Please rank Florida Law Schools for me. Forum

[FeelTheHeat]

You don't want to say what schools you've been accepted or rejected from, but are asking for a general ranking of every school in Florida. UF and FSU are a long way from St. Thomas and Barry. What schools do you have to choose from, where do you want to practice, is debt an issue, what are your career aspirations. All those questions are more valuable then a list. I, as I'm sure everyone else, would like to help you, but you see why just throwing out a blanket statement to just rank Florida's schools would start arguments, right? You want a list, US News has a great one.

[TOMaHULK]

You don't want to say what schools you've been accepted or rejected from, but are asking for a general ranking of every school in Florida. UF and FSU are a long way from St. Thomas and Barry. What schools do you have to choose from, where do you want to practice, is debt an issue, what are your career aspirations. All those questions are more valuable then a list. I, as I'm sure everyone else, would like to help you, but you see why just throwing out a blanket statement to just rank Florida's schools would start arguments, right? You want a list, US News has a great one.

That's fair. But I think it's also fair that I say I'd like to remain private on those issues. Sorry, I see your concerns, however.

[FeelTheHeat]

Fair enough.

[drummerboy]

question: other than US news and world report is there any other source that compares miami to stetson? Other than location and desire to practice at said location and cost why is one better than the other? I guess im wondering if job prospects of one clearly trump the other. Any thoughts?

[Aberzombie1892]

Look at the 2005 NLJ placement chart. It's all over tls.com so you should be able to find it. Does Miami place a huge portion of its class into the NLJ 250? No. But it places about twice as many as FSU, five times as many as Stetson (I'm not sure about the Stetson part, but it's close), and slightly (and I do mean slightly) less than UF. This indicates that employers generally consider UF and UM to be of a similar quality and that both are at least a step above FSU and any other Florida school.

[rman1201]

Look at the 2005 NLJ placement chart. It's all over tls.com so you should be able to find it. Does Miami place a huge portion of its class into the NLJ 250? No. But it places about twice as many as FSU, five times as many as Stetson (I'm not sure about the Stetson part, but it's close), and slightly (and I do mean slightly) less than UF. This indicates that employers generally consider UF and UM to be of a similar quality and that both are at least a step above FSU and any other Florida school.

Are you referring to the 2008 chart?
The only reason FSU is lower on NLJ 250 placement is because they place significantly more into Government (as expected due to the location), even more than UF. But this chart is also pre-ITE, which is very relevant when looking at Florida schools since we were among the hardest hit by the recession.

[SrLaw]

1. UF
2. Florida State
3. Miami (FL)
4. Ave Maria
5. Stetson
6. St. Thomas
7. Florida A&M
8. Florida Coastal
9. Barry
10. Nova Southeastern
11. Florida International

I think UF and FSU are above the rest. Miami is only worth it if you can get serious scholarship money. Stetson is better than Ave Maria. My ranking was off based there. However, I find Ave Maria's unique school setting to be something that substantiates it from the rest of the schools behind UF,FSU,Miami, Stetson.

[drummerboy]

ok.thanks but independent of costs and uf/fsu, ITE does it matter if you attend miami over stetson if your are willing to live anywhere in florida? Reason for tenacity of question is that ive had mixed responses with no general consensus for the 2011 entering class.

[SrLaw]

Miami and Stetson, go to the one that offers you the largest amount of money.

[drummerboy]

sounds reasonable but do you think that in the long run miami and its relationship to a larger s. fl market would be a better choice?

[SrLaw]

sounds reasonable but do you think that in the long run miami and its relationship to a larger s. fl market would be a better choice?

I would choose Miami over Stetson.

[drummerboy]

thanks. i just started a new thread. stetson vs miami. lets see where it takes us.

[alexonfyre]

mostly dysfunctional law schools that privately owned by fast food moguls with weird religious convictions that devalue the education and should be avoided no matter what
10. Ave Maria

Damn, tell us how you really feel. LOL

But you would miss out on being taught by this guy:

--ImageRemoved--

Fittingly a professor visiting from Temple Law....he packed his shades for sunny Florida.

From the Ave Maria wiki page:

In 2003, the graduating class passed the Michigan bar examination at a rate of 93% among first-time takers, which was the top rate in Michigan. In 2004, the school had 100% Michigan bar passage rate, and in 2006, the passing rate was 96%, which is the highest overall among Michigan law schools.

Why wouldn't you want to go to the Florida school which ranks itself best among schools in Michigan?

[northwood]

UF
FSU ( however if you want government- then switch these two spots)
Miami/Stetson ( depending on if you want Miami Dade or Tampa- and sholarship offers
FIU( if you get a great scholarship offer and like miami- and it costs less than UM)
the rest are considerded retake, re apply and reassess ( 3R)

[TOMaHULK]

Everyone around TLS keeps saying that if you go to University of Miami (or other Private schools) at sticker, prepare to pay full sticker price and have loans of $100k. I have a friend that recently graduate from Miami (middle of the class). He got a job at 45k right out of graduation, but it lasted about 1-2 months. The jobs position was set up like this:

First the first 3 Months: 45K pay
3-6 Months: 55K
6+ Months: 65K

Before the 3 month mark they let him go. Obviously a pay base structure like the above is set up for a reason. What's that reason? High turn over and working in HR I can safely say that the above resembles a call center or sales position.

He actually graduated with $191k in loans. I think the thinking of $100K needs to pretty much be rounded up to $200k. Realistically, if you go to Miami at sticker, with no other forms of financial aid, other than loans, and must support your cost of living...you're looking at significantly more than 100K.

Figured I'd try to contribute to my thread, rather than merely asking others to for once.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

From the Ave Maria wiki page:

In 2003, the graduating class passed the Michigan bar examination at a rate of 93% among first-time takers, which was the top rate in Michigan. In 2004, the school had 100% Michigan bar passage rate, and in 2006, the passing rate was 96%, which is the highest overall among Michigan law schools.

Why wouldn't you want to go to the Florida school which ranks itself best among schools in Michigan?

Ah, yes, why wouldn't you want to go to the only school in the nation with this kind of reputation backing it?

http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblaw ... ion-a.html
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/jun ... -financia/
(see the 4th post on this page) http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=448984

[Justathought]

Everyone around TLS keeps saying that if you go to University of Miami (or other Private schools) at sticker, prepare to pay full sticker price and have loans of $100k. I have a friend that recently graduate from Miami (middle of the class). He got a job at 45k right out of graduation, but it lasted about 1-2 months. The jobs position was set up like this:

First the first 3 Months: 45K pay
3-6 Months: 55K
6+ Months: 65K

Before the 3 month mark they let him go. Obviously a pay base structure like the above is set up for a reason. What's that reason? High turn over and working in HR I can safely say that the above resembles a call center or sales position.

He actually graduated with $191k in loans. I think the thinking of $100K needs to pretty much be rounded up to $200k. Realistically, if you go to Miami at sticker, with no other forms of financial aid, other than loans, and must support your cost of living...you're looking at significantly more than 100K.

Figured I'd try to contribute to my thread, rather than merely asking others to for once.

I'm a little confused by this post; perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining. Are you saying your friend at median from Miami made $45,000 in 3 months, right out of school? That's pretty damn good for median! Or, are you saying that he got salary increases every 3 months, gradually bringing him up to what would amount to $65,000 annually, if paid over the course of a full year?

Also, was this a legal job? I'm just curious; I too have experience managing Human Resources, and would probably have some thoughts regarding this, depending on your response.

[Aberzombie1892]

Look at the 2005 NLJ placement chart. It's all over tls.com so you should be able to find it. Does Miami place a huge portion of its class into the NLJ 250? No. But it places about twice as many as FSU, five times as many as Stetson (I'm not sure about the Stetson part, but it's close), and slightly (and I do mean slightly) less than UF. This indicates that employers generally consider UF and UM to be of a similar quality and that both are at least a step above FSU and any other Florida school.

Are you referring to the 2008 chart?
The only reason FSU is lower on NLJ 250 placement is because they place significantly more into Government (as expected due to the location), even more than UF. But this chart is also pre-ITE, which is very relevant when looking at Florida schools since we were among the hardest hit by the recession.

The fact that FSU places more in government should not affect the fact that it places half as many of its graduates into the NLJ. I understand that the information was pre recession, but it the information shows that UF and UM were moreso peers and UF or UM and FSU.

Also, 99% of people would choose UM over Stetson if they were physically forced to pick only between those two.

[TOMaHULK]

He got a job after graduation and was let go 2 months in. Had he stayed, the increase in his salary would have been per the increase schedule listed. So he made 45K per year, for 2 months. He was looking forward to the 10k bump the following month, but with a increase schedule as was mentioned, it's obviously structured for high turn over. He moved home with folks and they gave him a job making double. Probably didn't have to go to LS at all, but with 191k in debt, I hope his private practice he's trying to get going takes off for him. Cause he has debt issues now.

Everyone around TLS keeps saying that if you go to University of Miami (or other Private schools) at sticker, prepare to pay full sticker price and have loans of $100k. I have a friend that recently graduate from Miami (middle of the class). He got a job at 45k right out of graduation, but it lasted about 1-2 months. The jobs position was set up like this:

First the first 3 Months: 45K pay
3-6 Months: 55K
6+ Months: 65K

Before the 3 month mark they let him go. Obviously a pay base structure like the above is set up for a reason. What's that reason? High turn over and working in HR I can safely say that the above resembles a call center or sales position.

He actually graduated with $191k in loans. I think the thinking of $100K needs to pretty much be rounded up to $200k. Realistically, if you go to Miami at sticker, with no other forms of financial aid, other than loans, and must support your cost of living...you're looking at significantly more than 100K.

Figured I'd try to contribute to my thread, rather than merely asking others to for once.

I'm a little confused by this post; perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining. Are you saying your friend at median from Miami made $45,000 in 3 months, right out of school? That's pretty damn good for median! Or, are you saying that he got salary increases every 3 months, gradually bringing him up to what would amount to $65,000 annually, if paid over the course of a full year?

Also, was this a legal job? I'm just curious; I too have experience managing Human Resources, and would probably have some thoughts regarding this, depending on your response.

[Justathought]

He got a job after graduation and was let go 2 months in. Had he stayed, the increase in his salary would have been per the increase schedule listed. So he made 45K per year, for 2 months. He was looking forward to the 10k bump the following month, but with a increase schedule as was mentioned, it's obviously structured for high turn over. He moved home with folks and they gave him a job making double. Probably didn't have to go to LS at all, but with 191k in debt, I hope his private practice he's trying to get going takes off for him. Cause he has debt issues now.

Yeah, that's a shame. I assume, if this job was legal work, it was some form of Doc review or similar contract style work which required very little training or ability to follow through on projects. Otherwise there would be no reason to go about training a new employee every 3 months, just to save on moderate salary increases throughout the course of a year.

If this is the case, and assuming your friend is a personable human being, it sucks that median at Miami is doing doc review. Of course, I guess given the economy that's to be expected, and this still is very anecdotal in nature. Perhaps some/half/most of his classmates with a similar rank are doing better. I would be curious to know.

[TOMaHULK]

He got a job after graduation and was let go 2 months in. Had he stayed, the increase in his salary would have been per the increase schedule listed. So he made 45K per year, for 2 months. He was looking forward to the 10k bump the following month, but with a increase schedule as was mentioned, it's obviously structured for high turn over. He moved home with folks and they gave him a job making double. Probably didn't have to go to LS at all, but with 191k in debt, I hope his private practice he's trying to get going takes off for him. Cause he has debt issues now.

Yeah, that's a shame. I assume, if this job was legal work, it was some form of Doc review or similar contract style work which required very little training or ability to follow through on projects. Otherwise there would be no reason to go about training a new employee every 3 months, just to save on moderate salary increases throughout the course of a year.

If this is the case, and assuming your friend is a personable human being, it sucks that median at Miami is doing doc review. Of course, I guess given the economy that's to be expected, and this still is very anecdotal in nature. Perhaps some/half/most of his classmates with a similar rank are doing better. I would be curious to know.

He was doing work with with insurance claims for hurricane Katrina victims, other hurricanes etc.

[CP2323]

Also, 99% of people would choose UM over Stetson if they were physically forced to pick only between those two.

I doubt that. Miami is too expensive of a place to live. Expect almost the same as your yearly tuition in living costs.

[drummerboy]

my poll so far not a great sampling but too early to tell is 66% Miami 33% stetson. question: is the decision always related to monetary concerns? How about simply reputation of one over the other. ranking via usnwr seems to dictate that miami is better. How much credence should I give to this? Job stats always seem outdated or trumped by ITE issues

[FeelTheHeat]

Are you shouldering the entirety of the debt burden at both schools?

[TOMaHULK]

my poll so far not a great sampling but too early to tell is 66% Miami 33% stetson. question: is the decision always related to monetary concerns? How about simply reputation of one over the other. ranking via usnwr seems to dictate that miami is better. How much credence should I give to this? Job stats always seem outdated or trumped by ITE issues

From what I've read on this site as a whole, as well as in this thread, it's generally region specific. They suggest that if you want to practice in Miami/south FL, pick Miami. If the Tampa Bay region interest you, choose Stetson. However, there's also been talk of Miami's reputation possibly having pull in other areas as well. So if you don't know which area you want to work in, in FL, then they'd suggest you take the $. If no $, then take Miami. At least from what I've read.