Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

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BruceWayne
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:08 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:People want biglaw because it pays big bucks and it's "prestigious". Plain and simple. There's nothing wrong with that but that's why people want it.


The "prestigous" part is less about bragging on TLS or using your firm as a line to pick up girls though. If you want to get a good in-house job, starting out in biglaw gives you a tremendous advantage.


I've been searching my post to find out where I said any of this. My point is that people want big law because it pays a lot of money and it's difficult to get. That's why most law students do everything they do. I'm surprised that people are so defensive about admitting that.




dkt4 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
LOL no and no to both of the bolded.

1. I'm not sure what you mean by "good PI" but based off of what this board considers good you probably mean DOJ/working as an AUSA at a USAO. They have MUCH better hours than biglaw. It's not even close. They don't even work on Columbus and President's Day--- not to mention job satisfaction amongst people who work for main DOJ and at the USAO's is much higher than biglaw. That's one of the reasons it's hard to get many of the spots; unlike biglaw people don't leave these positions nearly as frequently.

2. Many government agencies hire directly from law school. Particularly the so called "non prestigious" one's. And DOJ does they just prefer a clerkship first. And considering that many of these big firm jobs people are pining for require such high GPAs from top schools, that's not that different in terms of selectivity.

People want biglaw because it pays big bucks and it's "prestigious". Plain and simple. There's nothing wrong with that but that's why people want it.


so, like, 90% of this is wrong.


Go ahead and show me that 90 percent again.

http://www.justice.gov/oarm/arm/hp/hpsalary.htm#g

Desert Fox wrote:In before Bruce Wayne shows a pic of his roommate and pretends to be him.


Either TLS lingo has really gotten complicated or you're confusing me with another poster.


bk1 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:2. Many government agencies hire directly from law school. Particularly the so called "non prestigious" one's. And DOJ does they just prefer a clerkship first. And considering that many of these big firm jobs people are pining for require such high GPAs from top schools, that's not that different in terms of selectivity.


Seriously, the example you used was something that less than 10% of T14 grads even get and then go on to say that it is not that different from biglaw in terms of selectivity?

You sir need to hand me some of that fine shit you're smoking cause it must be goooooooood.


What the hell are you talking about "less than 10 percent of top 14 grads get"? 10 percent at each of MVPB alone get fed clerkships. About a quarter each at each of H and S and something like 30 percent at Yale. The reality is that getting a big law job has gotten really competitive--believe it or not. My point wasn't that they're exactly equivalent (as evidenced by my emphasis on the top biglaw jobs and not biglaw jobs in general) But rather that compared to a lot of the firm jobs that TLS posters are pining for they're pretty comparable. Really if you can get a job at a lot of these V10 firms that people talk about you can probably get a fed clerkship somewhere. The bottom line is that people like biglaw because of the big bucks; plain and simple.

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bk1
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:18 pm

BruceWayne wrote:What the hell are you talking about "less than 10 percent of top 14 grads get"? 10 percent at each of MVPB alone get fed clerkships. About a quarter each at each of H and S and something like 30 percent at Yale. The reality is that getting a big law job has gotten really competitive--believe it or not. My point wasn't that they're exactly equivalent (as evidenced by my emphasis on the top biglaw jobs and not biglaw jobs in general) But rather that compared to a lot of the firm jobs that TLS posters are pining for they're pretty comparable. Really if you can get a job at a lot of these V10 firms that people talk about you can probably get a fed clerkship somewhere. The bottom line is that people like biglaw because of the big bucks; plain and simple.


You didn't actually emphasize "top biglaw jobs." Nice try on the bullshit though. Biglaw is competitive, but biglaw and A3's aren't even close to comparable. Nobody was talking about V10's, not even you in your first post.

As for A3 percentages, I'm pretty sure that approximately 10% of the T14 getting A3's is about right. Sue me if it's actually closer to 12%. (2009 data: http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/f3b8e2556b.png)

Your anti-biglaw shtick is really old, repetitive, and makes you seem like you're frothing at the mouth every time someone posts about it. And this is coming from someone who isn't particularly enamored with biglaw.

09042014
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:23 pm

Most people at V5 cannot even get a A3 clerkship.

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glitched
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby glitched » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:45 pm

Desert Fox wrote:All the reasons big law sounds miserable exist in shit law, and good PI. Long hours and stress aren't just a big law thing. It's a profession wide thing.

Also big law is like the law version of the medical residency. It opens doors. It's one of the few job types that really trains lawyers at an entry level. Most government agencies don't hire direct from law school. Even PI orgs like a couple years in big law.

It also has most of the interesting private sector work. Do people really want to go into law to have a career litigating grocery store accidents?

But really models and bottles.


is this true? i've just been reading about how it is impossible these days to make partner and that kind of worries me bc i don't know really have a plan for my life past 7 years working biglaw and i'm trying to get a sense of what to do.
Last edited by glitched on Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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glitched
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby glitched » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:47 pm

whoops. clicked quote instead of edit.

FiveSermon
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby FiveSermon » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:48 pm

glitched wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:All the reasons big law sounds miserable exist in shit law, and good PI. Long hours and stress aren't just a big law thing. It's a profession wide thing.

Also big law is like the law version of the medical residency. It opens doors. It's one of the few job types that really trains lawyers at an entry level. Most government agencies don't hire direct from law school. Even PI orgs like a couple years in big law.

It also has most of the interesting private sector work. Do people really want to go into law to have a career litigating grocery store accidents?

But really models and bottles.


is this true? i've just been reading about how it is impossible these days to make partner and that kind of worries me bc i don't know really have a plan for my life past 7 years working biglaw and i'm trying to get a sense of what to do.


In house.

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Veyron
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby Veyron » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:53 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
glitched wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:All the reasons big law sounds miserable exist in shit law, and good PI. Long hours and stress aren't just a big law thing. It's a profession wide thing.

Also big law is like the law version of the medical residency. It opens doors. It's one of the few job types that really trains lawyers at an entry level. Most government agencies don't hire direct from law school. Even PI orgs like a couple years in big law.

It also has most of the interesting private sector work. Do people really want to go into law to have a career litigating grocery store accidents?

But really models and bottles.


is this true? i've just been reading about how it is impossible these days to make partner and that kind of worries me bc i don't know really have a plan for my life past 7 years working biglaw and i'm trying to get a sense of what to do.


In house.


I see misery in your future.

FiveSermon
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby FiveSermon » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:54 pm

Veyron wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
glitched wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:All the reasons big law sounds miserable exist in shit law, and good PI. Long hours and stress aren't just a big law thing. It's a profession wide thing.

Also big law is like the law version of the medical residency. It opens doors. It's one of the few job types that really trains lawyers at an entry level. Most government agencies don't hire direct from law school. Even PI orgs like a couple years in big law.

It also has most of the interesting private sector work. Do people really want to go into law to have a career litigating grocery store accidents?

But really models and bottles.


is this true? i've just been reading about how it is impossible these days to make partner and that kind of worries me bc i don't know really have a plan for my life past 7 years working biglaw and i'm trying to get a sense of what to do.


In house.


I see misery in your future.


Duh.

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minnbills
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby minnbills » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:21 pm

I have yet to meet an in-house lawyer who wasn't at least content with his job. I have yet to meet a biglaw lawyer who is happy though.

Granted I have a pool of maybe 6 people to work with.

FiveSermon
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby FiveSermon » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:22 pm

minnbills wrote:I have yet to meet an in-house lawyer who wasn't at least content with his job. I have yet to meet a biglaw lawyer who is happy though.

Granted I have a pool of maybe 6 people to work with.


Veyron was probably pointing out that getting an in house job is difficult.

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beachbum
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby beachbum » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:36 pm

Can you all elaborate on the difficulty of getting an in-house job out of Biglaw? I've spoken with several current and former in-house attorneys who made the jump from Biglaw, and they didn't make it sound particularly difficult. I'm coming from a secondary market with a pretty low concentration of big firms though, so things could be different elsewhere.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:37 pm

bk1 wrote:You didn't actually emphasize "top biglaw jobs." Nice try on the bullshit though. Biglaw is competitive, but biglaw and A3's aren't even close to comparable. Nobody was talking about V10's, not even you in your first post.

As for A3 percentages, I'm pretty sure that approximately 10% of the T14 getting A3's is about right. Sue me if it's actually closer to 12%. (2009 data: http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/f3b8e2556b.png)

Your anti-biglaw shtick is really old, repetitive, and makes you seem like you're frothing at the mouth every time someone posts about it. And this is coming from someone who isn't particularly enamored with biglaw.


Are you are virgin (rhetorical question)? Because you sure sound like it when you use phrases like "frothing at the mouth" etc. when you hear someone say that people go to biglaw because of the money. My guess is that you plan on using biglaw to get your first kiss from a woman or something.

And lol at anti-biglaw schtick. My whole point, and what I repeated several times, as have many others in this thread, is that people go into big law for the big bucks. Nothing more nothing less. If you think that qualifies as "anti biglaw schtick" you may not like--ironically enough--a lot of people who go into biglaw, because many go into for--wait for it--the money. Hell that's why I'm still contemplating it to an extent.

Lol only on TLS would someone respond to "people like to go into biglaw for the money" with something like your post. Then again you do have over 9000 posts so I'm not sure why I'm surprised.
Last edited by BruceWayne on Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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The Valkyrie
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby The Valkyrie » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:39 pm

bk1 wrote:
The Valkyrie wrote:How large would a firm like this be? Obvi there's no hard an fast rule, just wondering what a typical size might be


--LinkRemoved--

This doesn't take into account how these attorneys are spread across several offices.



That is a list of big law firms. I was asking about "litigation boutiques "

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Ty Webb
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby Ty Webb » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:45 pm

Susman Godfrey; Quinn Emmanuel.

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bk1
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:50 pm

The Valkyrie wrote:That is a list of big law firms. I was asking about "litigation boutiques "


Oh my bad. I completely misread your post.

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bk1
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:52 pm

BruceWayne wrote:Are you are virgin (rhetorical question)? Because you sure sound like it when you use phrases like "frothing at the mouth" etc. when you hear someone say that people go to biglaw because of the money. My guess is that you plan on using biglaw to get your first kiss from a woman or something.

And lol at anti-biglaw schtick. My whole point, and what I repeated several times, as have many others in this thread, is that people go into big law for the big bucks. Nothing more nothing less. If you think that qualifies as "anti biglaw schtick" you may not like--ironically enough--a lot of people who go into biglaw, because many go into for--wait for it--the money. Hell that's why I'm still contemplating it to an extent.

Lol only on TLS would someone respond to "people like to go into biglaw for the money" with something like your post. Then again you do have over 9000 posts so I'm not sure why I'm surprised.


Calling someone out as a virgin and having a high post count... on the internet?! Your originality slays me.

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The Valkyrie
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby The Valkyrie » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:52 pm

bk1 wrote:
The Valkyrie wrote:That is a list of big law firms. I was asking about "litigation boutiques "


Oh my bad. I completely misread your post.


No big, I should have quoted

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introversional
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby introversional » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:53 pm

Because this is America, and bigger is better, with everything.

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beachbum
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby beachbum » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:54 pm

introversional wrote:Because this is America, and bigger is better, with everything.


Ya damn right. 8)

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The Valkyrie
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby The Valkyrie » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:55 pm

introversional wrote:Because this is America, and bigger is better, with everything.

Far out.

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glitched
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby glitched » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:57 pm

sooo... whats a good strategy for people who don't make partner? i'm being serious here.


i put the strike in before clever hits yet again on tls.

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The Valkyrie
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby The Valkyrie » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:00 pm

1. Have a couple drinks

2. Get another job that you want

3. ?????

4. PROFIT!

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romothesavior
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:00 pm

1. Money. And I don't just mean "models and bottles," because I may never get to that point and I may not want to be a biglaw lifer. I just mean paying off my debt quickly and giving myself a small head start on financial stability. Also, if you work in biglaw, your post-biglaw salary is typically going to be higher if you go to another private firm.

2. Exit Options. Biglaw opens more doors to people who are a few years out than most other jobs. Sure, there is the drawback of not getting much courtroom/client exposure early on at a big firm, but most employers will know that you were talented enough to get biglaw and it will still look really good on your resume. It just opens doors.

3. Prestige. A few attorneys I have talked with have said that having biglaw on your resume and in your employment history gives you a bit more street cred. It may be a superficial thing, and it may not be a big boost, but they've said that it is impressive to say "I worked for X firm for 3 years" because those who have also done it will respect it, and those who didn't do it most likely wish they had. This is probably even more true in my small market than in others because we have only a limited handful of big firms and they are so head and shoulders above the rest in prestige and recognition.

4. OCI. In the short-term, it will make things a hell of a lot easier to get a job with a firm that hires me as a 2L and gives me a permanent offer than it will be for me to have to hustle and network for two more years, then take the bar and hopefully land something after that.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:04 pm

bk1 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:Are you are virgin (rhetorical question)? Because you sure sound like it when you use phrases like "frothing at the mouth" etc. when you hear someone say that people go to biglaw because of the money. My guess is that you plan on using biglaw to get your first kiss from a woman or something.

And lol at anti-biglaw schtick. My whole point, and what I repeated several times, as have many others in this thread, is that people go into big law for the big bucks. Nothing more nothing less. If you think that qualifies as "anti biglaw schtick" you may not like--ironically enough--a lot of people who go into biglaw, because many go into for--wait for it--the money. Hell that's why I'm still contemplating it to an extent.

Lol only on TLS would someone respond to "people like to go into biglaw for the money" with something like your post. Then again you do have over 9000 posts so I'm not sure why I'm surprised.


Calling someone out as a virgin and having a high post count... on the internet?! Your originality slays me.


LMAO. All you had to say was no I'm not; but your response does make things pretty clear. In all fairness biglaw should be able to get you that first kiss. :lol:

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BruceWayne
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Re: Why are so many people on TLS obsessed with Biglaw?

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:06 pm

romothesavior wrote:1. Money. And I don't just mean "models and bottles," because I may never get to that point and I may not want to be a biglaw lifer. I just mean paying off my debt quickly and giving myself a small head start on financial stability. Also, if you work in biglaw, your post-biglaw salary is typically going to be higher if you go to another private firm.

2. Exit Options. Biglaw opens more doors to people who are a few years out than most other jobs. Sure, there is the drawback of not getting much courtroom/client exposure early on at a big firm, but most employers will know that you were talented enough to get biglaw and it will still look really good on your resume. It just opens doors.

3. Prestige. A few attorneys I have talked with have said that having biglaw on your resume and in your employment history gives you a bit more street cred. It may be a superficial thing, and it may not be a big boost, but they've said that it is impressive to say "I worked for X firm for 3 years" because those who have also done it will respect it, and those who didn't do it most likely wish they had. This is probably even more true in my small market than in others because we have only a limited handful of big firms and they are so head and shoulders above the rest in prestige and recognition.

4. OCI. In the short-term, it will make things a hell of a lot easier to get a job with a firm that hires me as a 2L and gives me a permanent offer than it will be for me to have to hustle and network for two more years, then take the bar and hopefully land something after that.


I'm not sure why people are so adamantly fighting this response. It's the truth and there's nothing wrong with it.




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