TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

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northwood
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby northwood » Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:38 pm

OP do you want to be a lawyer? Would you be happy being a lawyer making 50,000? If so- then go. If you think you will be a lawyer making big bucks, you will not he bappy with the results. Only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer, and dont mind working long hours for not a lot of money in return for your investment.This is not a get rich quick profession for the vast majority of people. Take a year off, re take the lsat and re apply. You may change your mind and do something else. You may decide to go for it. Try to take the emotions out of the decision making process.

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maxm2764
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby maxm2764 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:44 pm

Sandro wrote:
maxm2764 wrote:
Sandro wrote:it doesnt open up a job for you but rather reduces the competition for said jobs.


Exactly. That's what my original post was meant to imply.


You could just say your original post wasnt mean to be truthful, or whatever that senator said.


I think this has gone too far. But your tar, f'ing awesome. Too bad we have to wait another 3 years. :(

TOMaHULK
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby TOMaHULK » Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:25 pm

northwood wrote:OP do you want to be a lawyer? Would you be happy being a lawyer making 50,000? If so- then go. If you think you will be a lawyer making big bucks, you will not he bappy with the results. Only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer, and dont mind working long hours for not a lot of money in return for your investment.This is not a get rich quick profession for the vast majority of people. Take a year off, re take the lsat and re apply. You may change your mind and do something else. You may decide to go for it. Try to take the emotions out of the decision making process.


Yes, I'd like to be an attorney. However, I make nearly 50K a year now. Couple that with my student loan payments and I'd actually be making (net) a lot less. For what, a title? I know one thing for a fact: People don't give a damn how you make money, when you walk into a store to spend it.

I've taken 4 years off. I've taken the LSAT 3 times (seriously). I have had the fortunate opportunity to see friend who went directly to law school after their UG's, graduate and all have moved back home with their parents (not a knock on them, merely a fact). While yes they make more than me, and have a title, I actually net more than they do when you figure in the loan payments per month. If you figured in the amount that they'd be spending on rent/mortage, utilities, etc (which they currently don't pay), I don't think they'd be able to live.

One of these friends has been granted the 10% of income to pay each month towards the loans, but those loans are accruing interest at a higher rate than he's actually paying per month. So there's no paying the things off. Unless, they make more than the minimum payment, which in my experience most people don't (or can't) do.

TOMaHULK
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby TOMaHULK » Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:26 pm

adonai wrote:
TOMaHULK wrote:I feel that it would be foolish to make this decision based on "what ifs"...because until now I really haven't seen a bunch of young lawyer success stories. Right now I've asked for extentions from schools on the deposits. Perhaps I'll defer one acceptance for a year. If in a year I still want to go, and cannot get into a TT school, I'll have that as an option at least.

Looks like TLS hasn't completely steered you away yet.


I'd just like to keep my options open. If I defer at one of these schools until NEXT August, and I can actually save up enough money to cover my first year's tuition...then the student loan debt isn't an issue any longer.

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zonto
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby zonto » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:24 pm

Why don't you also take some time during the next year to improve your LSAT and polish your application? More money to cover cost-of-living and a stronger application could open significantly better doors for you in a year.

TOMaHULK
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby TOMaHULK » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:54 pm

zonto wrote:Why don't you also take some time during the next year to improve your LSAT and polish your application? More money to cover cost-of-living and a stronger application could open significantly better doors for you in a year.


I agree. But with 3 scores on the books, I really don't know if I can better it past my already 11 point increase.

cubswin
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby cubswin » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:58 pm

Lawquacious wrote:Lol how OP does what is often recommended on TLS (doesn't go to law school since TTT and TTTT were apparently only options) and still gets shit for it.


homestyle28 wrote:ITT we learn that no matter what one decides regarding law school, TLS will disagree, and that that decision can generate pages and pages of comments.

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fragged
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby fragged » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:20 am

TOMaHULK wrote:I make nearly 50K a year now. Couple that with my student loan payments and I'd actually be making (net) a lot less. For what, a title? I know one thing for a fact: People don't give a damn how you make money, when you walk into a store to spend it.


I wish people would stop using this argument. It is weak. If there is one thing I have learned in the 13 years of being in the corporate world, it is that no matter how much money you make, you and your skills and your work ethic and your "go getter" attitude and your "thinking out of the box" approach are worthless. Why? Because they are easily replaceable.

Unless you have a specific license which allows you to do something other people cannot do, you are easily replaceable. Simply put, a law degree is just another level of filtration - a degree which gives you something most other people do not have. Are there a lot of lawyers? Yup. But there are even more computer engineers, warehouse supervisors and used car salesmen.

Is it worth it? Depends on your specific situation. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. But if you do manage to live modestly and pay off that law school debt, what would you rather be - a lawyer who paid his loans off or a supermarket night-shift manager who never took the loans out in the first place?

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Mce252
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby Mce252 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:56 am

your work ethic and your "go getter" attitude and your "thinking out of the box" approach are worthless. Why? Because they are easily replaceable.


This is true in any occupation.


Are there a lot of lawyers? Yup. But there are even more computer engineers, warehouse supervisors and used car salesmen.



This is a bad example. Nobody cares how many lawyers there are out there. What matters is how many jobs are available. Legal jobs are completely dependent upon the success of other parts of the market. If you're trying to make an argument for the legal field being a good way to sustain employment, it would be much more fitting in an industry where it's a lot easier to create your own wealth. Attorneys are dependent on the needs of others.


what would you rather be - a lawyer who paid his loans off or a supermarket night-shift manager who never took the loans out in the first place?


Many law students had bright careers ahead of them without even having to attend law school. The decision to go to law school will rarely be as simple as the ultimatum you have given.

TOMaHULK
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby TOMaHULK » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:49 pm

fragged wrote:
TOMaHULK wrote:I make nearly 50K a year now. Couple that with my student loan payments and I'd actually be making (net) a lot less. For what, a title? I know one thing for a fact: People don't give a damn how you make money, when you walk into a store to spend it.


I wish people would stop using this argument. It is weak. If there is one thing I have learned in the 13 years of being in the corporate world, it is that no matter how much money you make, you and your skills and your work ethic and your "go getter" attitude and your "thinking out of the box" approach are worthless. Why? Because they are easily replaceable.

Unless you have a specific license which allows you to do something other people cannot do, you are easily replaceable. Simply put, a law degree is just another level of filtration - a degree which gives you something most other people do not have. Are there a lot of lawyers? Yup. But there are even more computer engineers, warehouse supervisors and used car salesmen.

Is it worth it? Depends on your specific situation. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. But if you do manage to live modestly and pay off that law school debt, what would you rather be - a lawyer who paid his loans off or a supermarket night-shift manager who never took the loans out in the first place?



While I respect your input, and point of view, let me say that I've worked in corporate America for 5 years now as well and I've quickly learned that money is RARELY related to the education or degree one has obtained. In the company's that I've worked for, the money makers are the people in sales (sales managers, etc). The JD's are making a lot less than some (most) of the sales managers. Of course this is a small pool sample (the companies I worked for).

How many attorneys do you know, who have taken 150k+ in student loans and have actually Paid them off? I know several (all of my attorney friends actually) whom have taken at least this much and not one of them do more than make the minimum monthly payment (which is challenging), and have yet to even tap into the principles on those loans. These people did not go to TTT or TTTT schools, but private schools none-the-less. Also, I really don't hear of them attempting to pay off these loans. More of a "pay the minimum montly payments for the rest of my life" type of attitude is observed. True some may be living above their means, however, others simply are making pennies.

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zonto
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby zonto » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:34 pm

Are student loans the next bubble like real estate was? People also bit off more than they could chew with their subprime mortgages.

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fragged
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby fragged » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:40 pm

I understand where you're coming from, and I respect your decision. But I think everyone's results will vary. If you are good in sales, you will likely do better (financially) than many attorneys. However, if you aren't good in sales, you will likely be in some sort of operational or technical role. Unless you are the smartest guy in the room, it is difficult to shine in a technical position. As far as operations goes, I have no idea. I wish you luck in your endeavors - hopefully we will all be content with our decisions 10, 15, 20 years from now...

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Mce252
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby Mce252 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:40 pm

zonto wrote:Are student loans the next bubble like real estate was? People also bit off more than they could chew with their subprime mortgages.



This is off topic but the answer is no. No one is repackaging and selling student loans like they do in the housing market.

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fragged
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby fragged » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:07 pm

Mce252 wrote:No one is repackaging and selling student loans like they do in the housing market.


Not yet... :)

scammedhard
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby scammedhard » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:26 pm

Mce252 wrote:
zonto wrote:Are student loans the next bubble like real estate was? People also bit off more than they could chew with their subprime mortgages.



This is off topic but the answer is no. No one is repackaging and selling student loans like they do in the housing market.

Repackaging and selling loans is NOT a prerequisite for bubbles.

TOMaHULK
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby TOMaHULK » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:37 pm

zonto wrote:Are student loans the next bubble like real estate was? People also bit off more than they could chew with their subprime mortgages.


I watched a program on tv the other night about student loans being the next bubble to bust, but they were mainly speaking about online degree mills (i.e. Phoenix, Argosy, Devry, etc). In my opinion, TTTT schools are degree mills mainly for profit as well. Of course I say this as someone which only had TTT and TTTT acceptances as their options. Sad, but I'm trying to be logical and leave my ego at the door. :roll:

cubswin
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby cubswin » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:58 pm

TOMaHULK wrote:
zonto wrote:Are student loans the next bubble like real estate was? People also bit off more than they could chew with their subprime mortgages.


I watched a program on tv the other night about student loans being the next bubble to bust, but they were mainly speaking about online degree mills (i.e. Phoenix, Argosy, Devry, etc). In my opinion, TTTT schools are degree mills mainly for profit as well. Of course I say this as someone which only had TTT and TTTT acceptances as their options. Sad, but I'm trying to be logical and leave my ego at the door. :roll:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJl0XuDKSjc

TOMaHULK
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Re: TLS may very well have saved me 150K+ in debt. Thank You

Postby TOMaHULK » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:52 pm

cubswin wrote:
TOMaHULK wrote:
zonto wrote:Are student loans the next bubble like real estate was? People also bit off more than they could chew with their subprime mortgages.


I watched a program on tv the other night about student loans being the next bubble to bust, but they were mainly speaking about online degree mills (i.e. Phoenix, Argosy, Devry, etc). In my opinion, TTTT schools are degree mills mainly for profit as well. Of course I say this as someone which only had TTT and TTTT acceptances as their options. Sad, but I'm trying to be logical and leave my ego at the door. :roll:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJl0XuDKSjc


LMAO! :lol: I love that original commerical with the guy giving advice with the tilted hat.




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