best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

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sangr
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best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby sangr » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:23 pm

ok so we all know its getting harder to practice patent law w/o a science background

but assuming one still wants to pursue that path (patent litigation or any other venues?) what would
one do before law school...and during to best ensure a possible career

any input? thanks

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bk1
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby bk1 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:27 pm

Prior to law school? Go get that science degree!

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predent/prelaw
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby predent/prelaw » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:31 pm

bk1 wrote:Prior to law school? Go get that science degree!


vagi
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sangr
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby sangr » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:37 pm

1)what would be the most practical way to get a degree in science? if youve already graduated undergrad?

2) any other preparations or things to do to help you break into the sector for after law school?

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bk1
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby bk1 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:59 pm

My response was mostly tongue-in-cheek. I really know nothing about this.

I would actually hazard a guess that going and getting a second degree is probably the best bet for assuring yourself IP. How? I have no idea. It definitely doesn't seem worth it though.

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hipstermafia
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby hipstermafia » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:03 pm

predent/prelaw wrote:
bk1 wrote:Prior to law school? Go get that science degree!


What if you switched out of Bio BS but meet the Patent bar requirements?
like I have taken 12 hours general bio, 4 hours Neuro, 4 hours A&P, Organic chem 1, 12 hours gen chem? and 4 hours Plant Bio?

i think general consensus is that you need an advanced degree (usually phd) for biotech prosecution. not sure what else you could do within prosecution with that background though

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androstan
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby androstan » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:23 pm

predent/prelaw wrote:
bk1 wrote:Prior to law school? Go get that science degree!


What if you switched out of Bio BS but meet the Patent bar requirements?
like I have taken 12 hours general bio, 4 hours Neuro, 4 hours A&P, Organic chem 1, 12 hours gen chem? and 4 hours Plant Bio?


If you have enough bio under your belt to qualify for the patent bar, you could probably get a bio master's program to accept you. Complete that in 2 years then go to law school.

All they care about for patent LIT is your marketability. The ability to list science degrees next to their patent litigators gives them an edge with clients, I believe. A masters would fulfill that need.

Otoh for patent pro in biotech you need a PhD.

sangr
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby sangr » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:36 pm

so since an advanced degree is generally wanted. am i screwed with having a degree completely unrelated to it?

i have to admit that im far detached in my academic history from science. however IP law definetely is a track
i would like to take.

what should one in my case do?

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androstan
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby androstan » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:53 pm

sangr wrote:so since an advanced degree is generally wanted. am i screwed with having a degree completely unrelated to it?

i have to admit that im far detached in my academic history from science. however IP law definetely is a track
i would like to take.

what should one in my case do?


Without an undergrad in science I don't think any bio/chem PhD program will take you. I also don't think any MS engineering program will take you.

As such, if you want to do IP, you should gun for patent litigation. Passing the patent bar will at least make you a little more competitive, but it hurts not having the degree. I think the coursework to qualify can be done part-time in 2 years or full time in one year + summer. Choose from:

i. Option 1: Physics - 24 semester hours in physics. The courses must be for physics majors (for example, physics with calculus, as opposed to physics without calculus.)

ii. Option 2: Biology - 8 semester hours in chemistry or physics, plus 24 semester hours in biological sciences. Only biology, botany, microbiology, and molecular biology courses can be used for this option. The 8 hours in chemistry or physics must be in 2 sequential courses (that is, two courses which contain one curriculum, such as Physics 1 and Physics 2, or Chemistry 1 and Chemistry 2.) These courses must have a lab component, and like Option 1, must be intended for majors in the subject.

iii. Option 3: Chemistry - Option 3 is like Option 1, except that it requires 30 hours of Chemistry courses. Again, only courses for majors are accepted.

iv. Option 4: Science/Engineering – For this option, you need 8 hours in Chemistry or Physics like Option 2 (two sequential courses for majors with a lab), and in addition, 32 semester hours in science or engineering courses. These can include: chemistry, physics, biology, botany, microbiology, molecular biology, or engineering. Computer science courses can qualify if they’re technical enough (see the GRB for more information). 4 hours in design engineering or drafting can be used. Note that if you have, for example, 12 semester hours in physics or chemistry, you can use 8 of them to meet the first part of the requirement and put the other 4 towards the second part.


Option 4 seems the most enticing because the other 3 require you to take a lot of credit hours in one discipline, which often means taking more advanced courses in that discipline. It's also the only option that you can get through without taking any calculus. You might do something like:

Semester 1 (16 credits):
Physics I
Gen. Chem. I
Bio I
Other science

Semester 2 (16 credits):
Physics II
Gen. Chem. II
Bio II
Other Science

Summer 1 (4 credits):
Organic Chemistry I

Summer 2 (4 credits):
Organic Chemistry II

If you did option 1-3 you might be able to get a masters program in the respective discipline to take you. A masters would give you a significant leg up. But like I said, options 1-3 are going to be significantly harder. You'll be taking core junior/senior level science courses intended for students majoring in those subjects. A masters won't be a walk in the park either and will take 2 years. You're looking at 3 years of coursework to get your masters.

You would, however, be about as competitive as you could be for patent lit (besides graduating from HYS).

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predent/prelaw
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby predent/prelaw » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:47 pm

va
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Big Shrimpin
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby Big Shrimpin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:52 pm

Note: I'm a 2L going into patent biglaw.

You've got a infinitesimally small chance of getting a patent law jerb without a science degree (barring some kind of ridiculously extensive WE). You've got a shot at soft IP like copyrights or trademarks, however, since there are no science prerequisites for those areas.

Sorry, dood!

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androstan
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby androstan » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:56 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:Note: I'm a 2L going into patent biglaw.

You've got a infinitesimally small chance of getting a patent law jerb without a science degree (barring some kind of ridiculously extensive WE). You've got a shot at soft IP like copyrights or trademarks, however, since there are no science prerequisites for those areas.

Sorry, dood!


But like I said, if OP takes courses to qualify via, say, option 3 in category B I bet s/he could get a chemistry MS program to accept him/her. Not a great one, but a program nonetheless where s/he would work in the lab on a project and possibly publish a paper.

It's a tough path, 3 years of intensive science, but it would make OP competitive for patent lit (assuming grades/prestige in LS).

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby Big Shrimpin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:24 pm

androstan wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:Note: I'm a 2L going into patent biglaw.

You've got a infinitesimally small chance of getting a patent law jerb without a science degree (barring some kind of ridiculously extensive WE). You've got a shot at soft IP like copyrights or trademarks, however, since there are no science prerequisites for those areas.

Sorry, dood!


But like I said, if OP takes courses to qualify via, say, option 3 in category B I bet s/he could get a chemistry MS program to accept him/her. Not a great one, but a program nonetheless where s/he would work in the lab on a project and possibly publish a paper.

It's a tough path, 3 years of intensive science, but it would make OP competitive for patent lit (assuming grades/prestige in LS).


Fair assessment. Still, it'll be a tough road to hoe.

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predent/prelaw
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby predent/prelaw » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:31 pm

gi
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geoduck
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby geoduck » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:39 pm

Notice how OP didn't say "Patent law" but only one poster has mentioned Copyright or Trademark.

Hmmmm....

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predent/prelaw
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby predent/prelaw » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:43 pm

na
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Bildungsroman
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:47 pm

geoduck wrote:Notice how OP didn't say "Patent law" but only one poster has mentioned Copyright or Trademark.

Hmmmm....

sangr wrote:ok so we all know its getting harder to practice patent law w/o a science background

but assuming one still wants to pursue that path (patent litigation or any other venues?) what would
one do before law school...and during to best ensure a possible career

any input? thanks

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geoduck
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby geoduck » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:52 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
geoduck wrote:Notice how OP didn't say "Patent law" but only one poster has mentioned Copyright or Trademark.

Hmmmm....

sangr wrote:ok so we all know its getting harder to practice patent law w/o a science background

but assuming one still wants to pursue that path (patent litigation or any other venues?) what would
one do before law school...and during to best ensure a possible career

any input? thanks


Yes, it would appear that I dun fucked up. Went off the title and misread the post. :o

I just wish people would stop using IP law as a catchall title for Patent law. Copyright and Trademark aren't exactly tiny issues in this day and age.

sangr
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby sangr » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:56 pm

hey guys

actually I purposely wrote the title like that because I also wanted input regarding trademarks and copyrights. but I wrote regarding patent in my actual post b/c that was a bigger concern for me. I should've clarified. but yeah I would like to know bout trademark prep too but I'm guessing it's just go to law school and study hard?

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Bildungsroman
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:03 pm

geoduck wrote:
I just wish people would stop using IP law as a catchall title for Patent law.

I can definitely agree with this.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby Big Shrimpin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:26 pm

geoduck wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
geoduck wrote:Notice how OP didn't say "Patent law" but only one poster has mentioned Copyright or Trademark.

Hmmmm....

sangr wrote:ok so we all know its getting harder to practice patent law w/o a science background

but assuming one still wants to pursue that path (patent litigation or any other venues?) what would
one do before law school...and during to best ensure a possible career

any input? thanks


Yes, it would appear that I dun fucked up. Went off the title and misread the post. :o

I just wish people would stop using IP law as a catchall title for Patent law. Copyright and Trademark aren't exactly tiny issues in this day and age.


There's your answer, dood. If someone conflates IP and patents at the exclusion of copyrights and trademarks, then don't listen to them because they're obviously a noob.

OP, you're going to be hard-pressed to get some good information form poasters in the law school admission forum about going into copyright/trademark practice. In fact, copyright/trademarks are niche practices and while many large firms have groups encompassing those areas, few large firms (relatively speaking, since there are quite a few "large" firms in the US...e.g. more than 100) have truly extensive copyright/trademark practices. Of all the large firms I visited during OCI, a bunch had copyright/trademark practices of more than just a handful of attorneys. As far as hiring for those groups, you'd probably be lucky to find them hiring a few SAs, depending on the size of the practice. Your best bet for serious copyright/trademark practice: have a great GPA/LSAT combination, have some analogous work experience/WE that transposes in some way onto copyright/trademark practice, and get into a great school (T10, at least). If you do those things, you'll have better odds of landing a copyright/trademark gig than if you were to spin a roulette wheel with three colors (albeit only slightly better odds). I'm not trying to dissuade you, but since we've already taken patent law off the table (which, I might add, is much easier to break into than copyright/trademark), we've got to be realistic with tempering our expectations about the jerb market.

Note: I'm a legal employment forum dweller, and I rarely leave unless someone asks a question IP/patent-related. Search my poast history. I've made it a point to give this kind of advice, as I believe that in the TLS echo-chamber, there are poasters who genuinely know what they're talking about (I could name a bunch, but some patent doods are...Bosque, rayiner, amylachemist, etc...). Hopefully, this has helped. For further research, I'd direct you to (since TLS is not going to be of much help):

1. Google
2. Prospective school admissions offices
2a. Ask them about job opportunities for copyright/trademark placement
2b. Ask them for numbers about firms coming to OCI, students hired, etc..
2c. Ask them for joint-program/whatever information that has to do with copyright/trademark stuff

GL!

Black-Blue
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby Black-Blue » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:21 pm

Best way to get into patent prosecution without a science undergrad is to get a science graduate degree. The feasibility of this depends on how many science courses you took in undergrad, but in general, I don't think you absolutely need a science UG to get a science grad degree.
.

When Biology BS people are already struggling due to the lack of an advanced degree, it seems clear that Agricultural Business would be even harder.
Last edited by Black-Blue on Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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predent/prelaw
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Re: best way to have IP law career w/o science undergrad

Postby predent/prelaw » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:38 pm

Black-Blue wrote:Best way to get into patent prosecution without a science undergrad is to get a science graduate degree. The feasibility of this depends on how many science courses you took in undergrad, but in general, I don't think you absolutely need a science UG to get a science grad degree.
predent/prelaw wrote:Ok so please do not "quote this"
So if one was an vagina lol they would have no chance at IP? Would they be better off switching to Plant Biology B.S. (I don't wanna go back to vagina I have to take biochem in that one lol) Also by switching to PB they would have to take Organic II engineering Physics I&II and Genetics and a crap ton of Botany their senior year would that really be necessary to keep IP law open?

When Biology BS people are already struggling due to the lack of an advanced degree, it seems clear that Agricultural Business would be even harder.

Thanks so PB? and can you not quote me ?




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