Getting Into Law School with High GPA, but Low LSAT's

[Craplicant150]

Thanks I've heard enough from the law students that really need a life other than to go on here everyday after classes and blog....Especially how the schools listed are worthless. It's funny how they would never say that to anyone in person who goes to these schools. I obviously am retaking as I said from the start, and appreciate the helpful tips on preparing. Thank you

Actually, I would have no problem telling a TTTT student that they go to a shitty school and will graduate hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with no job prospects. It's the truth.

But what I don't understand is why you post on here asking for advice and then dismiss any advice that isn't what you want to hear as "unhelpful". Your situation sucks and no one here is going to pull punches just to spare your feelings. You came looking for honest advice and you're getting it. I'm sorry if you don't like it. If you want actual solutions to your problem, then you're in the right place. If you just want to be coddled, then I suggest calling your mother.

You're also going to need much thicker skin if you're going to survive law school and a legal career.

He asks for advice, and he gets berated by insincere snarky garbage. Instead of simply recommending that he sits out this cycle, they say things like "When 83% of test takers do better than you, then maybe you should try another profession".

[sundance95]

He asks for advice, and he gets berated by insincere snarky garbage. Instead of simply recommending that he sits out this cycle, they say things like "When 83% of test takers do better than you, then maybe you should try another profession".

He was told to retake, and if he couldn't do better, then he shouldn't go to law school. You might not like it, but that's solid advice that might save him from a lifetime of unserviceable, undischargable student loan debt with little to no job prospects.

[sparty99]

My gpa/LSAT is very similar to you. I posted the same question a couple of months ago and was told I would be accepted into tier 4s. Ha!

I applied to a number of programs (all of them top 100) and I've been accepted. Now, I would advise retaking the LSAT or gaining work experience. If I did not have work experience, I would have been rejected from every school I applied to.

With your LSAT score you will probably get zero scholarships (directly from the universities), but there are outside scholarships and you can apply to part-time programs which means you will be graduating with little debt (assuming you work FT, go study law PT).

Do not listen to anyone who says if you do bad on the LSAT then you should seek a new profession. The LSAT has nothing to do with being an attorney. The only concern that I might have is if you can pass the BAR (the admissions committee will also have this concern), but the BAR and the LSAT are not exactly alike.

WTF kind of work experience did you have to get over that kind of LSAT hurdle? By my (read: LSN's and LSP's) calculation the only Top 100 schools you would actually have a shot at are William Mitchell and UII which are both TTTT despite ranking (look at actual employment numbers.)
I need to get into your line of work!

I worked in a demanding industry that is similar to the field of law. In addition, I went above and beyond in my applications so the committee would focus less on my LSAT score. I was accepted into full-time and part-time programs.

[alexonfyre]

He asks for advice, and he gets berated by insincere snarky garbage. Instead of simply recommending that he sits out this cycle, they say things like "When 83% of test takers do better than you, then maybe you should try another profession".

He was told to retake, and if he couldn't do better, then he shouldn't go to law school. You might not like it, but that's solid advice that might save him from a lifetime of unserviceable, undischargable student loan debt with little to no job prospects.

Successful troll is successful.

My gpa/LSAT is very similar to you. I posted the same question a couple of months ago and was told I would be accepted into tier 4s. Ha!

I applied to a number of programs (all of them top 100) and I've been accepted. Now, I would advise retaking the LSAT or gaining work experience. If I did not have work experience, I would have been rejected from every school I applied to.

With your LSAT score you will probably get zero scholarships (directly from the universities), but there are outside scholarships and you can apply to part-time programs which means you will be graduating with little debt (assuming you work FT, go study law PT).

Do not listen to anyone who says if you do bad on the LSAT then you should seek a new profession. The LSAT has nothing to do with being an attorney. The only concern that I might have is if you can pass the BAR (the admissions committee will also have this concern), but the BAR and the LSAT are not exactly alike.

WTF kind of work experience did you have to get over that kind of LSAT hurdle? By my (read: LSN's and LSP's) calculation the only Top 100 schools you would actually have a shot at are William Mitchell and UII which are both TTTT despite ranking (look at actual employment numbers.)
I need to get into your line of work!

I worked in a demanding industry that is similar to the field of law. In addition, I went above and beyond in my applications so the committee would focus less on my LSAT score. I was accepted into full-time and part-time programs.

Sorry, but I am still having trouble here, I can only think of two industries: maybe IB and Law Enforcement that are similar to law. If I felt I could excel in the latter then I likely wouldn't be taking the law school gamble right now, also I don't think I could get much past the beat cop stage of policing before I had to apply to law school for being too old.

[Curry]

Another one of these "i'm going to be butthurt because i'm being told i'm not a special snowflake" threads?

[Magnolia]

Thanks I've heard enough from the law students that really need a life other than to go on here everyday after classes and blog....Especially how the schools listed are worthless. It's funny how they would never say that to anyone in person who goes to these schools. I obviously am retaking as I said from the start, and appreciate the helpful tips on preparing. Thank you

This forum is full of pretentious dbags....

You are not in a horrible situation. Your GPA more than likely good enough to get you into a decent T3 program with a 150-152 LSAT.

If you really want to go to Law School next cycle then apply to Cooley, Charlotte School of Law, and Florida A&M. With a 142 LSAT those are the only three ABA schools that could admit you. My guess is you will get acceptance from 2/3.

There are plenty of successful lawyers from schoos like Cooley. Graduates who pass the bar from those schools are lawyers and often have successful careers. There truly is little difference between a school that would let you in with a 150152 or Cooley. If you score a 165+ have you can probably get into a T14 school, but there are 200 ABA schools and only 14 T14 schools. Very and let me repeat the word Very few students get into these schools. The vast majority of lawyers went to a tier 3,4 school. The majority of judges went to a tier 2,3,4 school. Obviously not at the Supreme Court level, but almost any lawyer you meet will not have attended Harvard, Yale, or Berkeley. An employer is not going to be that impressed that you went to a tier 3 school opposed to a tier 4 school. They will care about your performance at the school.

MoreoMC questions on the bar are much of an indicator that you will be a good attorney, but it is what it is. A few points here and there make a huge difference again when you go to law school the curve is brutal. Everybody is intelligent and a few points can mean the difference between being the top 10% of the class or the top 30% of the class. When employers come to interview at a number of schools they will tell career services we ONLY want applicants in the top 20% of the class. If you are not in the top 20% of the class you cannot even apply. If you were in the top 21% of the class then you can't apply. When you argue cases almost always BOTH SIDES will have good arguments and put in hundreds of hours of work. Being one percent better than the other side wins the case and gets your client 5 million dollars, gets him out of jail, etc. It is a strict profession and it is far from fair or accurate, but it is what it is.

This advice might have been ok if the economy hadn't crashed. Problem is, it did crash. And there are significantly more law school graduates than there are legal jobs. Yes, currently practicing attorneys went to schools from all tiers. That isn't the test. The test is where people are being hired from today. I guarantee you employers aren't flocking in droves to Cooley. Those top 14 schools you're referring to, the ones where "very few" law students go, those schools can't place all of their graduates in legal jobs. BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ENOUGH FUCKING JOBS FOR EVERYONE WHO GRADUATES. Why in the world would people hire Cooley graduates when they could hire someone from Michigan, Penn, Chicago, NU or any of the other many, far better schools, that are nearby, all of which have unemployed graduates? The point of going to a good school isn't to have prestige to laud over others. It's to get a goddamn job.

The advice we're giving on this board isn't an elitist thing. It's a fucking common sense thing.

edited for egregious typo

[Magnolia]

Question for the thread: have you all gotten an awesomely passive-aggressive PM from the OP, or am I a special snowflake?

[sundance95]

Successful troll is successful.

Maybe. I find that many on TLS assume trolldom because no one could possibly be that stupid. (e.g., the first page of this thread) I've come to understand, however, that some most actually are that stupid.

[sundance95]

Question for the thread: have you all gotten an awesomely passive-aggressive PM from the OP, or am I a special snowflake?

Special snowflake! Share nowz.

[fltanglab]

edit- answer found

[gwuorbust]

THEY'RE AREN'T ENOUGH FUCKING JOBS FOR EVERYONE WHO GRADUATES. Why in the world would people hire Cooley graduates when they could hire someone from Michigan, Penn, Chicago, NU or any of the other many, far better schools, that are nearby, all of which have unemployed graduates? The point of going to a good school isn't to have prestige to laud over others. It's to get a goddamn job.

The advice we're giving on this board isn't an elitist thing. It's a fucking common sense thing.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

This advice might have been ok if the economy hadn't crashed. Problem is, it did crash. And there are significantly more law school graduates than there are legal jobs. Yes, currently practicing attorneys went to schools from all tiers. That isn't the test. The test is where people are being hired from today. I guarantee you employers aren't flocking in droves to Cooley. Those top 14 schools you're referring to, the ones where "very few" law students go, those schools can't place all of their graduates in legal jobs. BECAUSE THEY'RE AREN'T ENOUGH FUCKING JOBS FOR EVERYONE WHO GRADUATES. Why in the world would people hire Cooley graduates when they could hire someone from Michigan, Penn, Chicago, NU or any of the other many, far better schools, that are nearby, all of which have unemployed graduates? The point of going to a good school isn't to have prestige to laud over others. It's to get a goddamn job.

The advice we're giving on this board isn't an elitist thing. It's a fucking common sense thing.

There was a painful oversupply of lawyers before the economy crashed, that was never good advice.

OP, I would say in state tuition at UConn should be the lowest you would want to go, and even then you're going to be looking at an uphill battle, for that you simply do need about a 160 minimum. Devote your life to the LSAT and good luck.

[esq]

Question for the thread: have you all gotten an awesomely passive-aggressive PM from the OP, or am I a special snowflake?

Nope, just a regular snowflake. This guy is either really unstable, or one of the all time most entertaining trolls I've encountered.

[Magnolia]

edit- answer found

Would you mind sharing? I'm curious and I can't remember if I was saying before I found TLS or I picked it up here.

[Craplicant150]

Magnoilia....

The fact that graduating from a T14 school doesn't guaranty you a job supports the idea that in an economic downturn it is less important where you graduate from.

If you read my assessment carefully you would see that I had stressed the importance of doing well in Law School. We all want to be lawyers. The only way to do that is to go to law school. Schools like Cooley at least give you that chance.

[jackjackson]

Magnoilia....

The fact that graduating from a T14 school doesn't guaranty you a job supports the idea that in an economic downturn it is less important where you graduate from.

If you read my assessment carefully you would see that I had stressed the importance of doing well in Law School. We all want to be lawyers. The only way to do that is to go to law school. Schools like Cooley at least give you that chance.

uh oh

[Magnolia]

Magnoilia....

The fact that graduating from a T14 school doesn't guaranty you a job supports the idea that in an economic downturn it is less important where you graduate from.

If you read my assessment carefully you would see that I had stressed the importance of doing well in Law School. We all want to be lawyers. The only way to do that is to go to law school. Schools like Cooley at least give you that chance.

Um, no. The fact that graduating from a T14 can't get you a job does not mean that it matters less where you graduate from, it means it matters more. Again, why would employers take students from Cooley, regardless of the rank, when they could have their pick of median or above-median students at the best schools in the country? T14 grads aren't unemployed because everyone decided to hire a bunch of TTTT grads instead. It means that people aren't hiring.

I did read your post carefully. I agree that yes, you have to do well in law school if you want a job, no matter where you go. But simply going to law school does not give you a chance to be a lawyer. Going to law school gives you a chance to get a piece of paper that lets you sit for the bar. That's it. I hate to break it to you, but having a JD and passing the bar does not make you a lawyer. Having a job in the legal field does. And you only have a fighting chance of getting a job from a top school.

Edit: It doesn't sound like you want to be a lawyer. If you wanted to be a lawyer, you would be doing everything you could to maximize your chances at the best school possible. It sounds like you just want to be a law student at any cost. So fine, go to Cooley and be a law student. Just don't have any expectation of actually becoming a lawyer after graduation.

[TheFactor]

Thanks I've heard enough from the law students that really need a life other than to go on here everyday after classes and blog....Especially how the schools listed are worthless. It's funny how they would never say that to anyone in person who goes to these schools. I obviously am retaking as I said from the start, and appreciate the helpful tips on preparing. Thank you

This forum is full of pretentious dbags....

You are not in a horrible situation. Your GPA more than likely good enough to get you into a decent T3 program with a 150-152 LSAT.

If you really want to go to Law School next cycle then apply to Cooley, Charlotte School of Law, and Florida A&M. With a 142 LSAT those are the only three ABA schools that could admit you. My guess is you will get acceptance from 2/3.

There are plenty of successful lawyers from schoos like Cooley. Graduates who pass the bar from those schools are lawyers and often have successful careers. There truly is little difference between a school that would let you in with a 150152 or Cooley. If you score a 165+ have you can probably get into a T14 school, but there are 200 ABA schools and only 14 T14 schools. Very and let me repeat the word Very few students get into these schools. The vast majority of lawyers went to a tier 3,4 school. The majority of judges went to a tier 2,3,4 school. Obviously not at the Supreme Court level, but almost any lawyer you meet will not have attended Harvard, Yale, or Berkeley. An employer is not going to be that impressed that you went to a tier 3 school opposed to a tier 4 school. They will care about your performance at the school.

MoreoMC questions on the bar are much of an indicator that you will be a good attorney, but it is what it is. A few points here and there make a huge difference again when you go to law school the curve is brutal. Everybody is intelligent and a few points can mean the difference between being the top 10% of the class or the top 30% of the class. When employers come to interview at a number of schools they will tell career services we ONLY want applicants in the top 20% of the class. If you are not in the top 20% of the class you cannot even apply. If you were in the top 21% of the class then you can't apply. When you argue cases almost always BOTH SIDES will have good arguments and put in hundreds of hours of work. Being one percent better than the other side wins the case and gets your client 5 million dollars, gets him out of jail, etc. It is a strict profession and it is far from fair or accurate, but it is what it is.

[TheFactor]

Magnoilia....

The fact that graduating from a T14 school doesn't guaranty you a job supports the idea that in an economic downturn it is less important where you graduate from.

please elaborate lol

[gwuorbust]

Magnoilia....

The fact that graduating from a T14 school doesn't guaranty you a job supports the idea that in an economic downturn it is less important where you graduate from.

If you read my assessment carefully you would see that I had stressed the importance of doing well in Law School. We all want to be lawyers. The only way to do that is to go to law school. Schools like Cooley at least give you that chance.

1. No. No they do not. There is a greater than likely chance you are going to be worse off graduating from a school like Cooley than you would be not going to law school at all.

2. yes, doing ballin from even a low ranked school may lead to opportunities. here is the problem: there is a 95% chance you will not be in the top 5%. and then you are screwed. sorry, but even vegas odds aren't that bad. and don't give me the "work hard and you will succeed" bullshit. EVERYONE is working hard. if you think you can work harder/better/smarter, you are simply deluding yourself, end of story.

3. IMO nobody should be guaranteed a job. that said, would you take out a mortgage to buy a shiTTTy home when you could get a much better home for a huge discount if you simply waited one year and retook a mortgage aptitude test? b/c that is what paying 250k for a TTTT is like: a 250k mortgage for an inferior product. do yourself a favor and retake the LSAT.

*edit is in red

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

Magnoilia....

The fact that graduating from a T14 school doesn't guaranty you a job supports the idea that in an economic downturn it is less important where you graduate from.

If you read my assessment carefully you would see that I had stressed the importance of doing well in Law School. We all want to be lawyers. The only way to do that is to go to law school. Schools like Cooley at least give you that chance.

Hi! My name is probability! Nice to meet you!

When someone goes to like UVA, they have about a 60+% chance of getting into biglaw or a prestigious clerkship, that means the probability (that's me!) is better than a coinflip. For other kids in that class who end up working at small/midlaw firms, public interest jobs, and other respectable careers, it goes up to over 90%!! Wow that's great!!

When a kid goes to Cooley, his probability is low . At Cooley less than 1/3 of a graduating class will ever have substantive work in the legal profession. Oh no!! That's bad . don't forget, that many of the kids that do get work will be working in very ungratified professions such cheap personal injury firms and insurance defense. Truth be told, a negligible amount of kids from cooley will ever get a job they want Yikes!!

Some kids who go to cooley, many many years after they graduate can make a lot of money! Yay! And some kids who graduate from UVA might be unemployed for a while

but remember!! Because you have no realistic notion of how you're actually going to fair in law school, when you're up against every kid in your class who also wants to do really well, just think of me!! (probability ). Just like a casino! Yay gambling is fun , you'd be better off putting a bunch of money down on a full house at a poker table than you would on red 19, you might lose it all!! . Sometimes people do win on red19, and sometimes people lose on full houses. But thanks to me (probability!) you can disregard those specific incidents and look at the broader picture! YAY!

[sundance95]

Magnoilia....

The fact that graduating from a T14 school doesn't guaranty you a job supports the idea that in an economic downturn it is less important where you graduate from.

If you read my assessment carefully you would see that I had stressed the importance of doing well in Law School. We all want to be lawyers. The only way to do that is to go to law school. Schools like Cooley at least give you that chance.

Hi! My name is probability! Nice to meet you!

When someone goes to like UVA, they have about a 60+% chance of getting into biglaw or a prestigious clerkship, that means the probability (that's me!) is better than a coinflip. For other kids in that class who end up working at small/midlaw firms, public interest jobs, and other respectable careers, it goes up to over 90%!! Wow that's great!!

When a kid goes to Cooley, his probability is low . At Cooley less than 1/3 of a graduating class will ever have substantive work in the legal profession. Oh no!! That's bad . don't forget, that many of the kids that do get work will be working in very ungratified professions such cheap personal injury firms and insurance defense. Truth be told, a negligible amount of kids from cooley will ever get a job they want Yikes!!

Some kids who go to cooley, many many years after they graduate can make a lot of money! Yay! And some kids who graduate from UVA might be unemployed for a while

but remember!! Because you have no realistic notion of how you're actually going to fair in law school, when you're up against every kid in your class who also wants to do really well, just think of me!! (probability ). Just like a casino! Yay gambling is fun , you'd be better off putting a bunch of money down on a full house at a poker table than you would on red 19, you might lose it all!! . Sometimes people do win on red19, and sometimes people lose on full houses. But thanks to me (probability!) you can disregard those specific incidents and look at the broader picture! YAY!

Post of the day, 180 sir.

[esq]

--ImageRemoved--
Craplicant150 giving OP advice, a serious case of the blind leading the blind?

Crap and OP, I really hope that your daddies' nepotism can take care of you both, you're gonna need it.

[fltanglab]

edit- answer found

Would you mind sharing? I'm curious and I can't remember if I was saying before I found TLS or I picked it up here.

I definitely picked it up from my friend, who picked it up here. But some shallow research suggests that it's from Fight Club.

[Craplicant150]

Magnoilia....

The fact that graduating from a T14 school doesn't guaranty you a job supports the idea that in an economic downturn it is less important where you graduate from.

If you read my assessment carefully you would see that I had stressed the importance of doing well in Law School. We all want to be lawyers. The only way to do that is to go to law school. Schools like Cooley at least give you that chance.

Hi! My name is probability! Nice to meet you!

When someone goes to like UVA, they have about a 60+% chance of getting into biglaw or a prestigious clerkship, that means the probability (that's me!) is better than a coinflip. For other kids in that class who end up working at small/midlaw firms, public interest jobs, and other respectable careers, it goes up to over 90%!! Wow that's great!!

When a kid goes to Cooley, his probability is low . At Cooley less than 1/3 of a graduating class will ever have substantive work in the legal profession. Oh no!! That's bad . don't forget, that many of the kids that do get work will be working in very ungratified professions such cheap personal injury firms and insurance defense. Truth be told, a negligible amount of kids from cooley will ever get a job they want Yikes!!

Some kids who go to cooley, many many years after they graduate can make a lot of money! Yay! And some kids who graduate from UVA might be unemployed for a while

but remember!! Because you have no realistic notion of how you're actually going to fair in law school, when you're up against every kid in your class who also wants to do really well, just think of me!! (probability ). Just like a casino! Yay gambling is fun , you'd be better off putting a bunch of money down on a full house at a poker table than you would on red 19, you might lose it all!! . Sometimes people do win on red19, and sometimes people lose on full houses. But thanks to me (probability!) you can disregard those specific incidents and look at the broader picture! YAY!

Yes.... because there are 52 cards in the deck at Cooley.... What a load of crap....

You do realize that the probability of getting ANY job right now is low?