Michigan v Lesser T14 Forum

pialltheway · Post by **pialltheway** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:41 pm

Long time lurker here....so while I know the answer to this question based upon my daily TLSing, just curious if any fellow 0Ls or actual 1/2/3L's can give some insight.

Accepted into Michigan and roughly all the T14s that fall below (according to the new stats). I applied to Michigan on a whim really -- it was a T14, I had a good shot, but wasn't all that interested in Michigan or the Midwest. At the time, and really still, I had my sights set on NY or DC, both as school and employment destinations. I have been involved in PI work for about 5 years now, so I know that this is the area of law that I want to practice (therefore, big law is not even on the radar). I still have undergrad debt, and got a small scholarship to Michigan, so that too is a factor. Ultimately, I am curious why everyone on TLS is so gaga for Michigan?? Athough that said, I am clearly so influenced by TLS that I am now considering Michigan as my number 1 or 2 choice!

Is the consensus really that barring any major scholarships at other schools, Michigan is the way to go? I have no strong pulls to any of the schools and it's getting so close to decision time, I don't really know what to do (Columbia VCE please arrive!). I know they are all great schools so I'm pretty sure I'd be happy wherever I end up, but can someone help explain the Michigan love on TLS? I want to love it, just don't know why!

whymeohgodno · Post by **whymeohgodno** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:44 pm

What lesser T14? Unless you are talking about Georgetown, Michigan falls in rank with every other T14 other than HYS and CCN which are the better ones.

fatduck · Post by **fatduck** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:45 pm

if you're interested in PI you should compare the LRAP programs for schools you're interested in. i believe michigan has a pretty generous one.

Sam Seaborn · Post by **Sam Seaborn** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:47 pm

Most people on TLS like Michigan because they heard that experienced people in the legal community like Michigan. People in the legal community like Michigan because Michigan used to be ranked higher back in the day, and the partners who make decisions and are old as shit.

Also, Dean Z is awesome. And the law campus is pretty.

Ann Arbor is the type of place that you need to visit in order to find out whether you like it or not. Most people do. It just has a feel and atmosphere that is different from most other places.

beachbum · Post by **beachbum** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:51 pm

fatduck wrote:if you're interested in PI you should compare the LRAP programs for schools you're interested in. i believe michigan has a pretty generous one.

Yup. Without knowing anything else, it's really gonna be up to you to decide between MVPDNB (or whichever ones accepted you) based on LRAP (use the search function, or check out the articles), cost of attendance, and personal fit (visit the schools if possible). In a broad sense, Michigan is no better or worse than UVA, Penn, Duke, NU, and Cal- but I'm not familiar with their individual LRAPs. I know that Duke has a pretty solid LRAP, though.

whymeohgodno · Post by **whymeohgodno** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:54 pm

beachbum wrote:
fatduck wrote:if you're interested in PI you should compare the LRAP programs for schools you're interested in. i believe michigan has a pretty generous one.
Yup. Without knowing anything else, it's really gonna be up to you to decide between MVPDNB (or whichever ones accepted you) based on LRAP (use the search function, or check out the articles), cost of attendance, and personal fit (visit the schools if possible). In a broad sense, Michigan is no better or worse than UVA, Penn, Duke, NU, and Cal- but I'm not familiar with their individual LRAPs. I know that Duke has a pretty solid LRAP, though.

Egregious anti-Cornell trolling.

paulinaporizkova · Post by **paulinaporizkova** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:57 pm

i'd be wary of getting your heart set on michigan without actually seeing the campus/getting to know the community better. it sounds like you're kind of an east coast person who isn't necessarily drawn to the midwest so did you get into duke, UVA, or cornell? they're all on par with michigan and you should visit all these campuses to see what you like. all else being equal, take the school where you'd be able to graduate from with the least amount of money. for example, i got into both UVA and cornell but the tuition at cornell is high as shit and it would end up costing me more to go there, and that is one reason i chose UVA (CoL is low for both these schools so that's not a factor)

i cannot tell a lie though, TLS also has a lot of love for UVA and i can't pretend that all the good things i heard had no effect on me.

are you going to Mich ASW next week? or whenever it is? hope so

Sam Seaborn · Post by **Sam Seaborn** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:58 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
beachbum wrote:
fatduck wrote:if you're interested in PI you should compare the LRAP programs for schools you're interested in. i believe michigan has a pretty generous one.
Yup. Without knowing anything else, it's really gonna be up to you to decide between MVPDNB (or whichever ones accepted you) based on LRAP (use the search function, or check out the articles), cost of attendance, and personal fit (visit the schools if possible). In a broad sense, Michigan is no better or worse than UVA, Penn, Duke, NU, and Cal- but I'm not familiar with their individual LRAPs. I know that Duke has a pretty solid LRAP, though.
Egregious anti-Cornell trolling.

Not really that egregious, all those schools are ranked higher. If you were talking about Big Law placement then maybe, but not in terms of rankings.

whymeohgodno · Post by **whymeohgodno** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:59 pm

Sam Seaborn wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
beachbum wrote:
fatduck wrote:if you're interested in PI you should compare the LRAP programs for schools you're interested in. i believe michigan has a pretty generous one.
Yup. Without knowing anything else, it's really gonna be up to you to decide between MVPDNB (or whichever ones accepted you) based on LRAP (use the search function, or check out the articles), cost of attendance, and personal fit (visit the schools if possible). In a broad sense, Michigan is no better or worse than UVA, Penn, Duke, NU, and Cal- but I'm not familiar with their individual LRAPs. I know that Duke has a pretty solid LRAP, though.
Egregious anti-Cornell trolling.
Not really that egregious, all those schools are ranked higher. If you were talking about Big Law placement then maybe, but not in terms of rankings.

He wasn't talking about rankings. He was talking about "In a broad sense". L2Read

Sam Seaborn · Post by **Sam Seaborn** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:00 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:i'd be wary of getting your heart set on michigan without actually seeing the campus/getting to know the community better. it sounds like you're kind of an east coast person who isn't necessarily drawn to the midwest so did you get into duke, UVA, or cornell? they're all on par with michigan and you should visit all these campuses to see what you like. all else being equal, take the school where you'd be able to graduate from with the least amount of money. for example, i got into both UVA and cornell but the tuition at cornell is high as shit and it would end up costing me more to go there, and that is one reason i chose UVA (CoL is low for both these schools so that's not a factor)

i cannot tell a lie though, TLS also has a lot of love for UVA and i can't pretend that all the good things i heard had no effect on me.

are you going to Mich ASW next week? or whenever it is? hope so

Are you saying that Duke, Cornell, and UVA are more representative of the east coast than UMich? Cause last time I checked, Cornell and UVA are in the middle of nowhere, and Duke is more South than east coast. Having been to all 4 campuses, it seems like an east coaster would probably be more at home in Ann Arbor than Durham, Ithaca, or Charlottesville.

beachbum · Post by **beachbum** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:00 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
beachbum wrote:
fatduck wrote:if you're interested in PI you should compare the LRAP programs for schools you're interested in. i believe michigan has a pretty generous one.
Yup. Without knowing anything else, it's really gonna be up to you to decide between MVPDNB (or whichever ones accepted you) based on LRAP (use the search function, or check out the articles), cost of attendance, and personal fit (visit the schools if possible). In a broad sense, Michigan is no better or worse than UVA, Penn, Duke, NU, and Cal- but I'm not familiar with their individual LRAPs. I know that Duke has a pretty solid LRAP, though.
Egregious anti-Cornell trolling.

Oh shit, you're right. That was honestly by mistake- and I did it twice. And I thought I had covered my bases by remembering Berkeley.

So uh... throw Cornell in there, too.

Sam Seaborn · Post by **Sam Seaborn** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:01 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:He wasn't talking about rankings. He was talking about "In a broad sense". L2Read

Sorry, I must have missed where he said "in a broad sense." Good call.

mst · Post by **mst** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:13 pm

Really depends on the money and personal preferences.

paulinaporizkova · Post by **paulinaporizkova** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:17 pm

Sam Seaborn wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:i'd be wary of getting your heart set on michigan without actually seeing the campus/getting to know the community better. it sounds like you're kind of an east coast person who isn't necessarily drawn to the midwest so did you get into duke, UVA, or cornell? they're all on par with michigan and you should visit all these campuses to see what you like. all else being equal, take the school where you'd be able to graduate from with the least amount of money. for example, i got into both UVA and cornell but the tuition at cornell is high as shit and it would end up costing me more to go there, and that is one reason i chose UVA (CoL is low for both these schools so that's not a factor)

i cannot tell a lie though, TLS also has a lot of love for UVA and i can't pretend that all the good things i heard had no effect on me.

are you going to Mich ASW next week? or whenever it is? hope so
Are you saying that Duke, Cornell, and UVA are more representative of the east coast than UMich? Cause last time I checked, Cornell and UVA are in the middle of nowhere, and Duke is more South than east coast. Having been to all 4 campuses, it seems like an east coaster would probably be more at home in Ann Arbor than Durham, Ithaca, or Charlottesville.

whoa whoa hey now! play nice. i'm saying that if you are from a certain region and want to stay in that general region for school, that is a valid reason for swaying your decision, within reason. also, it's not like A2 is some crazy huge city compared to Charlottesville or even Ithaca. It might be more suburban, but it's no Chicago, DC, or NYC. also, isn't durham also a decent size? i just told this person that these schools were on par despite TLS's crazy love for michigan. don't get your panties in a twist

ETA: i think duke would be fine. there might be less northeast representation because of self selection to the south, but that really doesn't mean anything about the school in general. ann arbor isn't any closer to NYC/DC than durham if you're gonna talk about proximity

beachbum · Post by **beachbum** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:21 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
Sam Seaborn wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:i'd be wary of getting your heart set on michigan without actually seeing the campus/getting to know the community better. it sounds like you're kind of an east coast person who isn't necessarily drawn to the midwest so did you get into duke, UVA, or cornell? they're all on par with michigan and you should visit all these campuses to see what you like. all else being equal, take the school where you'd be able to graduate from with the least amount of money. for example, i got into both UVA and cornell but the tuition at cornell is high as shit and it would end up costing me more to go there, and that is one reason i chose UVA (CoL is low for both these schools so that's not a factor)

i cannot tell a lie though, TLS also has a lot of love for UVA and i can't pretend that all the good things i heard had no effect on me.

are you going to Mich ASW next week? or whenever it is? hope so
Are you saying that Duke, Cornell, and UVA are more representative of the east coast than UMich? Cause last time I checked, Cornell and UVA are in the middle of nowhere, and Duke is more South than east coast. Having been to all 4 campuses, it seems like an east coaster would probably be more at home in Ann Arbor than Durham, Ithaca, or Charlottesville.
whoa whoa hey now! play nice. i'm saying that if you are from a certain region and want to stay in that general region for school, that is a valid reason for swaying your decision, within reason. also, it's not like A2 is some crazy huge city compared to Charlottesville or even Ithaca. It might be more suburban, but it's no Chicago, DC, or NYC. also, isn't durham also a decent size? i just told this person that these schools were on par despite TLS's crazy love for michigan. don't get your panties in a twist

ETA: i think duke would be fine. there might be less northeast representation because of self selection to the south, but that really doesn't mean anything about the school in general. ann arbor isn't any closer to NYC/DC than durham if you're gonna talk about proximity

What's that? You're recommending Duke?

paulinaporizkova · Post by **paulinaporizkova** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:23 pm

beachbum wrote:
What's that? You're recommending Duke?

So... Go Blue Devils, yes?

right now duke is helping me prove a point to rob lowe over there. so for the moment, yes

also, NINJA EDIT

beachbum · Post by **beachbum** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:33 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
beachbum wrote:
What's that? You're recommending Duke?

So... Go Blue Devils, yes?
right now duke is helping me prove a point to rob lowe over there. so for the moment, yes

also, NINJA EDIT

It's cool, no need to explain yourself. I'd have a hard time staying opposed to such an awesome school, too.

pialltheway · Post by **pialltheway** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:18 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I have looked at LRAP's but as far as I can tell, all the schools below CCN have roughly the same LRAP offerings (this is obviously a naive summary, and I do intend on doing a more indepth examination). I guess what is difficult is that each school is so different and has its fair share of pros and cons, that it's hard to pick between them all. I love UVA and Duke's campus and sunshine, but really like the atmosphere at Michigan. Like Cornell's size and placement options, while I feel like I might miss out on some PI options and clinics at Gtown and Penn. Argh. Work/travel committments prevent me from (re)visiting any of the campuses before deposit deadline so have to base it on the combination of gut instinct, research, and TLS indoctrination! Guess in the long run it doesn't matter much, I'll be 200K in debt and in ten years no one will care where I went anyways!

michigan_man · Post by **michigan_man** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:32 pm

Time to end this silly debate. Michigan's LRAP has been updated this year and beats almost every IBR-based LRAP out there:
--LinkRemoved--
To the OP: Visit the campuses. You can tell a lot about the public interest community at a school by visiting. For this reason, I wouldn't even consider Duke, Cornell, Northwestern or Penn if you are serious about public interest. Your choice should be between Boalt, Michigan and maybe Virginia, but I can't speak to UVa's public interest community. Good luck.

beachbum · Post by **beachbum** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:35 pm

Helpful LRAP comparisons: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=119817

michigan_man · Post by **michigan_man** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:39 pm

beachbum wrote:Helpful LRAP comparisons: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=119817

Not helpful at all. Very outdated.

michigan_man · Post by **michigan_man** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:43 pm

The only way to really make this comparison is to go to all of the schools' sites and read the most recent fine print about their LRAPs. Might as well spend the time studying them and figuring out good they are in relation to your individual goals and circumstances. Think of it as Contracts prep work.

beachbum · Post by **beachbum** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:48 pm

michigan_man wrote:
beachbum wrote:Helpful LRAP comparisons: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=119817
Not helpful at all. Very outdated.

They were last updated 3/14/11?

michigan_man · Post by **michigan_man** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:54 pm

both outdated an incorrect. in fact, that chart is one of the most misleading things i have seen on TLS, and that is saying a lot.

beachbum · Post by **beachbum** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:56 pm

michigan_man wrote:both outdated an incorrect. in fact, that chart is one of the most misleading things i have seen on TLS, and that is saying a lot.

Care to be more specific, chief?

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