2012 US News & World Report Law School Rankings Forum

[Grizz]

T-14 has been the same since forever, everything else is based on the reputation in the region. UNSWR doesnt change regional reputations

Ironic, because the T14 is arguably east-coast, NYC biased lawl.

Also T14 = national, everything else = regional thing is straight moronic.

[voltage88]

T-14 has been the same since forever, everything else is based on the reputation in the region. UNSWR doesnt change regional reputations

Ironic, because the T14 is arguably east-coast, NYC biased lawl.

Also T14 = national, everything else = regional thing is straight moronic.

Yeah. There are definitely schools worth going to outside of the "T14"

[Grizz]

I think it would be foolish to completely ignore the ramifications of the US News rankings since a lot of people in the legal field do care about it...but don't let it make one of the biggest decisions of your life.

Most people outside of law students, 0Ls, and law school deans don't read them. Most practicing lawyers don't read them and have to idea what they are. Looking at where people get jobs is actually a better idea. But at the top of the rankings, rankings do a decent job of correlating to job-getting power.

[dr123]

T-14 has been the same since forever, everything else is based on the reputation in the region. UNSWR doesnt change regional reputations

Ironic, because the T14 is arguably east-coast, NYC biased lawl.

Also T14 = national, everything else = regional thing is straight moronic.

Yeah. There are definitely schools worth going to outside of the "T14"

I never said "not worth going to" There are T3 schools worth going to in my opinion I was just saying that outside of the top schools most schools have regional reps, and some of those have larger regional reps than others ie state/city vs general part of the country

[gothamm]

no one has asked the question that's on EVERYONE'S mind



will UC Irvine Get a ranking this year

[smittelman6]

I think it would be foolish to completely ignore the ramifications of the US News rankings since a lot of people in the legal field do care about it...but don't let it make one of the biggest decisions of your life.

Most people outside of law students, 0Ls, and law school deans don't read them. Most practicing lawyers don't read them and have to idea what they are. Looking at where people get jobs is actually a better idea. But at the top of the rankings, rankings do a decent job of correlating to job-getting power.

i won't argue that they are clearly more important for students than for lawyers, but to say that "most practicing lawyers... have no idea what they are" is absolutely absurd. of course they know what they are. and don't think for a second that for schools like uc hastings vs. uc davis the rankings won't make a difference... that's ridiculous-- of course one regional school being twenty spots higher than another regional competitor makes a difference.

[Grizz]

I think it would be foolish to completely ignore the ramifications of the US News rankings since a lot of people in the legal field do care about it...but don't let it make one of the biggest decisions of your life.

Most people outside of law students, 0Ls, and law school deans don't read them. Most practicing lawyers don't read them and have to idea what they are. Looking at where people get jobs is actually a better idea. But at the top of the rankings, rankings do a decent job of correlating to job-getting power.

i won't argue that they are clearly more important for students than for lawyers, but to say that "most practicing lawyers... have no idea what they are" is absolutely absurd. of course they know what they are. and don't think for a second that for schools like uc hastings vs. uc davis the rankings won't make a difference... that's ridiculous-- of course one regional school being twenty spots higher than another regional competitor makes a difference.

That doesn't mean that lawyers read the ranking to figure that out, bro. The rankings reflect lawyers' already-existing perceptions, generally.

Ask a non-hiring partner to name the T14. I dare you. And if a given lawyer can name the T14, $5 says it's because those are the schools his biglaw firm recruits from. It just so happens that the rankings for the top 25 or so schools tend to correlate pretty well to prestigious employment. But it's not because of the rankings. Did it occur to you that the rankings might reflect reality, at least somewhat?

[bellamy]

This is clearly true. My father is a lawyer at a ( for this area ) a medium sized firm (50 lawyers) and asked a number of his partners to rank the top ten law schools .Most never even came close. The only consistent pattern in addition to Harvard being first was that the school they went to was ranked higher than USNWR would rank it. Unless you are on the hiring committee a practicing lawyer has only a vague idea and typically doesn't care

[Grizz]

This is clearly true. My father is a lawyer at a ( for this area ) a medium sized firm (50 lawyers) and asked a number of his partners to rank the top ten law schools .Most never even came close. The only consistent pattern in addition to Harvard being first was that the school they went to was ranked higher than USNWR would rank it. Unless you are on the hiring committee a practicing lawyer has only a vague idea and typically doesn't care

Even people hiring don't really know, in my experience. All they know is generally:

UVA > or = Duke > Vandy > UF > or = FSU > Stetson

Then they slot BC/BU/GW/WUSTL kids around in there somewhere.

[smittelman6]

I think it would be foolish to completely ignore the ramifications of the US News rankings since a lot of people in the legal field do care about it...but don't let it make one of the biggest decisions of your life.

Most people outside of law students, 0Ls, and law school deans don't read them. Most practicing lawyers don't read them and have to idea what they are. Looking at where people get jobs is actually a better idea. But at the top of the rankings, rankings do a decent job of correlating to job-getting power.

i won't argue that they are clearly more important for students than for lawyers, but to say that "most practicing lawyers... have no idea what they are" is absolutely absurd. of course they know what they are. and don't think for a second that for schools like uc hastings vs. uc davis the rankings won't make a difference... that's ridiculous-- of course one regional school being twenty spots higher than another regional competitor makes a difference.

That doesn't mean that lawyers read the ranking to figure that out, bro. The rankings reflect lawyers' already-existing perceptions, generally.

Ask a non-hiring partner to name the T14. I dare you. And if a given lawyer can name the T14, $5 says it's because those are the schools his biglaw firm recruits from. It just so happens that the rankings for the top 25 or so schools tend to correlate pretty well to prestigious employment. But it's not because of the rankings. Did it occur to you that the rankings might reflect reality, at least somewhat?

you're proving my point. the rankings are important to me, PERSONALLY (and don't need to be important to you, because honestly i don't care), because they do (generally) reflect already-existing perceptions and/or reality. those things are important--- obviously i want to go to a school that is perceived by other lawyers as being a good school... and if i had to choose, obviously i would pick the one that is perceived as being better than another.

[Grizz]

you're proving my point. the rankings are important to me, PERSONALLY (and don't need to be important to you, because honestly i don't care), because they do (generally) reflect already-existing perceptions and/or reality. those things are important--- obviously i want to go to a school that is perceived by other lawyers as being a good school... and if i had to choose, obviously i would pick the one that is perceived as being better than another.

Did not prove your point. The post we were going off of said "I think it would be foolish to completely ignore the ramifications of the US News rankings since a lot of people in the legal field do care about it...but don't let it make one of the biggest decisions of your life." I already showed how most legal professionals don't care about the rankings. But I never made an opinion as to whether the rankings should be ignored.

[redsoxfan2495]

does anyone read new yorker? malcolm gladwell had an interesting article on US news ranking.

I actually just read that. I liked the story about Penn State Law being ranked as mediocre by a group of lawyers before Penn State had a law school. Your rank is determined by your reputation, which is determined by your rank.

I thought the rankings they made up that included the price of tuition were sort of useless though. It doesn't matter that school X is cheaper than Harvard if going there will mean you earn far less money over the course of your career.

[DallasCowboy]

HYSD!

[DeeCee]

does anyone read new yorker? malcolm gladwell had an interesting article on US news ranking.

I actually just read that. I liked the story about Penn State Law being ranked as mediocre by a group of lawyers before Penn State had a law school. Your rank is determined by your reputation, which is determined by your rank.

I thought the rankings they made up that included the price of tuition were sort of useless though. It doesn't matter that school X is cheaper than Harvard if going there will mean you earn far less money over the course of your career.

Is the article available online?

[beachbum]

HYSD!

... +1

[Pricer]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011 ... t_gladwell

[DeeCee]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011 ... t_gladwell

thanks!

[subgdubb]

Out of fourteen thousand variants, there are approximately six categories with four subcategories from which the statistical geniuses at US NEWS & WORLD REPORT will weight the rankings this year, based, of course, on a standard equitable and highly rational preponderance of the evidence standard. It is:

[Stringer Bell]

does anyone read new yorker? malcolm gladwell had an interesting article on US news ranking.

Bumping an old thread, but I just read Gladwell's article and really liked it. He echoed my thoughts that using how much money a school spends as a positive criteria to rank them by is absurd.

[LAWLAW09]

Link to download Gladwell's article: http://www.ctcl.org/news/order-of-things

[You Gotta Have Faith]

no one has asked the question that's on EVERYONE'S mind



will UC Irvine Get a ranking this year

No.

You have to be ABA approved to be eligible for a ranking. And the process takes three school years, no matter how good your numbers are, if I'm not mistaken.

I could be wrong about this, though. Someone else feel free to chime in.

[neonx]

Source: http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... oming-soon

Best Graduate School Rankings Are Coming Soon

The new graduate school rankings are less than three weeks away.

Our new Best Graduate Schools rankings will be published online on March 15, 2011 on usnews.com. Highlights of the rankings will be published in the Best Graduate Schools 2012 edition newsstand guidebook, on sale April 5, 2011. The most comprehensive version of the upcoming Best Graduate Schools, including all the extended rankings and the most comprehensive data, will be available online only through the all-new U.S. News Graduate School Compass.

What can you expect in mid-March? As in the past, we will have new rankings in the five largest professional graduate school disciplines: business, law, education, engineering, and medicine, as well as the various specialties associated with each of those five broad disciplines.

[ . . .]

[justadude55]

T-14 has been the same since forever, everything else is based on the reputation in the region. UNSWR doesnt change regional reputations

Ironic, because the T14 is arguably east-coast, NYC biased lawl.

Also T14 = national, everything else = regional thing is straight moronic.

IDK if it's biased. I think much of it is because our country was only the east coast for sometime, and that's where all the Ivy's are who have a 100 years more of an alumni base on pretty much everyone else.

With that, Stanford, Chicago, Michigan and Northwestern are all non-North Eastern schools, and when you look at 15-50, the East Coast only has a handful of schools compared with the Midwest and West Coast.

[danquayle]

T-14 has been the same since forever, everything else is based on the reputation in the region. UNSWR doesnt change regional reputations

Ironic, because the T14 is arguably east-coast, NYC biased lawl.

Also T14 = national, everything else = regional thing is straight moronic.

IDK if it's biased. I think much of it is because our country was only the east coast for sometime, and that's where all the Ivy's are who have a 100 years more of an alumni base on pretty much everyone else.

With that, Stanford, Chicago, Michigan and Northwestern are all non-North Eastern schools, and when you look at 15-50, the East Coast only has a handful of schools compared with the Midwest and West Coast.

No, I agree with that. The academically elite universities are very much a result of history. Look at the oldest universities first, and then the most populous metros as of 80-100 years ago. Neither Michigan or Chicago would have grown reputation wise had they not had large populations to draw from. And Stanford/Berkeley had the same advantage, except possibly even more so because it was so remote from the rest of the country as to be the only viable option for many San Fransisco/Northern California students.

It's pretty evident that the list of elite universities comprise those universities that are oldest, and then those universities with the largest population bases as of the 1940s, which is when going to university started becoming more mainstream.

I'm only surprised William and Mary, Rutgers and Case Western aren't stronger. Those are the only universities that really buck the trend.

[Grizz]

T-14 has been the same since forever, everything else is based on the reputation in the region. UNSWR doesnt change regional reputations

Ironic, because the T14 is arguably east-coast, NYC biased lawl.

Also T14 = national, everything else = regional thing is straight moronic.

IDK if it's biased. I think much of it is because our country was only the east coast for sometime, and that's where all the Ivy's are who have a 100 years more of an alumni base on pretty much everyone else.

With that, Stanford, Chicago, Michigan and Northwestern are all non-North Eastern schools, and when you look at 15-50, the East Coast only has a handful of schools compared with the Midwest and West Coast.

Thats the bias.