M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

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mdpello
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M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby mdpello » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:20 am

Im a physician (MD), Board Certified Psychiatrist, 3.89 GPA under grad 1989 and UW med school grad 1994. I just took the LSAT today! First time. Im taking a year off after my dad's death and have been thinking about reinventing myself and pursuing a new career in health care law. I have no idea how I did on the LSAT, probably not great since my preptests were coming in mid-150'ish. I am not sure if having a MD degree will help me or not when applying.....is it really just the numbers that will matter? I wonder if could even hurt my application since when I tell others I want to go to law school, the majority look at me as if I'm nuts and take a step back because I'm a physician and I should be content doing this........but I see law school as an exciting, interesting and desirable change. Thanks all, great forum.....M

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NoleinNY
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:25 am

It is mostly a numbers game, unfortunately.

How hard have you been studying for the LSAT? If you can get in the high 160s/low 170s that could help you, especially at a school like Northwestern. A 159 LSAT + 3.89 gpa is not going to get you much, MD or not.

Study harder/smarter (there are a lot of very helpful guides on these forums) and retake it. Clearly, having gone through the rigors of MCATs + Med school, etc, you can handle that.

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typ3
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby typ3 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:28 am

NoleinNY wrote:How hard have you been studying for the LSAT? If you can get in the high 160s/low 170s that could help you, especially at a school like Northwestern. A 159 LSAT + 3.89 gpa is not going to get you much, MD or not.


+1 mostly a numbers game. get a 165 and you'll get into northwestern imo.. they love non-trad apps like yours

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mdpello
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby mdpello » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:38 am

typ3 wrote:
NoleinNY wrote:How hard have you been studying for the LSAT? If you can get in the high 160s/low 170s that could help you, especially at a school like Northwestern. A 159 LSAT + 3.89 gpa is not going to get you much, MD or not.


+1 mostly a numbers game. get a 165 and you'll get into northwestern imo.. they love non-trad apps like yours


I put in about 60 hours....read through Kaplan Premier, plus some practice prep-tests.......not as vigorous as most of you....damn those logic games! Thank you for the quick replies....

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby BlakcMajikc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:43 am

mdpello wrote:
typ3 wrote:
NoleinNY wrote:How hard have you been studying for the LSAT? If you can get in the high 160s/low 170s that could help you, especially at a school like Northwestern. A 159 LSAT + 3.89 gpa is not going to get you much, MD or not.


+1 mostly a numbers game. get a 165 and you'll get into northwestern imo.. they love non-trad apps like yours


I put in about 60 hours....read through Kaplan Premier, some practice test.......not as vigorous as most of you....damn those logic games! thanks for the quick replies....


yeah... double or triple those hrs edit: at a minimum and retake.

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mdpello
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby mdpello » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:49 am

BlakcMajikc wrote:
mdpello wrote:
typ3 wrote:
NoleinNY wrote:How hard have you been studying for the LSAT? If you can get in the high 160s/low 170s that could help you, especially at a school like Northwestern. A 159 LSAT + 3.89 gpa is not going to get you much, MD or not.


+1 mostly a numbers game. get a 165 and you'll get into northwestern imo.. they love non-trad apps like yours


I put in about 60 hours....read through Kaplan Premier, some practice test.......not as vigorous as most of you....damn those logic games! thanks for the quick replies....


yeah... double or triple those hrs and retake.


So I won't be able to pursue a decent career in law, unless I retake, if I get a score under 160?

.....Im not looking to boost my resume with a top tier school but I do want a decent education and an ability to achieve a satisfying career at some point......thanks

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dr123
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby dr123 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:51 am

If UW means University of Washington, you could definitely go to SeattleU with a 155ish, you could even go PT if you wanted to continue working. Not sure if doctor by day law school student by night is very practical though. Hell if you're at or above to 160 you'd have a good shot at Udub

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NoleinNY
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:54 am

mdpello wrote:
So I won't be able to pursue a decent career in law, unless I retake, if I get a score under 160?

.....Im not looking to boost my resume with a top tier school but I do want a decent education and an ability to achieve a satisfying career at some point......thanks


Even if you just want to go somewhere local, a sub-160 won't get you much help. Even if you have a sizeable amount of money from practicing medicine and are willing to pay sticker (which is a lot, normally), going to a reputable local school requires good numbers. What is the region you plan on practicing in?

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mdpello
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby mdpello » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:56 am

dr123 wrote:If UW means University of Washington, you could definitely go to SeattleU with a 155ish, you could even go PT if you wanted to continue working. Not sure if doctor by day law school student by night is very practical though. Hell if you're at or above to 160 you'd have a good shot at Udub


Yeah!...encouraging news.......yes...Univ. of Washington School of Med (but Washington State University undergrad)......bitter rivals

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby BlakcMajikc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:59 am

mdpello wrote:So I won't be able to pursue a decent career in law, unless I retake, if I get a score under 160?

.....Im not looking to boost my resume with a top tier school but I do want a decent education and an ability to achieve a satisfying career at some point......thanks


its an it depends.... what exactly would "satisfying" be. you could get solid scholarship $$s at a group of schools with a 160+, 3.98, MD.

Give the TLS world a bit more information:

What region of the country do you want to practice law? (in Washington I am assuming)
You are older, so do you want any debt?
Are you looking to use the JD for a MD/JD combo within the medical field?
Do you mind relocating for law school?
Do you mind going PT?

if you haven't already, do a little research on medians for any schools you are interested in. You will be above the GPA median for every school, so check out the LSAT median. Then use [url]lawschoolnumbers.com[/url] and assume you have the best softs of any candidate (which isn't quite true, but if you put your app together, you can get close)

If I were you, I would also raise your score just so you can go to law school for free bc it is only the lsat that you lack. But definitely my personal opinion.

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NoleinNY
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:00 am

mdpello wrote:
dr123 wrote:If UW means University of Washington, you could definitely go to SeattleU with a 155ish, you could even go PT if you wanted to continue working. Not sure if doctor by day law school student by night is very practical though. Hell if you're at or above to 160 you'd have a good shot at Udub


Yeah!...encouraging news.......yes...Univ. of Washington School of Med (but Washington State University undergrad)......bitter rivals


You could go to UW for a 1/3 less with a 165, and you would get better career prospects.

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dr123
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby dr123 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:06 am

mdpello wrote:
dr123 wrote:If UW means University of Washington, you could definitely go to SeattleU with a 155ish, you could even go PT if you wanted to continue working. Not sure if doctor by day law school student by night is very practical though. Hell if you're at or above to 160 you'd have a good shot at Udub


Yeah!...encouraging news.......yes...Univ. of Washington School of Med (but Washington State University undergrad)......bitter rivals


If you're interesting in going back to the other side of the mountains you could apply to Gonzaga, where you'd probably definitely get in

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mdpello
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby mdpello » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:14 am

BlakcMajikc wrote:
mdpello wrote:So I won't be able to pursue a decent career in law, unless I retake, if I get a score under 160?

.....Im not looking to boost my resume with a top tier school but I do want a decent education and an ability to achieve a satisfying career at some point......thanks


its an it depends.... what exactly would "satisfying" be. you could get solid scholarship $$s at a group of schools with a 160+, 3.98, MD.

Give the TLS world a bit more information:

What region of the country do you want to practice law? (in Washington I am assuming)
You are older, so do you want any debt?
Are you looking to use the JD for a MD/JD combo within the medical field?
Do you mind relocating for law school?
Do you mind going PT?

if you haven't already, do a little research on medians for any schools you are interested in. You will be above the GPA median for every school, so check out the LSAT median. Then use [url]lawschoolnumbers.com[/url] and assume you have the best softs of any candidate (which isn't quite true, but if you put your app together, you can get close)

If I were you, I would also raise your score just so you can go to law school for free bc it is only the lsat that you lack. But definitely my personal opinion.


-Live Hawaii but open to relocating to mainland for school.....no real preference...likely west coast but open.
-YES old: 46 this year. No more debt for me, just got out of it. I'll pay as I go..but under <90k
-Looking to practice law while using my knowledge of health care in the legal arena, I am not interested in forensic medicine. I would like to put clinical medicine and health care administration to rest for a while if not forever.
Like to go full time but open for options.

FiveSermon
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:06 am

You just got out of med school debt and want to start accumulating law school debt?! I hope you have some real passion for law, otherwise it's not worth it (financially at least with that LSAT score).

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby BlakcMajikc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:23 am

FiveSermon wrote:You just got out of med school debt and want to start accumulating law school debt?! I hope you have some real passion for law, otherwise it's not worth it (financially at least with that LSAT score).


RC fail. good job buddy.

mdpello wrote:
Like to go full time but open for options.



I have to head out, but when I get back home I'll give you my opinion without being rushed. Hopefully another TLSer will pick up this thread considering it isn't 3am on a Saturday night anymore... lol

javancho
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby javancho » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:20 am

mdpello wrote:Im a physician (MD), Board Certified Psychiatrist, 3.89 GPA under grad 1989 and UW med school grad 1994. I just took the LSAT today! First time. Im taking a year off after my dad's death and have been thinking about reinventing myself and pursuing a new career in health care law. I have no idea how I did on the LSAT, probably not great since my preptests were coming in mid-150'ish. I am not sure if having a MD degree will help me or not when applying.....is it really just the numbers that will matter? I wonder if could even hurt my application since when I tell others I want to go to law school, the majority look at me as if I'm nuts and take a step back because I'm a physician and I should be content doing this........but I see law school as an exciting, interesting and desirable change. Thanks all, great forum.....M

I agree with what all these guys have said. You shouldn't waste your wonderful credentials with a mediocre 150s LSAT accepting school. In the legal world, it matter A LOT where you go to law school. And yes, your credentials can help you, but only in your LSAT range.
If you scored in the 150s, then RETAKE. You can take the test two more times. Actually, if you think you did not crack 160 this time, you should cancel your score, if possible.
You should prepare for a long time (several months), if necessary. The LSAT, unlike the MCAT, is not about knowledge, it's about technique, sort of like a sport. It takes time to master the LSAT, and it takes time to master a sport. It also takes everyday practice to master the LSAT, just like a sport. And you know when you are ready for the LSAT when your brain responds to it almost by reflex, just like a sport. With enough practice and time, your brain can LSAT-rewire and you can do much better.

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er doctor
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby er doctor » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:45 am

mdpello wrote:Im a physician (MD), Board Certified Psychiatrist, 3.89 GPA under grad 1989 and UW med school grad 1994. I just took the LSAT today! First time. Im taking a year off after my dad's death and have been thinking about reinventing myself and pursuing a new career in health care law. I have no idea how I did on the LSAT, probably not great since my preptests were coming in mid-150'ish. I am not sure if having a MD degree will help me or not when applying.....is it really just the numbers that will matter? I wonder if could even hurt my application since when I tell others I want to go to law school, the majority look at me as if I'm nuts and take a step back because I'm a physician and I should be content doing this........but I see law school as an exciting, interesting and desirable change. Thanks all, great forum.....M


Very similar circumstance here...graduated med school in 1997 spent the intervening time as an ER doc. I have been accepted at almost every law school I applied to and have received one offer of a full scholarship. (I did do very well on the LSAT and I believe that is imperative to catching the law schools' attentions.)

There are not many of us (MD to JD) out there and schools certainly seem to be interested. However, it really seems like you need the numbers to get your foot in the door.

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Grizz
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby Grizz » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:51 am

I wouldn't enter matriculate now. Economy is bad and you actually have a job.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby BlakcMajikc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:15 pm

mdpello wrote:
BlakcMajikc wrote:
mdpello wrote:So I won't be able to pursue a decent career in law, unless I retake, if I get a score under 160?

.....Im not looking to boost my resume with a top tier school but I do want a decent education and an ability to achieve a satisfying career at some point......thanks


its an it depends.... what exactly would "satisfying" be. you could get solid scholarship $$s at a group of schools with a 160+, 3.98, MD.

Give the TLS world a bit more information:

What region of the country do you want to practice law? (in Washington I am assuming)
You are older, so do you want any debt?
Are you looking to use the JD for a MD/JD combo within the medical field?
Do you mind relocating for law school?
Do you mind going PT?

if you haven't already, do a little research on medians for any schools you are interested in. You will be above the GPA median for every school, so check out the LSAT median. Then use [url]lawschoolnumbers.com[/url] and assume you have the best softs of any candidate (which isn't quite true, but if you put your app together, you can get close)

If I were you, I would also raise your score just so you can go to law school for free bc it is only the lsat that you lack. But definitely my personal opinion.


-Live Hawaii but open to relocating to mainland for school.....no real preference...likely west coast but open.
-YES old: 46 this year. No more debt for me, just got out of it. I'll pay as I go..but under <90k
-Looking to practice law while using my knowledge of health care in the legal arena, I am not interested in forensic medicine. I would like to put clinical medicine and health care administration to rest for a while if not forever.
Like to go full time but open for options.


So midlife semi-crisis ;)

You should go somewhere that you want on a full ride. Like the previous poster said, the LSAT is a skill that you need to hone. Get a 160+ and go somewhere for free.

Start studying now, take the June LSAT and apply first thing in the fall. Focus on honing your story with what exactly you want to do with your JD. Try to mitigate taking out any loans for COL.

Score high enough, always aiming for the 75th LSAT at your dream school, and you could stay in-state and go to U of Hawaii (75th 161) with cheap in-state tuition (they don't offer a lot of schollys)...

It is so dependent on that LSAT, that its tough to give you a range of schools but West Coast only wouldn't be a problem.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby BlakcMajikc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:19 pm

just to be sure we are clear on this
OP, Where do you want to practice?

And for more advice from the age 30+ crowd check out this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=143047&start=725

seriously????
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby seriously???? » Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:07 pm

since you want to work in a medical related field, you do not need to go to a t14 school. I am assuming you do not want big law, so with pretty much any degree along with your MD, your expertise will be an asset. If you can't get a full ride now, retake, get in the low to mid sixties, get a full ride (if even a TTTT). Or you can go part time, and pay as you go.
Have you ever thought of the idea, of just coasting on working two days a week as a doctor (which is probably more money than 90% fresh law graduates make full time), and do probono cases as well?

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androstan
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby androstan » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:58 pm

Is there really a significant market for people specifically with a MD/JD?

09042014
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby 09042014 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:15 pm

You are over 40 years old. I doubt it makes financial sense to waste 200K in retirement money to get a job as a lawyer.

You are just running away from your old career, a new one won't be better. The legal market sucks. If you went I bet you'd be back as a doctor after 4 years anyway.

FiveSermon
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:27 pm

BlakcMajikc wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:You just got out of med school debt and want to start accumulating law school debt?! I hope you have some real passion for law, otherwise it's not worth it (financially at least with that LSAT score).


RC fail. good job buddy.

mdpello wrote:
Like to go full time but open for options.



I have to head out, but when I get back home I'll give you my opinion without being rushed. Hopefully another TLSer will pick up this thread considering it isn't 3am on a Saturday night anymore... lol


Where is the RC fail? Maybe you could point it out instead of acting like a smartass.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: M.D. Will this soft help, hurt, not really matter

Postby BlakcMajikc » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:33 pm

mdpello wrote:-YES old: 46 this year. No more debt for me, just got out of it. I'll pay as I go..but under <90k



Sorry to sound like an ass. I had him answer questions including that one about debt.

He doesn't want any debt and can pay as he goes under ~90k
So our suggestions should include ideas like PT, instate, or a way to get $$s


FiveSermon wrote:
BlakcMajikc wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:You just got out of med school debt and want to start accumulating law school debt?! I hope you have some real passion for law, otherwise it's not worth it (financially at least with that LSAT score).


RC fail. good job buddy.

mdpello wrote:
Like to go full time but open for options.



I have to head out, but when I get back home I'll give you my opinion without being rushed. Hopefully another TLSer will pick up this thread considering it isn't 3am on a Saturday night anymore... lol


Where is the RC fail? Maybe you could point it out instead of acting like a smartass.




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