Rate my softs Forum

Zach0901 · Post by **Zach0901** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:01 pm

Im looking for as critical of help as possible in getting a realistic view of my softs. People I talk to in other fields seem to be impressed by my resume but they dont know what law schools are looking for so I would like as much help as possible in finding out how my softs will compare to others.

I have had 2 different internships at top 100 big law firms (Squire Sanders & Dempsey, Thompson Hine) both out of cleveland in my first two years of undergrad and I have an interview with Jones Day in the upcoming week for a position with them this summer. Both firms asked me back for a follow-up internship over winter break and I took both. The main reason for the switch was SSD had to cut their intern program so I jumped to TH but now with Jones Day on the horizon Id likely make a move in an effort to gain more of a national name on my resume. I am 1 of 17 students to be on the Student Supreme Court for the upcoming term and I also have held leadership positions while in college in my international business organization and my pre-law society. Finally Ive worked as a tour guide and admissions liason for the admissions department during undergrad while getting a double major in Business Legal Studies & Political Science.

I plan on trying to attend law school right after undergrad and with my current LSAT work Ill likely have a low 170s score and my horrendous cum GPA of 3.2 to go with on my application. My (pipe) dream is Duke but more realistically Im interested in USC, UNC, BC and OSU. Let me know what you think, any advice would be extremely helpful!

fatduck · Post by **fatduck** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:04 pm

I give you a 7 on the Mohs hardness scale.

akili · Post by **akili** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:04 pm

Those are pretty solid (and impressive softs). I would focus on your LSAT score though because softs can only help a little at the borders, aka they aren't going to get you in if you don't have the LSAT (and you didn't cure cancer). If you can get in the 170s you'll have some great options.

AP-375 · Post by **AP-375** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:09 pm

I think they are good softs, but not amazing enough to swing your application beyond your LSAT score. That's the ticket. They'll at least give you something to write about in your personal statement and maybe lead to a good letter of recommendation, but I wouldn't expect much more.

Sandro · Post by **Sandro** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:20 pm

cum GPA of 3.2

Dude - delay graduation to boost your gpa. I didnt really read your whole post but assuming you score high 160's/170s your gpa is going to be a killer.

bp shinners · Post by **bp shinners** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:46 pm

Sandro wrote:
cum GPA of 3.2
Dude - delay graduation to boost your gpa. I didnt really read your whole post but assuming you score high 160's/170s your gpa is going to be a killer.

What he said.

I graduated law school 2 years ago and have friends with less experience in the law than you, so that's great. Your other extracurriculars have depth (you're seriously involved with a few instead of a 'member' of a million), and they sound impressive on paper (though I have no way of knowing how prestigious that court thing is without doing research).

The GPA is low, though, especially with everything else you have going for you. I know you only asked for advice on your softs, but the GPA is something that, with some planning, you can mitigate a bit. Look into how your school grades and sends into LSDAS to see if you can bump it up a bit. Also, figure out a GPA addendum to write.

Finally, gotta throw out some love for BC. I went there for undergrad and don't regret a second of my time there (probably because I was too drunk to remember when bad stuff happened).

Zach0901 · Post by **Zach0901** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:29 pm

Thanks for all the help guys but with my current financial situation I dont think I can really afford to take another year of undergrad and then pay the 200k for a t14 education. What kind of addendums can you think to write for my gpa? Honestly there really is no excuse since I didnt really put forth much effort and just coasted above the 3.0 mark to keep my scholarship and I didnt really start putting effort forward until I realized I wanted to go to law school. Clearly not what admissions counselors will want to hear but hopefully this will give everyone better insight to what Im dealing with

maine08080 · Post by **maine08080** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:04 pm

Your softs are good, but they won't out-perform your numbers during your admissions cycle. Grades and LSAT are your #1 priority right now.

Zach0901 wrote:I am 1 of 17 students to be on the Student Supreme Court for the upcoming term

^

I'm personally curious about this. Please explain.

HarveyBirdman · Post by **HarveyBirdman** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:07 pm

How the hell do you get internships at big law firms as an undergrad? I didn't think such a thing was possible.

And we both live around Cleveland! Shit, I want to work at Jones Day this summer. I'm an accounting major with a 4.0. I've worked the same shitty retail job for the last three years. I'm about ready to blow my brains out there.

Seriously, assuming you get this Jones Day thing (how do you even hear about such an opening??) you will have interned at three separate big ass firms in Cleveland before even starting law school. I'm over here scraping the bowels of the internet looking for an entry level bookkeeping job that'll pay at least $10/hr, and you've got real shit to put on your resume.

Teach me your ways.

edit: Just checked their web site out of extreme curiosity and I don't see anything for undergrad students. I see the summer associates program (for current law students)...and god damn that pays $12,000 a month. But really what program are you referring to because I want to at least apply.

fatduck · Post by **fatduck** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:08 pm

maine08080 wrote:Your softs are good, but they won't out-perform your numbers during your admissions cycle. Grades and LSAT are your #1 priority right now.

Zach0901 wrote:I am 1 of 17 students to be on the Student Supreme Court for the upcoming term
^ I'm personally curious about this. Please explain.

court packing

TheTopBloke · Post by **TheTopBloke** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:09 pm

Softs don't mean shit.

robotclubmember · Post by **robotclubmember** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:07 pm

Well. It's clear OP is connected. I live in Cleveland and can assure you, there are no jobs. I know peopke with gpas higher than a 3.2 working at starbucks after they graduated here. So I don't think he needs t14 to get big law if he got his foot in the door with a 3.2 (and well-connected pappy). Duke is out with that gpa, northwestern with w/e or uva ed is the obvious answer. Uva ed is what I would do if you swing a 170 or higher. Your softs are great, hope you remember to thank your dad when you get into uva.

The Real Jack McCoy · Post by **The Real Jack McCoy** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:01 pm

fatduck wrote:
maine08080 wrote:Your softs are good, but they won't out-perform your numbers during your admissions cycle. Grades and LSAT are your #1 priority right now.

Zach0901 wrote:I am 1 of 17 students to be on the Student Supreme Court for the upcoming term
^ I'm personally curious about this. Please explain.
court packing

180

Zach0901 · Post by **Zach0901** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:58 pm

Alright Ill try and address everything posted:

What is the student supreme court?
At my undergrad school when you break the student ethics code (underage drinking, physical altercations, etc.) you have the option of trying to appeal your situation by explaining extenuating circumstances to either a school administrator or the student supreme court. The court is chosen each year by school administrators and the 17 justices are constantly being circulated so that you are not often with the same justices while hearing cases. I hear about 2 cases a week sometimes up to 5. Its a pretty cool experience aside from the obvious resume implications

How did I get my internships?
When I was in high school I worked with the Ohio Investigative Unit as one of those people who attempts to purchase cigarettes while underage and then alcohol after I turned 18 but before I turned 21. One of the officers I worked with had a friend who worked at SSD. During freshman year I told him I thought law school seemed interesting and he offered to set me up with his friend to discuss what being an attorney is like. I met with him and he apparently was impressed by me and offered to talk to their HR person to see if I could just help out around the office. I essentially got paid to become a glorified mailroom worker. When SSD told me they had to cut my "program"(I loved how they told me my delivery boy routine was a program) I simply called all of the big name firms and sent out my resume seeing if anyone would need any assistance over the summer and TH responded. The way I got connected to Jones Day was through my neighbor who is one of their HR reps and offered to discuss with the head HR manager about me working there. Hopefully my interview goes well and I will have that position.

Robotclubmember- Im sorry your friends are failures, Im also sorry you automatically assumed I was well connected because of family ties instead of simple luck and good impressions on people that matter. Finally Im sorry youre pathetic enough to try and make me feel inferior via a free online blog site, Im only on here for help from people who have more experience than I do, if I wanted some guy Ive never met before to turn my posts into derogatory comments about me I would post an ad on craigslist for some casual encounter no strings attached fun, but then again you might just as readily respond to that.

Thanks everyone for the help and I really was curious where my softs stood!

Stringer Bell · Post by **Stringer Bell** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:07 pm

robotclubmember wrote:Well. It's clear OP is connected. I live in Cleveland and can assure you, there are no jobs. I know peopke with gpas higher than a 3.2 working at starbucks after they graduated here. So I don't think he needs t14 to get big law if he got his foot in the door with a 3.2 (and well-connected pappy). Duke is out with that gpa, northwestern with w/e or uva ed is the obvious answer. Uva ed is what I would do if you swing a 170 or higher. Your softs are great, hope you remember to thank your dad when you get into uva.

Robotclub makes a valid point here. Without nepotism, all jobs are distributed perfectly by desirability according to the GPA of the job seeker.

Zach0901 · Post by **Zach0901** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:17 pm

Im not saying his point isnt valid, Im just stating its not 100% accurate in my circumstances. Furthermore a world without nepotism has never and will never exist so I dont understand what it would matter in furthering a discussion about that or how that impacts my stats and my chances of getting into school. I posted under the admissions forum for an objective analysis, not a lesson on marxism and the oppression of the proletariat by the bourgesie(misspelled).

AP-375 · Post by **AP-375** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:20 pm

Zach0901 wrote: Robotclubmember- Im sorry your friends are failures, Im also sorry you automatically assumed I was well connected because of family ties instead of simple luck and good impressions on people that matter. Finally Im sorry youre pathetic enough to try and make me feel inferior via a free online blog site, Im only on here for help from people who have more experience than I do, if I wanted some guy Ive never met before to turn my posts into derogatory comments about me I would post an ad on craigslist for some casual encounter no strings attached fun, but then again you might just as readily respond to that.

I think this is one of the best TLS retort/smackdowns I've seen. Maybe it was the low # poster going against the high # poster, idk. Maybe it was the tricolon structure or the anaphora. Just liked it.

That said, if you're not using personal or professional connections (i.e. networking), you're not doing it right. No shame in connections.

robotclubmember · Post by **robotclubmember** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:27 pm

Zach0901 wrote: Robotclubmember- Im sorry your friends are failures, Im also sorry you automatically assumed I was well connected because of family ties instead of simple luck and good impressions on people that matter. Finally Im sorry youre pathetic enough to try and make me feel inferior via a free online blog site, Im only on here for help from people who have more experience than I do, if I wanted some guy Ive never met before to turn my posts into derogatory comments about me I would post an ad on craigslist for some casual encounter no strings attached fun, but then again you might just as readily respond to that.

Lol. Well played. That said, I still gave you the best advice here, which is UVA ED. 3.2w 170+, solid softs, and you're in.

I would have been less rude if the whole premise of this post wasn't a needy cry for validation. A simple perusal of this site should spell out the obvious: your softs are very good. Having people in the field tell you the same should have eliminated the need for this thread. You posting here with those softs, projecting a 170+ LSAT, is like when someone goes for a chance me and they're a 174/3.9 URM. What's the point. For the schools you are looking at, get a 170 like you believe you can, and you have nothing to worry about but understand that any evaluation of your softs is useless when taken out of the context of your LSAT score. Take the test and then come back if you still aren't confident in your app and want an appraisal.

Oh, and don't be so touchy, it's the internet. Everyone on this forum knows I'm a dickhead and they tell me so pretty often. It doesn't mean my advice is bad, and calling my friends failures and me pathetic kind of makes you as big of a tool as I am. EDIT - I'm also pretty sure I'm not a marxist, lol.

predent/prelaw · Post by **predent/prelaw** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:28 pm

Zach0901 wrote:Im looking for as critical of help as possible in getting a realistic view of my softs. People I talk to in other fields seem to be impressed by my resume but they dont know what law schools are looking for so I would like as much help as possible in finding out how my softs will compare to others.

I have had 2 different internships at top 100 big law firms (Squire Sanders & Dempsey, Thompson Hine) both out of cleveland in my first two years of undergrad and I have an interview with Jones Day in the upcoming week for a position with them this summer. Both firms asked me back for a follow-up internship over winter break and I took both. The main reason for the switch was SSD had to cut their intern program so I jumped to TH but now with Jones Day on the horizon Id likely make a move in an effort to gain more of a national name on my resume. I am 1 of 17 students to be on the Student Supreme Court for the upcoming term and I also have held leadership positions while in college in my international business organization and my pre-law society. Finally Ive worked as a tour guide and admissions liason for the admissions department during undergrad while getting a double major in Business Legal Studies & Political Science.

I plan on trying to attend law school right after undergrad and with my current LSAT work Ill likely have a low 170s score and my horrendous cum GPA of 3.2 to go with on my application. My (pipe) dream is Duke but more realistically Im interested in USC, UNC, BC and OSU. Let me know what you think, any advice would be extremely helpful!

Hot damn

parsi · Post by **parsi** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:32 pm

Zach0901 wrote: How did I get my internships?
When I was in high school I worked with the Ohio Investigative Unit as one of those people who attempts to purchase cigarettes while underage and then alcohol after I turned 18 but before I turned 21

Fuckin narc. Gtfo

flexityflex86 · Post by **flexityflex86** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:32 pm

I think if OP breaks a 170, they'll have decent options. If they work hard and perform in LS, long term that could be a smarter move than losing a full year of their career. If they get a 172 and ED to Duke, I think they have a shot.

predent/prelaw · Post by **predent/prelaw** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:34 pm

parsi wrote:
Zach0901 wrote: How did I get my internships?
When I was in high school I worked with the Ohio Investigative Unit as one of those people who attempts to purchase cigarettes while underage and then alcohol after I turned 18 but before I turned 21
F(@kin narc. Gtfo

gwuorbust · Post by **gwuorbust** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:00 pm

unless you founded Microsoft, saved a species of Whales or an entire African country. . softs are next to irrelevant*.

*unless you've done absolutely nothing, which is a negative.

HarveyBirdman · Post by **HarveyBirdman** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:24 am

Zach, you said "hopefully my interview goes well and I will have that position" when talking about Jones Day. Well, exactly what position would that be? On the surface, you've worked at two (probably three soon) law firms. But from what you said, you were like a mail clerk. So there's no relevance to the law involved in your duties, eh? Sure you're around lawyers and likely using your networking skills to pick their brains a little and get to know people, but I dunno...it seems like there's not much depth there. I mean what if I got a job at the cafeteria at Jones Day? It seems along the same kind of line.

But I have no idea how admissions people, or HR people for that matter, think so maybe I'm way off. Maybe they see the firm name and start offering you cash on the spot, no questions asked. I'm just trying to dissect this for my own benefit.

Zach0901 · Post by **Zach0901** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:35 am

Harvey-I think thats a totallly legitimate claim although I dont think I agree to the extent of the cafeteria. The only reason I called it interning is because that is what the firms have called it. I dont think this has given me any serious edge in the actual field of law I just think that having the names behind me and talking about my experience getting to understand the intricacies of how a law firm works and the "teamwork"(there really isnt any but Im sure I can claim there was) involved. I too have no idea how admissions people work but both "intenships" were paid so working there beat working somewhere else even if the experience really had no law relevance. If I were you with that GPA Id call some of the major firms in cleveland just asking if they need any help around the office over the summer, even if youre working in the mailroom or doing what I did at TH and entering data you can spin it in a way that makes it seem like you were doing a lot more than what you are. For instance:

At TH I entered/organized data and altered images to be used in litigation cases so I translated that to this on my resume:
"Worked with the litigation department to prepare materials for cases going to trial in order to support attorneys and clients of the firm...etc"

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