Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

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taxguy
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Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby taxguy » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:51 am

I just had an interesting conversation with two law school admission deans about the LSAT. We were discussing why it is used so strongly. Let's see if you can guess the main reason law schools put such a great emphasis on the LSAT and the undergrad GPA ( to a lessor extent) and pretty much ignore all post college activity. I will give you a trick question.

The main reason that the LSAT and GPA ( although slightly less a factor) is used in law school admission is:

A. Due to the great corelation between LSAT scores/GPA and law school performance.
B. Bragging rights to law firms so that more students get hired from those schools.
C. There really isn't a good way to determine who is qualified since schools have different majors and grading systems.Thus, It provides a standarized way to compare applicants.
D. It is required by the Bar Association.
E. Higher LSAT and admission standards encourage more alumni to donate money.

Think about each factor before you check the real, main reason.
Answer:



Although a bit of all of the above, the main reason is...drum roll.....
The Law School rankings! Yes, rankings! Every law school wants to raise their rankings desparately. Admission factors represent about 45% of the rankings,which is why the ranking change so much from year to year among mid tier schools. The average LSAT score has the biggest impact at 20%. The average GPA has a slightly lessor impact at 15% ( I think), which is why the GPA isn't as strongly weighted as the LSAT. Acceptance rate percentages is about 5%., which is why admission folks encourage applications for admission even if the student has little chance of success.

NOTE: I am not the one who said this. In fact, I would have never guessed this. This was told to me privately by two admission deans.

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hyunseoki
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby hyunseoki » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:53 am

What rock have you been under?

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Ginj
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby Ginj » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:59 am

hyunseoki wrote:What rock have you been under?

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robotclubmember
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby robotclubmember » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:27 am

Ginj wrote:
hyunseoki wrote:What rock have you been under?


This.

Everyone knows that this is true. That being said, the LSAT is not invalid. Getting a high score on the LSAT says a lot about you as a person I think. It suggest that you either have an innately strong mind for logical and analytical thought processes, or that you have a lot of grit and determination in building those skills up. If you want to go into law, I think one of the best financial decisions you can make is prepping for the LSAT. A lot of students who would get a 150 with no prep could easily boost to 165 with 300 hours of prep (or higher). The kind of school that would admit you with a 150 is the kind that would give you a full ride with a 165. And if you're such a chump that you haven't figured out that you can save as much as $100,000 or more in tuition with 300 hours of work, then you don't deserve to be in law school frankly. It would take most people in our age bracket 3 years working 2,000 hours a year to earn $100K after taxes. 6,000 hours and three years, versus 300 hours of studying. The LSAT is a huge loophole. It can negate so many other factors in your life. A high LSAT can take away from the fact that after college you worked at a Starbucks and nothing more. And a low LSAT can negate the fact that you have the most amazing softs in the world (including being a CPA/CFP, writing a book and being captain of the ultimate frisbee team).

The more direct and asshole-ish comment is, if your son is a certified financial planner, why has it been so hard for him to figure out the ROI on a mere 300 hours of prep time for the LSAT?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:33 am

Many, maybe most, law schools buy high LSATs primarily to increase USNews rankings. Indiana has offered $120,000 over three years to those with LSAT scores of 166, 167 or 168 even though their undergrad GPAs were below 3.0 with some in the 2.65 to 2.7 range.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:46 am

We get it. Your son bombed the LSAT, you think he's a special snowflake, and now you are on a medieval crusade to denounce it as a reasonable source of assessing a student's potential. The sliding scale of degree difficulty and academic competition between students at Harvard as compared to your community college makes it a ridiculously subjective and difficult endeavor to weed through. The LSAT provides a more objective (regardless of what you think of it, it is more objective than GPA, plain and simple) means of analyzing an applicant against his competitors.

robotclubmember wrote:
The more direct and asshole-ish comment is, if your son is a certified financial planner, why has it been so hard for him to figure out the ROI on a mere 300 hours of prep time for the LSAT?


Preach it, brother.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:51 am

FeelTheHeat wrote:We get it. Your son bombed the LSAT, you think he's a special snowflake, and now you are on a medieval crusade to denounce it as a reasonable source of assessing a student's potential. The sliding scale of degree difficulty and academic competition between students at Harvard as compared to your community college makes it a ridiculously subjective and difficult endeavor to weed through. The LSAT provides a more objective (regardless of what you think of it, it is more objective than GPA, plain and simple) means of analyzing an applicant against his competitors.

robotclubmember wrote:
The more direct and asshole-ish comment is, if your son is a certified financial planner, why has it been so hard for him to figure out the ROI on a mere 300 hours of prep time for the LSAT?


Preach it, brother.

I thought his son was an accountant? TAXGUY PLEASE TELL ME MORE ABOUT THIS SPECIAL SON OF YOURS.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby robotclubmember » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:43 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:I thought his son was an accountant? TAXGUY PLEASE TELL ME MORE ABOUT THIS SPECIAL SON OF YOURS.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=150903&p=4204808#p4204808

Sandro
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby Sandro » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:33 pm

i love tax guy ! preach it brother. each of the roughly 2k+ applicants to most law schools should be evaluated for admission based on their extra curriculars. There would be no problem differentiating between candidates as it is very easy to determine what internship/job/experience is better than the other and the end result would be the best and brightest students always getting in, especially if they played ultimate frisbee.

xyzbca
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby xyzbca » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:37 pm

How bad was his son's LSAT score?

firemed
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby firemed » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:51 pm

Ginj wrote:
hyunseoki wrote:What rock have you been under?



Also:


xyzbca wrote:How bad was his son's LSAT score?


Also:

If my dad (who is obscenely proud of me to the point of being an embarrassment to me sometimes) was on TLS instead of me, extolling my virtues and coincidentally highlighting my faults... all the while talking to deans... well, I would probably die.

This reminds me of the parents I met at an ASD... who were there without their son. Why the hell would you send your parents to an ASD instead of you?

09042014
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby 09042014 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:55 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Many, maybe most, law schools buy high LSATs primarily to increase USNews rankings. Indiana has offered $120,000 over three years to those with LSAT scores of 166, 167 or 168 even though their undergrad GPAs were below 3.0 with some in the 2.65 to 2.7 range.


Fuck those guys I got 30K with a 176.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:58 pm

You were one year too early & your LSAT was too high.

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Veyron
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby Veyron » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:02 pm

Well whatever reason it is, I'm glad. I don't want a bunch of dimwits running around with J.D.s from respectable schools.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:07 pm

oh god, not taxguy again

jeremysen
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby jeremysen » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:07 pm

not feeding not feeding
Edit again: holy crap, all of taxguy's posts are about the LSAT's deficiencies
Last edited by jeremysen on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:09 pm

jeremysen wrote:
taxguy wrote:Admission factors represent about 45% of the rankings,which is why the ranking change so much from year to year among mid tier schools. The average LSAT score has the biggest impact at 20%. The average GPA has a slightly lessor impact at 15% ( I think), which is why the GPA isn't as strongly weighted as the LSAT.

The deans quoted those percentages? I was under the impression that admissions = 10%?


QUIT FEEDING QUIT FEEDING

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:24 pm

xyzbca wrote:How bad was his son's LSAT score?

125, you heard it here first

(permitted because countertrolling)

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Veyron
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby Veyron » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:27 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
xyzbca wrote:How bad was his son's LSAT score?

125, you heard it here first

(permitted because countertrolling)


The real score was bad enough. No need to troll.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:28 pm

taxguy wrote:
The average GPA has a slightly lessor impact at 15% ( I think), which is why the GPA isn't as strongly weighted as the LSAT.


well at least we know he's not lying about being a tax guy

FiveSermon
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:36 pm

I love taxguy.

AztecaRex
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby AztecaRex » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:03 pm

This would be far more entertaining if I believed it to be true. Does anyone actually believe taxguy to be an overly zealous father hellbent on proving that ultimate frisbee trumps lsat score as a predictor of one's law school success rather than the obvious troll that he is?

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Veyron
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby Veyron » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:08 pm

AztecaRex wrote:This would be far more entertaining if I believed it to be true. Does anyone actually believe taxguy to be an overly zealous father hellbent on proving that ultimate frisbee trumps lsat score as a predictor of one's law school success rather than the obvious troll that he is?


I WANT to believe. Don't tell me theres no santa!

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Patriot1208
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:18 pm

Veyron wrote:
AztecaRex wrote:This would be far more entertaining if I believed it to be true. Does anyone actually believe taxguy to be an overly zealous father hellbent on proving that ultimate frisbee trumps lsat score as a predictor of one's law school success rather than the obvious troll that he is?


I WANT to believe.

AztecaRex
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Re: Why the LSAT is so important for law school admissions

Postby AztecaRex » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:20 pm

Veyron wrote:
AztecaRex wrote:This would be far more entertaining if I believed it to be true. Does anyone actually believe taxguy to be an overly zealous father hellbent on proving that ultimate frisbee trumps lsat score as a predictor of one's law school success rather than the obvious troll that he is?


I WANT to believe. Don't tell me theres no santa!


Trust me, I want to believe as well. But this guy isn't on the "huh, how come Santa gives all the rich kids better toys?" scale of believability. He's on the "radioactive space mutants are working with vampire cathayans to usurp the Brtitish throne" scale of believability.




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