Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

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D-ROCCA
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby D-ROCCA » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:03 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:Everyone knows PBK, and distinguishes it from other fake honor societies. That said, there will be no boost for law school admissions, since by default you need a high GPA just to be considered.

No, they don't lol. Do people really live in such a small academic circle they don't realize that almost every person will have no idea what this means outside of academia?


So think about who is reviewing the application. Then think about where they work.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:04 am

D-ROCCA wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:Everyone knows PBK, and distinguishes it from other fake honor societies. That said, there will be no boost for law school admissions, since by default you need a high GPA just to be considered.

No, they don't lol. Do people really live in such a small academic circle they don't realize that almost every person will have no idea what this means outside of academia?


So think about who is reviewing the application. Then think about where they work.

Did you miss the previous interaction that started this exchange? You know, the one about it being good for your resume?

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D-ROCCA
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby D-ROCCA » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:06 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:Everyone knows PBK, and distinguishes it from other fake honor societies. That said, there will be no boost for law school admissions, since by default you need a high GPA just to be considered.

No, they don't lol. Do people really live in such a small academic circle they don't realize that almost every person will have no idea what this means outside of academia?


So think about who is reviewing the application. Then think about where they work.

Did you miss the previous interaction that started this exchange? You know, the one about it being good for your resume?


I may have missed it. I admit, I might have been preoccupied with, you know, the title of the thread.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:09 am

D-ROCCA wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:
So think about who is reviewing the application. Then think about where they work.

Did you miss the previous interaction that started this exchange? You know, the one about it being good for your resume?


I may have missed it. I admit, I might have been preoccupied with, you know, the title of the thread.

OK, i'll chalk this up to mutual misunderstanding and agree with you that it won't matter for admissions.
Last edited by Patriot1208 on Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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D-ROCCA
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby D-ROCCA » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:10 am

That seems completely reasonable.

CrimLaw300
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby CrimLaw300 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:31 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:Everyone knows PBK, and distinguishes it from other fake honor societies. That said, there will be no boost for law school admissions, since by default you need a high GPA just to be considered.

No, they don't lol. Do people really live in such a small academic circle they don't realize that almost every person will have no idea what this means outside of academia?


Like I said... No need to be cunts. Just thought I would ask. All of my professors acted like it was a huge deal, so i wanted to see if their congratulations were commensurate with my acceptance.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:36 am

CrimLaw300 wrote:Just got nominated and apparently it is one of the most prestigious honor societies around. If I get a 170+ on the June LSAT, I will be taking a year off and reapplying. I'm obviously going to add it to my resume, but I am curious if it would have any impact on the law school admissions process as a soft.

Comments?

Kind regards,
Crimlaw


i'd say not much impact, because if you're applying to top schools i'd bet a majority of applicants applying to the same schools will also have this on their resume.

i was in PBK and i don't feel like it made a difference for me. i guess i can't be sure of that though

ETA: i suppose i think that because you don't have to do anything to become a member except pay. law schools will be impressed with the GPA that got you into PBK, but that stands on its own of course. so i look at it as something rather insignificant. in fact, i was about the throw the app away when i got it in UG but my mom wanted me to join because my dad was in it. i said cool, if you pay for it
Last edited by paulinaporizkova on Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tyro
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby tyro » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:40 am

I guess the real bonus is probably networking opportunities. I mean, like other have said, it's not going to hurt you to have it, but I can't see it as being a major factor in your applications.

CrimLaw300
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby CrimLaw300 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:51 am

paulinaporizkova wrote:
CrimLaw300 wrote:Just got nominated and apparently it is one of the most prestigious honor societies around. If I get a 170+ on the June LSAT, I will be taking a year off and reapplying. I'm obviously going to add it to my resume, but I am curious if it would have any impact on the law school admissions process as a soft.

Comments?

Kind regards,
Crimlaw



i'd say not much impact, because if you're applying to top schools i'd bet a majority of applicants applying to the same schools will also have this on their resume.

i was in PBK and i don't feel like it made a difference for me. i guess i can't be sure of that though

ETA: i suppose i think that because you don't have to do anything to become a member except pay. law schools will be impressed with the GPA that got you into PBK, but that stands on its own of course. so i look at it as something rather insignificant. in fact, i was about the throw the app away when i got it in UG but my mom wanted me to join because my dad was in it. i said cool, if you pay for it


Same here. I completely disregarded the email until the school said they would pay my initiation fees. Then I looked into it and it looked more legitimate than any other honor society.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby chasgoose » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:21 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:Everyone knows PBK, and distinguishes it from other fake honor societies. That said, there will be no boost for law school admissions, since by default you need a high GPA just to be considered.

No, they don't lol. Do people really live in such a small academic circle they don't realize that almost every person will have no idea what this means outside of academia?


So think about who is reviewing the application. Then think about where they work.

Did you miss the previous interaction that started this exchange? You know, the one about it being good for your resume?


Yeah, but the legal profession by and large is rather well steeped in academia. For the same reason that the top law firms care where you went to law school, they will also know what PBK is. It's not like the OP's applying to McDonalds or something...PBK still won't really make that much of a difference in getting into law school, since it's merely a reflection of your GPA, which the law schools' know, but it will be a nice little extra touch on your resume for applying to jobs. Not game-changing, but it is a lot more legit than any other honor society.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby SJJM » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:35 am

Phi Beta Kappa is highly respected and it was actually mentioned in a hand written note on an acceptance letter from a Top 20. Point is, always mention it as it is an achievement that does look nice on your resume. Maybe a lot of people get in but maybe admissions officers note when it's not there.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:40 am

chasgoose wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
D-ROCCA wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
So think about who is reviewing the application. Then think about where they work.

Did you miss the previous interaction that started this exchange? You know, the one about it being good for your resume?


Yeah, but the legal profession by and large is rather well steeped in academia. For the same reason that the top law firms care where you went to law school, they will also know what PBK is. It's not like the OP's applying to McDonalds or something...PBK still won't really make that much of a difference in getting into law school, since it's merely a reflection of your GPA, which the law schools' know, but it will be a nice little extra touch on your resume for applying to jobs. Not game-changing, but it is a lot more legit than any other honor society.

I was commenting on it as being good on a resume in general, i'd wager you'd be hard pressed to find more than 5% of bankers, consultants, and corporate lawyers who have any idea what it is.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:41 am

SJJM wrote:Phi Beta Kappa is highly respected and it was actually mentioned in a hand written note on an acceptance letter from a Top 20. Point is, always mention it as it is an achievement that does look nice on your resume. Maybe a lot of people get in but maybe admissions officers note when it's not there.

Or, you know, they always send hand written notes that mention something and that was what the dean randomly picked for you or he picked it because the rest of your resume was so bland.
Last edited by Patriot1208 on Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby SJJM » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:48 am

Yes, I'm sure you're right Patriot...my application must have been bland

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby chasgoose » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:11 pm

Patriot1208 wrote: I was commenting on it as being good on a resume in general, i'd wager you'd be hard pressed to find more than 5% of bankers, consultants, and corporate lawyers who have any idea what it is.


Sorry, I just don't buy that. Maybe it's true for lesser firms but seeing as the top-ranked law, consulting, and banking firms heavily recruit from the top academic schools (all of which have PBK, or have students familiar with PBK) I highly doubt that only 5% have heard of it. Look at the educational info for the V20 firms once in awhile. Also, law in particular is a prestige obsessed field. Many people in it either have or know that they don't have credentials like PBK. Someone sounds a little bitter that they aren't PBK if you ask me (I'm not, but whatever). I'm not saying it's AMAZING on a resume, but it probably gives a little boost and it definitely can't hurt, but if it doesn't help, it's not because employers don't know what it is.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:21 pm

chasgoose wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote: I was commenting on it as being good on a resume in general, i'd wager you'd be hard pressed to find more than 5% of bankers, consultants, and corporate lawyers who have any idea what it is.


Sorry, I just don't buy that. Maybe it's true for lesser firms but seeing as the top-ranked law, consulting, and banking firms heavily recruit from the top academic schools (all of which have PBK, or have students familiar with PBK) I highly doubt that only 5% have heard of it. Look at the educational info for the V20 firms once in awhile. Also, law in particular is a prestige obsessed field. Many people in it either have or know that they don't have credentials like PBK. Someone sounds a little bitter that they aren't PBK if you ask me (I'm not, but whatever). I'm not saying it's AMAZING on a resume, but it probably gives a little boost and it definitely can't hurt, but if it doesn't help, it's not because employers don't know what it is.

Bro i'll probably be foregoing law school for consulting and i've never heard of it before this thread. Consultants couldn't give a fuck about honors societies and that is a fact. I also worked in a financial recruiting firm and no one cared about these things or latin honors or anything like that. Schools tell kids these things matter and they never do. Bankers care about four things, where you went to school, your GPA, your prior work experience, and your personality. All this fluffy bullshit is just that, fluff that schools encourage for academic sake.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby DeeCee » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:03 pm

Seriously, no one cares about this. Leave UG for a little while and you'll see.

I paid for it my junior and senior years as an UG and once I left my school, NO ONE gave a rat's ass about it! I promise you adcomms have seen every honor society ever listed and they don't care if you're just a member. Now, if you're the president/VP/other high position in your honor society that's a different case and you should list anything that shows leadership.

Maybe I have this opinion because my CV is multiple pages long, but really, adcomms want to see your important achievements, not every little bullet point of your life listed on your resume/CV. Now, if this is one of the only things you have, you should list it so that it doesn't look like you've done nothing. But when you get a real job or write publications, etc. it looks silly to list this kind of stuff because you have achievements that eclipse a GPA honor society. Adcomms already expect you to list your GPA somewhere on the application-- PBK is just synonymous with having a great GPA, rather than a separate achievement.

So the answer to your question is unless you have taken on a significant role within the honor society, PBK is not a significant soft, although it could add more positive fluff to the application of an UG with limited work or other experience.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby tallboone » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:14 pm

The people in this thread who have said PBK doesn't matter are either ignorant or actually stupid. When you are applying for real jobs, you don't put your undergrad GPA on your resume, and nobody is ever going to ask you for your undergraduate transcript. Generally, the only way you can signal to an interviewer that you did well in undergrad is to have some sort of cum laude distinction or Phi Beta Kappa.

PBK is the only honors society that means anything, but it means a great deal on a resume because it distinguishes you. Also, to get PBK you have to be in the top X% of you class (usually top 10%) AND take fulfill the chapter's breadth requirements. In an era of grade inflation, you still can't fake latin honors or PBK. For the posters above, if you haven't heard of Phi Beta Kappa, it's because you didn't do well enough in school for the honor, or you went to a shitty undergrad that didn't have a chapter.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby surfg1203 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:19 pm

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Last edited by surfg1203 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:20 pm

tallboone wrote:The people in this thread who have said PBK doesn't matter are either ignorant or actually stupid. When you are applying for real jobs, you don't put your undergrad GPA on your resume, and nobody is ever going to ask you for your undergraduate transcript. Generally, the only way you can signal to an interviewer that you did well in undergrad is to have some sort of cum laude distinction or Phi Beta Kappa.

PBK is the only honors society that means anything, but it means a great deal on a resume because it distinguishes you. Also, to get PBK you have to be in the top X% of you class (usually top 10%) AND take fulfill the chapter's breadth requirements. In an era of grade inflation, you still can't fake latin honors or PBK. For the posters above, if you haven't heard of Phi Beta Kappa, it's because you didn't do well enough in school for the honor, or you went to a shitty undergrad that didn't have a chapter.

This post is 100% false. You do use your undergrad GPA to a point, once you are past that point, the employer only cares about work experience and recs.

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby katjust » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:22 pm

Generally PBK is not based solely on GPA. It requires the student take the right types of courses and do well in them. Talboone is right on this.

It is regarded as the top arts & sciences type honor society.

It probably won't give a huge boost though, but if people on the committee are members they will respect it.

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tallboone
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby tallboone » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:23 pm

When a lot of partners at Cravath put it on their firm bio pages when they are 20+ years out of undergrad, I would say it is a big deal:
http://www.cravath.com/lawyers/list.aspx?KeywordPhrase=phi%20beta%20kappa

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DeeCee
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby DeeCee » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:23 pm

tallboone wrote:The people in this thread who have said PBK doesn't matter are either ignorant or actually stupid. When you are applying for real jobs, you don't put your undergrad GPA on your resume, and nobody is ever going to ask you for your undergraduate transcript. Generally, the only way you can signal to an interviewer that you did well in undergrad is to have some sort of cum laude distinction or Phi Beta Kappa.

PBK is the only honors society that means anything, but it means a great deal on a resume because it distinguishes you. Also, to get PBK you have to be in the top X% of you class (usually top 10%) AND take fulfill the chapter's breadth requirements. In an era of grade inflation, you still can't fake latin honors or PBK. For the posters above, if you haven't heard of Phi Beta Kappa, it's because you didn't do well enough in school for the honor, or you went to a shitty undergrad that didn't have a chapter.


Under your line of reasoning OP can just put his/her cum laude distinction and be done with it, without the fees.

OP, do what you feel is best for you but it doesn't really matter. Besides law firms, I haven't seen many professions that care about your grades, period.

But as far as LS applications go, list it if you don't have many other achievements at this time, or if you've played a large role in your honor society. Don't list it if you have more/better achievements. Either way it's not that big of a deal and you can save the money by listing your "cum laude distinction."

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DeeCee
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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby DeeCee » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:24 pm

tallboone wrote:When a lot of partners at Cravath put it on their firm bio pages when they are 20+ years out of undergrad, I would say it is a big deal:
http://www.cravath.com/lawyers/list.aspx?KeywordPhrase=phi%20beta%20kappa


I lol'd

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Re: Phi beta kappa honor society - significant soft?

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:25 pm

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