Just got second DUI, what to do next?

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DeeCee
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby DeeCee » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:24 am

I take it seriously because my family has been personally affected by a drunk driver (my dad) before. Plus, drunk drivers are extremely dangerous and accidents that they are involved in are often highly publicized. However, I do not agree that we should all just bitch the OP out about it. Generally when someone has a drinking problem it is because they are going through other things (depression, family issues, etc), or have an addictive personality, and substance abuse is how they cope.

I think OP needs to get life straightened out by getting help for the drinking, and take public transportation for a while.

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Magnolia
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby Magnolia » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:30 am

NZA wrote:
ArthurDigbySellers wrote:FWIW I don't support drinking and driving at all, but I don't support destroying someone's livelihood over it. I could go into the destructive prison system as an analogy but I think you get my point.

And I say this as a hardliner who believes that anyone who gets a DUI should lose their license for life. I've seen the whole get-arrested-for-DUI-and-you're-fired destroy the careers of a couple people I knew. A guy I knew last year was ARRESTED for DUI and lost a gig (similar to TFA). The charges ended up being dropped a couple of days later, but he still lost his job. Ridiculous. I mean, a company can set its own ethics standards, but I find this norm barbaric.

I agree with you. There's a weird stigma about DUI that I just don't get. Sure, if someone's guilty of it, throw the book at them, I guess. But someone's life shouldn't be ruined for one stupid mistake.

People who kill a car full of people by driving drunk don't receive leniency. Why should other DUI offenders have that benefit just because they had the good fortune to not get in an accident that time? If you're going to risk destroying the lives of others by driving drunk, then you should be prepared to accept having your own life destroyed when you get caught.

I've buried 8 friends as a result of some people's "stupid mistakes". If you drive drunk and the worst thing that happens is that you get arrested, you ought to thank your lucky stars.

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northwood
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby northwood » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:32 am

DeeCee wrote:I take it seriously because my family has been personally affected by a drunk driver (my dad) before. Plus, drunk drivers are extremely dangerous and accidents that they are involved in are often highly publicized. However, I do not agree that we should all just bitch the OP out about it. Generally when someone has a drinking problem it is because they are going through other things (depression, family issues, etc), or have an addictive personality, and substance abuse is how they cope.

I think OP needs to get life straightened out by getting help for the drinking, and take public transportation for a while.



I think one dui can be seen as an stupid mistake- but it depends on how they got it. If it was a roadside check and it was just over the limit- okay. If it was a serious crash- then no. My best friend put his car through a house and should be dead. the only thing that saved him was the fact that he was hammered ( and he was in a coma for 2 days). Luckily the house was just finished and empty- but the judge threw the book at him. Learned his lesson, and has a scar on his forhead to remind him

more than 1- then you need to get help, as its a sign that you have troubles in your life.

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DeeCee
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby DeeCee » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:35 am

northwood wrote:
DeeCee wrote:I take it seriously because my family has been personally affected by a drunk driver (my dad) before. Plus, drunk drivers are extremely dangerous and accidents that they are involved in are often highly publicized. However, I do not agree that we should all just bitch the OP out about it. Generally when someone has a drinking problem it is because they are going through other things (depression, family issues, etc), or have an addictive personality, and substance abuse is how they cope.

I think OP needs to get life straightened out by getting help for the drinking, and take public transportation for a while.



I think one dui can be seen as an stupid mistake- but it depends on how they got it. If it was a roadside check and it was just over the limit- okay. If it was a serious crash- then no. My best friend put his car through a house and should be dead. the only thing that saved him was the fact that he was hammered ( and he was in a coma for 2 days). Luckily the house was just finished and empty- but the judge threw the book at him. Learned his lesson, and has a scar on his forhead to remind him

more than 1- then you need to get help, as its a sign that you have troubles in your life.
Last edited by DeeCee on Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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boozehound
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby boozehound » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:38 am

Just to point out....the OP only has one post. Likely a flame.

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Stonewall
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby Stonewall » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:39 am

ArthurDigbySellers wrote:
paratactical wrote:
ArthurDigbySellers wrote:And I say this as a hardliner who believes that anyone who gets a DUI should lose their license for life.

In a lot of places, this would also make it impossible to have a job.


Yeah I know, that's why I've backed away from that stance. It's just hard to come up with fair punitive measures. Not everyone can afford alternative means of transportation depending on where they live (i.e. hiring a driver, public transportation if it sucks in the area), but at the same time, one who gets a DUI has proven themselves reckless and irresponsible. I know that for Restricted licenses in my state (i.e. when you're 15) are the right idea-you can only drive between set daylight hours, or only to and from work.


we have the same in my state, but its between 16-18 they have the permit. Not a bad idea IMO to go this route for offenders though

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ArthurDigbySellers
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby ArthurDigbySellers » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:43 am

Magnolia wrote:People who kill a car full of people by driving drunk don't receive leniency. Why should other DUI offenders have that benefit just because they had the good fortune to not get in an accident that time? If you're going to risk destroying the lives of others by driving drunk, then you should be prepared to accept having your own life destroyed when you get caught.

I've buried 8 friends as a result of some people's "stupid mistakes". If you drive drunk and the worst thing that happens is that you get arrested, you ought to thank your lucky stars.


This is so over the top it's not even funny. Don't you dare give me a self-righteous speech. You think I don't know anyone who's been affected by drunk driving? Really?

Our legal system does, to an extent, focus on consequentialism. So yes, someone who kills people while driving drunk should not and does not receive the same punishment as someone who only gets a DUI. Which is not to say that they shouldn't be punished, of course. Yes, if someone kills people, they should go to prison, which pretty much destroys their life. And yes, an accident can happen on someone's first DUI, of course--but to label someone a felon and destroy their life is not always the credited punishment.

Most people who hire a halfway decent lawyer don't end up getting charged with DUI the first time anyway so that's not my fucking point. My point was not really the legal consequences of a DUI (although that can be debated), but the DUI clauses so many companies have. My friend who ended up having his charges dropped was fired anyway! It's ridiculous sometimes.

Also, DUI is not as cut and dried as people think it is. My friend was under the legal limit and they wanted to charge him-cops discretion-if you're driving shitty you don't have to be over the limit to get a DUI. DUI traps catch a some people, and also fuck some too.

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AreJay711
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:44 am

Stonewall wrote:
ArthurDigbySellers wrote:
paratactical wrote:
ArthurDigbySellers wrote:And I say this as a hardliner who believes that anyone who gets a DUI should lose their license for life.

In a lot of places, this would also make it impossible to have a job.


Yeah I know, that's why I've backed away from that stance. It's just hard to come up with fair punitive measures. Not everyone can afford alternative means of transportation depending on where they live (i.e. hiring a driver, public transportation if it sucks in the area), but at the same time, one who gets a DUI has proven themselves reckless and irresponsible. I know that for Restricted licenses in my state (i.e. when you're 15) are the right idea-you can only drive between set daylight hours, or only to and from work.


we have the same in my state, but its between 16-18 they have the permit. Not a bad idea IMO to go this route for offenders though


The problem is that most people with DUI's have driven multiple times over the limit before they get caught. With a restricted license it is the same thing. Maybe if it was incorporated into the vehicle tag or something it would work though.

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dresden doll
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby dresden doll » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:50 am

You people do know that a person can get a DUI for something as minor as sleeping in the car with the ignition key on, right? A friend of mine got it that way when he decided to spend the night in the car in January in WI (he turned on the radio/heat to avoid freezing). Another friend of mine got hers with liquor levels below the legal level just because police officers have the discretion to do that. I was in the car with her at the time, and the police officer that stopped us was unbelievably full of shit. If she'd had the money to pay for a lawyer and the moxy to contend with the legal system, I'm convinced she'd have been able to fight off the charge.

I detest drinking and driving as much as the next person but the level of righteousness ITT is mind-blowing.

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paratactical
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby paratactical » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:54 am

dresden doll wrote:I detest drinking and driving as much as the next person but the level of righteousness ITT is mind-blowing.

To be honest, I'm pretty surprised with how long it took to get this bad.

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ArthurDigbySellers
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby ArthurDigbySellers » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:57 am

dresden doll wrote:You people do know that a person can get a DUI for something as minor as sleeping in the car with the ignition key on, right? A friend of mine got it that way when he decided to spend the night in the car in January in WI (he turned on the radio/heat to avoid freezing). Another friend of mine got hers with liquor levels below the legal level just because police officers have the discretion to do that. I was in the car with her at the time, and the police officer that stopped us was unbelievably full of shit. If she'd had the money to pay for a lawyer and the moxy to contend with the legal system, I'm convinced she'd have been able to fight off the charge.

I detest drinking and driving as much as the next person but the level of righteousness ITT is mind-blowing.


My friend who got fired had a BAC of less than half the legal limit-he had had like 2 beers or something. It's ridiculous. There was a legitimate alcohol related car accident, so I understood the vigilance, but the guy got fucked. A martyr in the name of the town administrator being able to say he was taking it seriously.

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rocon7383
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby rocon7383 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:00 pm

My advice- stop doing douchey things like drinking and driving.

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AreJay711
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:03 pm

paratactical wrote:
dresden doll wrote:I detest drinking and driving as much as the next person but the level of righteousness ITT is mind-blowing.

To be honest, I'm pretty surprised with how long it took to get this bad.


TBF, drinking and driving and getting caught drinking and driving are 2 different things. I'm pretty careful to avoid going over the limit but after I've been drinking I am super careful because I know that my reaction time and judgement is worse. I don't speed or weave in traffic and I focus on the road. Someone who gets stopped either was being careless or was well over the limit and either one is worse than simply drinking or driving by its self.

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paratactical
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby paratactical » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:05 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
paratactical wrote:
dresden doll wrote:I detest drinking and driving as much as the next person but the level of righteousness ITT is mind-blowing.

To be honest, I'm pretty surprised with how long it took to get this bad.


TBF, drinking and driving and getting caught drinking and driving are 2 different things. I'm pretty careful to avoid going over the limit but after I've been drinking I am super careful because I know that my reaction time and judgement is worse. I don't speed or weave in traffic and I focus on the road. Someone who gets stopped either was being careless or was well over the limit and either one is worse than simply drinking or driving by its self.

Hey, I'll be honest. I got a DUI. I was way over the limit. It was totally stupid and irresponsible of me. But I didn't hurt anybody and if I had been penalized the way that people ITT are suggesting, I would probably be living off of government funds and close to suicide rather than being a productive member of society that was punished harshly but given the opportunity to turn my life around.

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Magnolia
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby Magnolia » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:07 pm

ArthurDigbySellers wrote:Most people who hire a halfway decent lawyer don't end up getting charged with DUI the first time anyway

By this logic, most people who end up charged with a DUI are, at minimum, second offenders. That would make leniency even less deserved.

I will amend my earlier statement to not include those charged with DUI's while driving under the legal limit for sleeping in their car (seriously, that's fucked). I stand by my beliefs for anyone over the legal limit though. There are so many other options to drinking and driving that I just don't have any sympathy for someone who does it.

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paratactical
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby paratactical » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:09 pm

Magnolia wrote:
ArthurDigbySellers wrote:Most people who hire a halfway decent lawyer don't end up getting charged with DUI the first time anyway

By this logic, most people who end up charged with a DUI are, at minimum, second offenders. That would make leniency even less deserved.

I will amend my earlier statement to not include those charged with DUI's while driving under the legal limit for sleeping in their car (seriously, that's fucked). I stand by my beliefs for anyone over the legal limit though. There are so many other options to drinking and driving that I just don't have any sympathy for someone who does it.

I hope that when you eventually make a serious mistake you get the sympathy you wish to extend to others.

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Magnolia
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby Magnolia » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:12 pm

paratactical wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
ArthurDigbySellers wrote:Most people who hire a halfway decent lawyer don't end up getting charged with DUI the first time anyway

By this logic, most people who end up charged with a DUI are, at minimum, second offenders. That would make leniency even less deserved.

I will amend my earlier statement to not include those charged with DUI's while driving under the legal limit for sleeping in their car (seriously, that's fucked). I stand by my beliefs for anyone over the legal limit though. There are so many other options to drinking and driving that I just don't have any sympathy for someone who does it.

I hope that when you eventually make a serious mistake you get the sympathy you wish to extend to others.

Fair enough.

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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:12 pm

paratactical wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
ArthurDigbySellers wrote:Most people who hire a halfway decent lawyer don't end up getting charged with DUI the first time anyway

By this logic, most people who end up charged with a DUI are, at minimum, second offenders. That would make leniency even less deserved.

I will amend my earlier statement to not include those charged with DUI's while driving under the legal limit for sleeping in their car (seriously, that's fucked). I stand by my beliefs for anyone over the legal limit though. There are so many other options to drinking and driving that I just don't have any sympathy for someone who does it.

I hope that when you eventually make a serious mistake you get the sympathy you wish to extend to others.

Chris Hanson doesn't give leniency.

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AreJay711
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:35 pm

paratactical wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
paratactical wrote:
dresden doll wrote:I detest drinking and driving as much as the next person but the level of righteousness ITT is mind-blowing.

To be honest, I'm pretty surprised with how long it took to get this bad.


TBF, drinking and driving and getting caught drinking and driving are 2 different things. I'm pretty careful to avoid going over the limit but after I've been drinking I am super careful because I know that my reaction time and judgement is worse. I don't speed or weave in traffic and I focus on the road. Someone who gets stopped either was being careless or was well over the limit and either one is worse than simply drinking or driving by its self.

[story]


Right, but you got the message. I do think that people just fuck up sometimes but repeat offenders didn't get the message and need to face strong consequences. I am against destroying their lives or anything over the top but losing driving privileges or significant jail time (a couple months) isn't really life destroying but just makes people change their lives and hopefully stop them from doing it.

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paratactical
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby paratactical » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:37 pm

AreJay711 wrote:Right, but you got the message. I do think that people just fuck up sometimes but repeat offenders didn't get the message and need to face strong consequences. I am against destroying their lives or anything over the top but losing driving privileges or significant jail time (a couple months) isn't really life destroying but just makes people change their lives and hopefully stop them from doing it.

I've got no problems with being really really harsh to people that are repeat offenders. I take issue with the idea that first time DUI offenders should be charged as if they killed a car full of people as suggested here:

Magnolia wrote:People who kill a car full of people by driving drunk don't receive leniency. Why should other DUI offenders have that benefit just because they had the good fortune to not get in an accident that time? If you're going to risk destroying the lives of others by driving drunk, then you should be prepared to accept having your own life destroyed when you get caught.

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ArthurDigbySellers
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby ArthurDigbySellers » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm

Magnolia wrote:
ArthurDigbySellers wrote:Most people who hire a halfway decent lawyer don't end up getting charged with DUI the first time anyway

By this logic, most people who end up charged with a DUI are, at minimum, second offenders. That would make leniency even less deserved.

I will amend my earlier statement to not include those charged with DUI's while driving under the legal limit for sleeping in their car (seriously, that's fucked). I stand by my beliefs for anyone over the legal limit though. There are so many other options to drinking and driving that I just don't have any sympathy for someone who does it.


I'd just like to point out for the second time that that question is ancillary to my point. I wrote that to underscore that I wasn't really talking about legal ramifications but employment.

Boggs
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby Boggs » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:44 pm

boozehound wrote:Just to point out....the OP only has one post. Likely a flame regular poster who wanted to distance themselves from the question.


Fixed

My advice echos what's already been said... knock it off.

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ArthurDigbySellers
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby ArthurDigbySellers » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:49 pm

Boggs wrote:
boozehound wrote:Just to point out....the OP only has one post. Likely a flame regular poster who wanted to distance themselves from the question.


Fixed

My advice echos what's already been said... knock it off.


Knock what off? It's perfectly reasonable to assume a single post user starting a controversial thread is a flame. I would say this would constitute valid use of the anonymous function in the Legal Employment forum. Unless "knock it off" refers to drinking, in which case, credited.

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Magnolia
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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby Magnolia » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:53 pm

ArthurDigbySellers wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
ArthurDigbySellers wrote:Most people who hire a halfway decent lawyer don't end up getting charged with DUI the first time anyway

By this logic, most people who end up charged with a DUI are, at minimum, second offenders. That would make leniency even less deserved.

I will amend my earlier statement to not include those charged with DUI's while driving under the legal limit for sleeping in their car (seriously, that's fucked). I stand by my beliefs for anyone over the legal limit though. There are so many other options to drinking and driving that I just don't have any sympathy for someone who does it.


I'd just like to point out for the second time that that question is ancillary to my point. I wrote that to underscore that I wasn't really talking about legal ramifications but employment.

If you look at the quotes, I was originally responding to another poster, not to you. I wasn't addressing your discussion of employer reprecussions.

edit: However, your argument that most people getting charged with DUI's are multiple offenders doesn't help your case whether your talking about criminal punishment or employment reprecussions.

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Re: Just got second DUI, what to do next?

Postby Boggs » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:59 pm

ArthurDigbySellers wrote:
Boggs wrote:
boozehound wrote:Just to point out....the OP only has one post. Likely a flame regular poster who wanted to distance themselves from the question.


Fixed

My advice echos what's already been said... knock it off.


Knock what off? It's perfectly reasonable to assume a single post user starting a controversial thread is a flame. I would say this would constitute valid use of the anonymous function in the Legal Employment forum. Unless "knock it off" refers to drinking, in which case, credited.


"Knock if off" refers to driving drunk.




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