The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

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dabbadon8
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby dabbadon8 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:12 pm

afc1910 wrote:So what's the consensus on LEEWS? People on TLS seem to have a love/hate relationship with it. Is the method suggested by LEEWS similar to GTM? Does it make sense to read GTM and go through LEEWS and see which one works best for me?


Most importantly is the $175 worth it?

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TJISMYHERO
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby TJISMYHERO » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:41 pm

TTTag

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FlanAl
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby FlanAl » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:07 pm

I'm going to immediately start gunning

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beidoun
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby beidoun » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:10 pm

tag

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thecilent
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby thecilent » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:10 pm

Lol @ this thread.

You people have no idea how to gun. Can't wait to pwn everyone

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:12 pm

FlanAl wrote:I'm going to immediately start gunning

Too late, you'll never catch up to the true gunners :)

dakatz
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:15 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
FlanAl wrote:I'm going to immediately start gunning

Too late, you'll never catch up to the true gunners :)


I think the true gunners are the ones who read this thread and laugh at how the majority of smart people get misled enough to think that 0L substantive prep is the way to go. While people blindly run to supplements and such, the real smart ones are out actually getting an advantage.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:33 pm

dakatz wrote:
BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
FlanAl wrote:I'm going to immediately start gunning

Too late, you'll never catch up to the true gunners :)


I think the true gunners are the ones who read this thread and laugh at how the majority of smart people get misled enough to think that 0L substantive prep is the way to go. While people blindly run to supplements and such, the real smart ones are out actually getting an advantage.

tl;dr

dakatz
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:35 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
dakatz wrote:
BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
FlanAl wrote:I'm going to immediately start gunning

Too late, you'll never catch up to the true gunners :)


I think the true gunners are the ones who read this thread and laugh at how the majority of smart people get misled enough to think that 0L substantive prep is the way to go. While people blindly run to supplements and such, the real smart ones are out actually getting an advantage.

tl;dr


If you think that is long, you should see some of the true novels I've written on this forum in the past.

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northwood
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby northwood » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:37 pm

gunning is weak

im gonna be shooting laser guided missles on everyone- TAKE NO PRISONERS!!!!!!!

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BruceWayne
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:43 pm

dakatz wrote:I think the true gunners are the ones who read this thread and laugh at how the majority of smart people get misled enough to think that 0L substantive prep is the way to go. While people blindly run to supplements and such, the real smart ones are out actually getting an advantage.


Before everyone nuts themselves with this idea that it's a bad idea/hurtful to do substantive prep before law school and that going in "fresh" is somehow the best thing to do (since TLS says so); 2 of the people at my top 10 with some of the highest GPA's in the entire class taught themselves torts before they reached law school. They raped everyone else who took the subject with them. Including those who came in "fresh" and relaxed. And frankly a lot more students who do well take this route than TLS suggests. But because the site is all about trying to come off as smart as possible (read trying to push the idea that some people just magically get high grades with moderate to little effort as a result of "natural intelligence") they act as if it's an uncommon thing.

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Emma.
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby Emma. » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:49 pm

Farnsworth on Ks is a slog. I'd definitely recommend something like Chirelstein if you really must waste your time doing 0L prep.

aliarrow
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby aliarrow » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:55 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
dakatz wrote:I think the true gunners are the ones who read this thread and laugh at how the majority of smart people get misled enough to think that 0L substantive prep is the way to go. While people blindly run to supplements and such, the real smart ones are out actually getting an advantage.


Before everyone nuts themselves with this idea that it's a bad idea/hurtful to do substantive prep before law school and that going in "fresh" is somehow the best thing to do (since TLS says so); 2 of the people at my top 10 with some of the highest GPA's in the entire class taught themselves torts before they reached law school. They raped everyone else who took the subject with them. Including those who came in "fresh" and relaxed. And frankly a lot more students who do well take this route than TLS suggests. But because the site is all about trying to come off as smart as possible (read trying to push the idea that some people just magically get high grades with moderate to little effort as a result of "natural intelligence") they act as if it's an uncommon thing.


Just last week or so there was a #1 at a T30 advocating summer prep.

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thecilent
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby thecilent » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:56 pm

aliarrow wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
dakatz wrote:I think the true gunners are the ones who read this thread and laugh at how the majority of smart people get misled enough to think that 0L substantive prep is the way to go. While people blindly run to supplements and such, the real smart ones are out actually getting an advantage.


Before everyone nuts themselves with this idea that it's a bad idea/hurtful to do substantive prep before law school and that going in "fresh" is somehow the best thing to do (since TLS says so); 2 of the people at my top 10 with some of the highest GPA's in the entire class taught themselves torts before they reached law school. They raped everyone else who took the subject with them. Including those who came in "fresh" and relaxed. And frankly a lot more students who do well take this route than TLS suggests. But because the site is all about trying to come off as smart as possible (read trying to push the idea that some people just magically get high grades with moderate to little effort as a result of "natural intelligence") they act as if it's an uncommon thing.

Link?
Just last week or so there was a #1 at a T30 advocating summer prep.

dakatz
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:58 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
dakatz wrote:I think the true gunners are the ones who read this thread and laugh at how the majority of smart people get misled enough to think that 0L substantive prep is the way to go. While people blindly run to supplements and such, the real smart ones are out actually getting an advantage.


Before everyone nuts themselves with this idea that it's a bad idea/hurtful to do substantive prep before law school and that going in "fresh" is somehow the best thing to do (since TLS says so); 2 of the people at my top 10 with some of the highest GPA's in the entire class taught themselves torts before they reached law school. They raped everyone else who took the subject with them. Including those who came in "fresh" and relaxed. And frankly a lot more students who do well take this route than TLS suggests. But because the site is all about trying to come off as smart as possible (read trying to push the idea that some people just magically get high grades with moderate to little effort as a result of "natural intelligence") they act as if it's an uncommon thing.


You clearly misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I've never said "dude, just relax during the summer and come in fresh". There are a TON of things one can do the summer before law school to give themselves an advantage over their peers. Substantive prep is very low on that list. I never said it will always hurt and can't possibly help. All I said is that, while tons of "smart" kids grab for prep books, the real smart ones are the ones who distinguish themselves and do what will truly give them an advantage (and no, that doesn't mean sitting around and drinking, if that is what you assume I meant).

I've said it a million times, but law school is very counter-intuitive. For example, people who didn't do well first semester said "I gotta work harder this semester". WRONG. They need to work smarter, not harder. And this often involves working LESS than before, since you are more efficient and only studying the right things. And thats just one example where the typical smart person thinks that something is obvious and intuitive, yet the reality is the opposite.

These 0L's should be learning about law school exams, sprucing up resumes, making cover letter templates, calling alumni of their schools and networking as much as possible and as often as possible, becoming better and faster at typing, taking time to reflect on themselves and not going into law school blindly, reading every "success in law school" thread they can find to gather all the helpful info available, etc. These are the things that come before substantive preparation that will likely go to waste. The above things are GUARANTEED to help you in law school, and they should absolutely take priority. These things will be what give you guys the advantage over the "smart" kids who blindly reach for the prep books.

aliarrow
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby aliarrow » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:12 pm

thecilent wrote:
aliarrow wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
dakatz wrote:I think the true gunners are the ones who read this thread and laugh at how the majority of smart people get misled enough to think that 0L substantive prep is the way to go. While people blindly run to supplements and such, the real smart ones are out actually getting an advantage.


Before everyone nuts themselves with this idea that it's a bad idea/hurtful to do substantive prep before law school and that going in "fresh" is somehow the best thing to do (since TLS says so); 2 of the people at my top 10 with some of the highest GPA's in the entire class taught themselves torts before they reached law school. They raped everyone else who took the subject with them. Including those who came in "fresh" and relaxed. And frankly a lot more students who do well take this route than TLS suggests. But because the site is all about trying to come off as smart as possible (read trying to push the idea that some people just magically get high grades with moderate to little effort as a result of "natural intelligence") they act as if it's an uncommon thing.

Link?
Just last week or so there was a #1 at a T30 advocating summer prep.


I don't think I actually posted in it, so I'm having troubles finding the thread. If anyone on here remembers and wants to help out then feel free. I distinctly remember a thread with someone at the top of the class saying they used substantial 0L prep, even though not everyone agrees its the best approach

BlueDiamond
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby BlueDiamond » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:16 pm

Seems like there are a massive amount of supplement/treatise options for each subject.. can anyone in here list what they believe the best are for both first and second semester subjects of 1L year? Thanks.

lhlee
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby lhlee » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:34 pm

They see me gunnin'
They hatin'

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coldshoulder
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby coldshoulder » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:39 pm

lhlee wrote:They see me gunnin'
They hatin'

They trolling
They trying to catch me gunning dirty

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glitched
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby glitched » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:42 pm

what does... "gunning" mean?

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Always Credited
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby Always Credited » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:46 pm

dakatz wrote:These 0L's should be learning about law school exams, sprucing up resumes, making cover letter templates, calling alumni of their schools and networking as much as possible and as often as possible, becoming better and faster at typing, taking time to reflect on themselves and not going into law school blindly, reading every "success in law school" thread they can find to gather all the helpful info available, etc. These are the things that come before substantive preparation that will likely go to waste. The above things are GUARANTEED to help you in law school, and they should absolutely take priority. These things will be what give you guys the advantage over the "smart" kids who blindly reach for the prep books.

dakatz
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:53 pm

BlueDiamond wrote:Seems like there are a massive amount of supplement/treatise options for each subject.. can anyone in here list what they believe the best are for both first and second semester subjects of 1L year? Thanks.


I'd be happy to share with you what supplements I found most helpful. All I ask is that you first read my long post earlier on this page. Make sure to do ALL of those things prior to law school. It is very important to do them if you want to get an edge on your peers. Then and only then should you even take a peek at any of these books to get a cursory glance of what you will be covering.

Torts - Examples and Explanations by Glannon

The basic stuff is very standardized and no book makes it more clear than this one. The hypothetical questions at the end of each chapter are invaluable.

Contracts - Concepts and Case Analysis in the Law of Contracts by Chirelstein, and also the student version of the contracts treatise by Farnsworth

The Chirelstein books is a short read and gives a glance at some basic topics. I didn't find it quite as helpful as some other people, but it gave a nice overview. Farnsworth is a large treatise. It is NOT the kind of book you read through cover to cover. What you do with treatises is look to the case reference index for the cases you are covering. The index will tell you the page where the case is mentioned. And that will lead you to a relevant section of the treatise that will hopefully have some helpful nuggets of information. This is really the only way to effectively utilize a treatise. Most people don't ever use them, but I found the Farnsworth one good.

Civil Procedure - Examples and Explanations by Glannon

Like the torts book, it gives good hypos to test yourself and lays out complex concepts with ease. Among the most helpful supplements

Constitutional Law - Constitutional Law: Practice and Policies by Chemerinksy

This is a very long book and you should use it like a treatise (as in DO NOT try and read the whole damn thing). Its a reference book in which you look to the relevant section based on the index of topics or the index of cases. The book is very long, and covers WAY more than any 1L con law class will cover, so please heed my warnings with regard to how you utilize books like Chemerinsky and other large treatises

Criminal Law - Understanding Criminal Law by Dressler

This book will be particularly helpful if you use Dressler's casebook since its keyed to it. But even if you don't Dressler is probably the most prominent crim law scholar around and lays out the info very clearly

Property - None

Property law is the most disjointed area of law you will encounter during 1L year. It is very hard to define what it is and exactly what it encompasses. Likewise, every property supplement treats the subject differently. And the differences can be pretty big. I would defer to your professor on this one. This is the course that you really don't want to try and prep for during the summer prior to law school.

I hope this information helps you all. Again, read my earlier post and do those things first. Put your full effort into it and you will have an unbelievable edge on the competition. This should be the last thing on your list.
Last edited by dakatz on Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Paichka
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby Paichka » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:54 pm

BlueDiamond wrote:Seems like there are a massive amount of supplement/treatise options for each subject.. can anyone in here list what they believe the best are for both first and second semester subjects of 1L year? Thanks.


I think, honestly, it's different for everyone.

The supplements recommended most often in these threads include:

Glannon's Civ Pro E&E + the Glannon Guide
Chirelstein on Contracts (The Boat Book)
The Torts E&E (or the Glannon Guide to Torts)
Understanding Criminal Law by Joshua Dressler
The Property E&E or Understanding Property (Sprankling)
Chemerinsky's Constitutional Law Treatise

Those are the biggies. Personally, I never got much use out of the E&Es. I used the "Understanding" series instead: Civil Procedure (Freer & Raven-Hansen) and Torts (Diamond). For Contracts, we used the Farnsworth casebook, so I went to the library and read the relevant sections in Farnsworth's treatise.

Before you buy any supplements, I HIGHLY recommend waiting a couple of class periods into the semester, then hitting the library to see which supplement you like best. If your teacher recommends any in particular (or even better, wrote one), that's the supplement you should buy. Otherwise, review a couple of options to see which ones are organized in a fashion that makes sense to you (compare to your syllabus). That way, when you finally buy a supplement for each class, you're buying one that is actually going to be helpful. I don't even want to talk about all the money I wasted first semester -- I ended up with two or three supplements for each class because the ones I bought initially were basically worthless.

BlueDiamond
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby BlueDiamond » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:56 pm

dakatz wrote:
BlueDiamond wrote:Seems like there are a massive amount of supplement/treatise options for each subject.. can anyone in here list what they believe the best are for both first and second semester subjects of 1L year? Thanks.


I'd be happy to share with you what supplements I found most helpful. All I ask is that you first read my long post earlier on this page. Make sure to do ALL of those things prior to law school. It is very important to do them if you want to get an edge on your peers. Then and only then should you even take a peek at any of these books to get a cursory glance of what you will be covering.

Torts - Examples and Explanations by Glannon

The basic stuff is very standardized and no book makes it more clear than this one. The hypothetical questions at the end of each chapter are invaluable.

Contracts - Concepts and Case Analysis in the Law of Contracts by Chirelstein, and also the student version of the contracts treatise by Farnsworth

The Chirelstein books is a short read and gives a glance at some basic topics. I didn't find it quite as helpful as some other people, but it gave a nice overview. Farnsworth is a large treatise. It is NOT the kind of book you read through cover to cover. What you do with treatises is look to the case reference index for the cases you are covering. The index will tell you the page where the case is mentioned. And that will lead you to a relevant section of the treatise that will hopefully have some helpful nuggets of information. This is really the only way to effectively utilize a treatise. Most people don't ever use them, but I found the Farnsworth one good.

Civil Procedure - Examples and Explanations by Glannon

Like the torts book, it gives good hypos to test yourself and lays out complex concepts with ease. Among the most helpful supplements

Constitutional Law - Constitutional Law: Practice and Policies by Chemerinksy

This is a very long book and you should use it like a treatise (as in DO NOT try and read the whole damn thing). Its a reference book in which you look to the relevant section based on the index of topics or the index of cases. The book is very long, and covers WAY more than any 1L con law class will cover, so please heed my warnings with regard to how you utilize books like Chemerinsky and other large treatises

Criminal Law - Understanding Criminal Law by Dressler

This book will be particularly helpful if you use Dressler's casebook since its keyed to it. But even if you don't Dressler is probably the most prominent crim law scholar around and lays out the info very clearly

Property - None

Property law is the most disjointed area of law you will encounter during 1L year. It is very hard to define what it is and exactly what it encompasses. Likewise, every property supplement treats the subject differently. And the differences can be pretty big. I would defer to your professor on this one. This is the course that you really don't want to try and prep for during the summer prior to law school.

I hope this information helps you all. Again, read my earlier post and do those things first. Put your full effort into it and you will have an unbelievable edge on the competition. This should be the last thing on your list.



The


wow.. very helpful i appreciate it.. and no worries.. i also posted earlier about how I'm planning on doing LEEWS, GTM, and taking a typing class.. wont even be looking at supplements until after I've started classes i just wanted to get an idea of some good ones... thank you again

kehoema2
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Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide

Postby kehoema2 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:00 pm

thanks to all




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