanks.


Did you actually even take the LSAT or did you just march into the admissions office, say DENNY CRANE, shoot someone with a paintball gun, and get handed a letter of acceptance?

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bk1
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Re: Why no biglaw for IU-B?? Is it worth attending sticker?

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:04 pm

Denny_Crane2k11 wrote:Thanks for the response. I'm OOS, and while I wouldn't mind attending IU-B and living there (family attended IU and some still live around there), I'm interested in biglaw, and I'm thinking that my prospects are better at a t2 connected to a big market (schools that are on that top 50 NLJ250 list) rather than at IU. Moreover, my debt would be about half as much, the students against whom I would be competing at the t2 would--one would think--be weaker, and if biglaw/working on east coast (both of which I want) are more likely, I guess IU-B doesn't make much sense.

Thanks for helping me work this out. Guess I'll withdraw from IU-B


No problem. Since you want the east coast you shouldn't go to IUB. I'd also just realize that at T2's (heck out of most schools other than the top 20 or so) having your sights set on biglaw means you are most likely going to be disappointed so have an idea of a realistic career path outside of biglaw that you would like to pursue in the likely case you don't have the grades to get biglaw out of a T2.




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