Why Law School?

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FlanAl
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FlanAl » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:23 am

frijoles99 wrote:Ignoring the nursing/med school discussion. I understand those that may be paralegals would want to continue, but I think that is the minority. Someone acknowledged that a number of people expect that they will place highly in their class. Must we acknowledge some deep rooted illogical optomism?


if you want good PI you are going to have to place just as high in the class as the people you feel have "deep rooted illogical optomism"

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:27 am

FlanAl wrote:
frijoles99 wrote:Ignoring the nursing/med school discussion. I understand those that may be paralegals would want to continue, but I think that is the minority. Someone acknowledged that a number of people expect that they will place highly in their class. Must we acknowledge some deep rooted illogical optomism?


if you want good PI you are going to have to place just as high in the class as the people you feel have "deep rooted illogical optomism"


Credited, unless you want to work in Bumfuck, Anystate.

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Hank Chill
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby Hank Chill » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:27 am

frijoles99 wrote:I recognize the majority of people going into Law School are trying to make that money as evidenced by vast number of attorneys that end up going into private practice. Also it is echoed by the sentiments of the majority of posters here who say big law or bust.
First off anyone who has read any of the articles here or has researched the law school market for the last couple years can tell that statistically your chances are near to nill. Statistically speaking at the majority of these schools you need to be at above the medians or even worse, at the top 10%. Clearly the lsat tests a ton of logic, hence why choose law school over other fields?

I am applying because I want to work in PI. If I did not want to work in this field I would not apply to law school. Look at US news and world reports top 50 careers. Attorney is certainly not up there. My GF is going for a job to make money and she applied to nursing school. Nurses can easily make 6 figures and don't have "big law" cut throat competition, nor the 80% attrition rates. They do not have to work 80 hour weeks. So I really have to ask why?

Thanks


Because I am a buffoon.

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:29 am

FalafelWaffle wrote:
FlanAl wrote:
frijoles99 wrote:Ignoring the nursing/med school discussion. I understand those that may be paralegals would want to continue, but I think that is the minority. Someone acknowledged that a number of people expect that they will place highly in their class. Must we acknowledge some deep rooted illogical optomism?


if you want good PI you are going to have to place just as high in the class as the people you feel have "deep rooted illogical optomism"


Credited, unless you want to work in Bumfuck, Anystate.


OK my own reading comp fail. But maybe there are good jobs in Bumfuck, who am I to be judgmental?

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pleasetryagain
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby pleasetryagain » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:26 am

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:
frijoles99 wrote: Nurses can easily make 6 figures and don't have "big law" cut throat competition, nor the 80% attrition rates. They do not have to work 80 hour weeks.


It may depend on where you live, but this is in general not true.

Credited, especially the bold. My aunt is an RN, and she works 105 hours a week. BTW, she is divorced and pops xanax like candy. Nurses are not immune from the social/familial effects found in biglaw, either.


When people tell me they work 100+ hours a week I facepalm. Do the math. Your aunt doesn't work 105 hours a week. Shes lying; she doesnt work 15 hours/day 7 days/week.

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Leira7905
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby Leira7905 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:45 pm

pleasetryagain wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:
frijoles99 wrote: Nurses can easily make 6 figures and don't have "big law" cut throat competition, nor the 80% attrition rates. They do not have to work 80 hour weeks.


It may depend on where you live, but this is in general not true.

Credited, especially the bold. My aunt is an RN, and she works 105 hours a week. BTW, she is divorced and pops xanax like candy. Nurses are not immune from the social/familial effects found in biglaw, either.


When people tell me they work 100+ hours a week I facepalm. Do the math. Your aunt doesn't work 105 hours a week. Shes lying; she doesnt work 15 hours/day 7 days/week.


+1 It's possible, but highly unlikely.

ATR
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby ATR » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:45 pm

Leira7905 wrote:
pleasetryagain wrote:When people tell me they work 100+ hours a week I facepalm. Do the math. Your aunt doesn't work 105 hours a week. Shes lying; she doesnt work 15 hours/day 7 days/week.


+1 It's possible, but highly unlikely.

Yeah, maybe if you're an ER resident in the 1970s.

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FalafelWaffle
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FalafelWaffle » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:02 pm

ATR wrote:
Leira7905 wrote:
pleasetryagain wrote:When people tell me they work 100+ hours a week I facepalm. Do the math. Your aunt doesn't work 105 hours a week. Shes lying; she doesnt work 15 hours/day 7 days/week.


+1 It's possible, but highly unlikely.

Yeah, maybe if you're an ER resident in the 1970s.


Absent medical residents, the most I will believe without slapping someone is 70 hours. Over that, you better have a good story, you exaggerating ass.

FiveSermon
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:31 pm

FalafelWaffle wrote:
ATR wrote:
Leira7905 wrote:
pleasetryagain wrote:When people tell me they work 100+ hours a week I facepalm. Do the math. Your aunt doesn't work 105 hours a week. Shes lying; she doesnt work 15 hours/day 7 days/week.


+1 It's possible, but highly unlikely.

Yeah, maybe if you're an ER resident in the 1970s.


Absent medical residents, the most I will believe without slapping someone is 70 hours. Over that, you better have a good story, you exaggerating ass.


My parents work 80+ hours a week and no real story.

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pleasetryagain
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby pleasetryagain » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:34 pm

FiveSermon wrote:My parents work 80+ hours a week and no real story.


Combined?

FiveSermon
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:39 pm

pleasetryagain wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:My parents work 80+ hours a week and no real story.


Combined?


Nope.

paralegal2009
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby paralegal2009 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:46 pm

true story, i am a paralegal at a V10 firm and when I started (the very first day, a month after graduating college) i was put on a team going to trial a few months later; i worked 70-100 hour weeks for 7 months--i would say 75-80 was most common during that time (3 months pre-trial, 4 months trial). obvi that included breakfast, lunch and dinner with your coworkers, since you are always there during those meals, but it doesn't include commute time. we do diaries weekly--you know how many hours to the tenth of an hour you work every day. it kinda sucked but you also surprisingly got used to it (and made lots of OT as a paralegal!). the first day i got to go home at 5.30, i kinda freaked for a few weeks and had no idea what i was supposed to do for so long before sleep! but then you get used to that as well :-)

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predent/prelaw
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby predent/prelaw » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:33 pm

I would much rather fail at a million unattainable goals than settling ever. That way I know I really lived.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:46 am

Umm I don't know about the 15hrs a day. But my first time in Iraq we worked 12hrs a day 7 days a week (at least). I didn't get my first day off till almost 6months in. The crazy thing is, that sometimes I would work longer than the 12hrs because what else you gonna do in Tikirit. You would sleep for like 6hrs and the other 6hrs are just downtime so you work instead. So I'm sure I worked at least 90ish hrs a week for 6 straight months and I'm also sure I've come close to hundred if not more during the same time. Just because you never worked a hundo in a week doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

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NiccoloA
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby NiccoloA » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:23 am

I'd like to help people that routinely get screwed by their employers. HR is my undergrad so I'm familiar with how employers think about their employees and how quickly they'll jump to sacrifice the people that work under them regardless of legality.

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby whuts4lunch » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:14 am

I think people tend to focus too much on hours and not enough on the intensity of the work at hand. Working feverishly for 40-50 hours a week can be more draining and difficult than working at a relaxed pace for 60-70.

So that leaves the question: Is working as a lawyer frenzied, stressful, and exhausting in addition to lengthy with respect to hours?

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:14 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:I think people tend to focus too much on hours and not enough on the intensity of the work at hand. Working feverishly for 40-50 hours a week can be more draining and difficult than working at a relaxed pace for 60-70.

So that leaves the question: Is working as a lawyer frenzied, stressful, and exhausting in addition to lengthy with respect to hours?


I think it has to do more with the work and what you're doing and what else you have going on. When I was working 90+ hrs a week in the Army it wasn't as taxing as when I had a civilian management job for a municipality where I worked on average 45-60hrs a week. I'd say this for a couple of reasons. First even though I only worked lets say 50hrs in a given week I had an hour commute there and an 1 1/2hr commute back home. so that already adds another 12hrs to the work week. In Iraq my commute was from my CHU to my job and from my job back to my CHU (about a 4 min walk). Secondly, the civilian job was more taxing because I had other responsibilities people wanted to go to dinner or movies or to sporting events in Iraq you didn't have to worry about any of that stuff. You worked or went to the gym or watched a movie. That was your choices. Third is the level of work you're doing and how exciting it is to you. Going on a convoy down MSR Tampa (known as IED Alley) with a chance to be blown up keeps you involved in your job, or when we put up the first court house in Tikirit since Sadaam fell. It makes you have a since of accomplishment. While at the other job hearing petty disputes about desk space or hearing my bosses terrible, inappropriate jokes and having to feign interest made me want to stick a pencil in my eye. The day seemed so long whereas in a Iraq the days went by so fast they became one big blur you didn't know if it was the weekend or if the week had just started. To me the amount of hours you work at as a lawyer can be very rewarding and fun if you are doing something that is rewarding to you.

FiveSermon
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:07 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:I think people tend to focus too much on hours and not enough on the intensity of the work at hand. Working feverishly for 40-50 hours a week can be more draining and difficult than working at a relaxed pace for 60-70.

So that leaves the question: Is working as a lawyer frenzied, stressful, and exhausting in addition to lengthy with respect to hours?


Doing pretty much anything 70+ hours a week will drain you. Unless you have a really sweet job.

frijoles99
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby frijoles99 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:48 pm

Ok so given, you can work 100+ hours a week in a warzone.

Secondly, from what I understand when you are working those 70-80 hour weeks at Kirkland Ellis or equivalent you aren't exactly chilling. It's intense tough stuff. And thank you to the paralegal who put it in perspective, that maybe you can get so engrossed into it that you don't recognize the time commitment.

However, I want to have somewhat of a work-life balance and don't want to spend 13 hours a day at work every single day for 5+ years. The purpose of this was to ask. Do you think this is worth it or do you have a specific reason why this is ok or what path are you taking to avoid this sort of situation. Do you think you'll get top 30% at law school land the Big Law Job and be super happy working 70-80 hours a week for 5+ years getting paid 200k?

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby whuts4lunch » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:27 am

frijoles99 wrote:Ok so given, you can work 100+ hours a week in a warzone.

Secondly, from what I understand when you are working those 70-80 hour weeks at Kirkland Ellis or equivalent you aren't exactly chilling. It's intense tough stuff. And thank you to the paralegal who put it in perspective, that maybe you can get so engrossed into it that you don't recognize the time commitment.

However, I want to have somewhat of a work-life balance and don't want to spend 13 hours a day at work every single day for 5+ years. The purpose of this was to ask. Do you think this is worth it or do you have a specific reason why this is ok or what path are you taking to avoid this sort of situation. Do you think you'll get top 30% at law school land the Big Law Job and be super happy working 70-80 hours a week for 5+ years getting paid 200k?


A lot of people see biglaw as a means to an end, not an end in itself. Few people are attracted to the hours and the work. People like how the pay is consistent and steadily increases each year and the exit opportunities BigLaw affords.

Personally, I doubt I'll take part in the BigLaw ratrace and will probably use my legal education to increase my earning potential in my existing profession. I'm also fairly confident that skills and knowledge I will gain in law school, as well as the powers I'll have as a licensed attorney, will be valuable throughout my career, no matter what direction it ultimately takes.

frijoles99
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby frijoles99 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:55 pm

Interesting view, does this affect your decisions in which law school to attend? For example choosing which one will give you the best financial aid?

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby whuts4lunch » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:48 pm

I suppose it could have, but the best school I was admitted to also gave me the best financial award. So that's the school I chose.

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Band A Long
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Re: Why Law School?

Postby Band A Long » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:56 pm

OP, I feel the same way about the prospects of law school. I'm only interested in a select subset of law: actually debating in the courtroom and doing PI / prosecution / etc. This cuts down on potential earnings, but honestly the job itself seems exciting. Yes, there's probably paperwork out the ass, but like somebody else said, you've gotta go for it if you know that it's a challenge you can take...




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