This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

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MTal
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby MTal » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:22 am

BeachandRun23 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
MTal wrote:
BeachandRun23 wrote:Plus this title is misleading. "Awaits many of you?" Most of TLS is going to T14 schools and I'd say another large portion is going to top 30 schools. There is a huge difference between top 30 schools or T14 schools (possibly with lots of $$) and people who go to TTTT schools at sticker in enormously oversaturated markets.


Bottom half of all but the T3 are effectively shut out of biglaw. That is the only job (apart from IBR doing PI, which is even MORE competitive than biglaw) which will allow grads to make a dent in their loans. The alternatives are shitlaw (pays 35-60k for 60 hour weeks) or getting out of the legal profession entirely.


TBF, 60k for 60 hour weeks would be pretty good with no loans or the tax catastrophe at the end of IBR.


x2. 60k is a good salary, especially if you dont have any loans or only have a small number. I think you just have to smart with where you go (dont go to a T30 at sticker..etc). Some people seem to feel like making 160k is owed to them and any less than that and this is some kind of scam.

Plenty of people go to college and pay 50k? 100k? 150k? for four years of education. They graduate making 30-40k a year (if they can find a job) and you dont see everyone advising you to avoid going to college.

Be smart, dont go to a TTT/TTTT unless its damn well close to free or you have connections and this problem wouldve been solved a long time ago.


ITE, you will be extremely LUCKY to get 60k. Many T14 grads are working in shitlaw, hustling for PI cases making 35-40k with no benefits, or doing doc review in the crowded basements of big firms.

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fatduck
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby fatduck » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:24 am

no money ITE, everyone's solid

too old for this sh*
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby too old for this sh* » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:27 am

the myths some (mtal/veyron) continue to perpetuate are laughable.

It is QUITE possible to find positions paying enough to be comfortable even with a JD from a TTT/TTTT. Hell, I was well over the $60K figure claimed ITT before bonuses with less than 50 hours a week as an effing paralegal (and was over $50K starting). A recent associate hired into the firm I work with now came from a TTTT and LOVES his six figure salary plus the fact that none of us work much over 40-50 hours in a week.

There IS life beyond BigLaw (and certainly outside of T14). Not every position is based on pedigree...many opportunities are more about the SKILLS and the PERSON, not the school on the parchskin.

r6_philly
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby r6_philly » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:36 am

too old for this sh* wrote:the myths some (mtal/veyron) continue to perpetuate are laughable.

It is QUITE possible to find positions paying enough to be comfortable even with a JD from a TTT/TTTT. Hell, I was well over the $60K figure claimed ITT before bonuses with less than 50 hours a week as an effing paralegal (and was over $50K starting). A recent associate hired into the firm I work with now came from a TTTT and LOVES his six figure salary plus the fact that none of us work much over 40-50 hours in a week.

There IS life beyond BigLaw (and certainly outside of T14). Not every position is based on pedigree...many opportunities are more about the SKILLS and the PERSON, not the school on the parchskin.



Did you graduate with 200k in loans? If you did, would you be ok making 60k starting?

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JazzOne
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby JazzOne » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:44 am

BeachandRun23 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
MTal wrote:
BeachandRun23 wrote:Plus this title is misleading. "Awaits many of you?" Most of TLS is going to T14 schools and I'd say another large portion is going to top 30 schools. There is a huge difference between top 30 schools or T14 schools (possibly with lots of $$) and people who go to TTTT schools at sticker in enormously oversaturated markets.


Bottom half of all but the T3 are effectively shut out of biglaw. That is the only job (apart from IBR doing PI, which is even MORE competitive than biglaw) which will allow grads to make a dent in their loans. The alternatives are shitlaw (pays 35-60k for 60 hour weeks) or getting out of the legal profession entirely.


TBF, 60k for 60 hour weeks would be pretty good with no loans or the tax catastrophe at the end of IBR.


x2. 60k is a good salary, especially if you dont have any loans or only have a small number. I think you just have to smart with where you go (dont go to a T30 at sticker..etc). Some people seem to feel like making 160k is owed to them and any less than that and this is some kind of scam.

Plenty of people go to college and pay 50k? 100k? 150k? for four years of education. They graduate making 30-40k a year (if they can find a job) and you dont see everyone advising you to avoid going to college.

Be smart, dont go to a TTT/TTTT unless its damn well close to free or you have connections and this problem wouldve been solved a long time ago.

A lot of people are starting to realize that $100K for college is just as stupid as $100K for a TTT law school. The law school crowd is more vociferous, but the availability of massive UG loans is also a huge problem.
Last edited by JazzOne on Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FlanAl
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby FlanAl » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:46 am

you should really wait a few days until the new nlj stats come out. then all your doom and gloom might have some substance.

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MTal
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby MTal » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:46 am

JazzOne wrote:A lot of people are starting to realize that $100K for college is just as stupid as $100K for a TTT law school.


Especially when your degree is in...

::snicker::

Ethnic Studies.

Sandro
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby Sandro » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:23 pm

the guy in the OP's post should just join the French Foreign Legion and come back to USA with a new identity, get his GED, redo undergrad, retake the LSAT, and go to a good school.

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AreJay711
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby AreJay711 » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:28 pm

Sandro wrote:the guy in the OP's post should just join the French Foreign Legion and come back to USA with a new identity, get his GED, redo undergrad, retake the LSAT, and go to a good school.

:shock: Brilliant! My backup plan is set.

lol @ biglaw or bust. I'm biglaw or French

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Veyron
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby Veyron » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:23 pm

too old for this sh* wrote:the myths some (mtal/veyron) continue to perpetuate are laughable.

It is QUITE possible to find positions paying enough to be comfortable even with a JD from a TTT/TTTT. Hell, I was well over the $60K figure claimed ITT before bonuses with less than 50 hours a week as an effing paralegal (and was over $50K starting). A recent associate hired into the firm I work with now came from a TTTT and LOVES his six figure salary plus the fact that none of us work much over 40-50 hours in a week.

There IS life beyond BigLaw (and certainly outside of T14). Not every position is based on pedigree...many opportunities are more about the SKILLS and the PERSON, not the school on the parchskin.


That's why I spoke of having a good chance at making 60k. The top 5% at a TTT might still have some solid options. Doesn't disprove my point at all.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:29 pm

too old for this sh* wrote:the myths some (mtal/veyron) continue to perpetuate are laughable.

It is QUITE possible to find positions paying enough to be comfortable even with a JD from a TTT/TTTT. Hell, I was well over the $60K figure claimed ITT before bonuses with less than 50 hours a week as an effing paralegal (and was over $50K starting). A recent associate hired into the firm I work with now came from a TTTT and LOVES his six figure salary plus the fact that none of us work much over 40-50 hours in a week.

There IS life beyond BigLaw (and certainly outside of T14). Not every position is based on pedigree...many opportunities are more about the SKILLS and the PERSON, not the school on the parchskin.

The message Veyron and (maybe?) Mtal are making is one of probabilistic terms, not absolutes. It's anecdote proof.

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jessedvhs
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby jessedvhs » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:39 pm

Join the Army, go JAG, loan repay will pay dem bills off. Public sector for that matter.

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MTal
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby MTal » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:44 pm

jessedvhs wrote:Join the Army, go JAG, loan repay will pay dem bills off. Public sector for that matter.


Yeah because the Federal government is pretty much...uhh..."swimming" in money right now.

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AreJay711
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby AreJay711 » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:44 pm

jessedvhs wrote:Join the Army, go JAG, loan repay will pay dem bills off. Public sector for that matter.

Jag doesn't seem interesting after talking to people about it. I'd rather enlist and let IBR take that shit.


Also, lol at the zero private cost -- fuck you budget!

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jessedvhs
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby jessedvhs » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:53 pm

Uhhh..good one.

Unless you're deployed and writing ROE policy, you are pretty much processing article 15 paperwork and DUI cases in garrison. However, it is only a 3 year commitment and probably open up more opportunities after that. Military will cover law school if you are already in and gain acceptance into FLEP and pay back existing loans in yearly increments if you sign up off the street, have friends that did both. Heard similar story from those seeking public sector work. The dollar amounts can change with the needs of the military though.

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fatduck
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby fatduck » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:03 pm

jessedvhs wrote:Join the Army, go JAG, loan repay will pay dem bills off. Public sector for that matter.


i'm not eligible for LRP unfortunately

damn you prior service

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Veyron
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby Veyron » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:08 pm

jessedvhs wrote:Join the Army, go JAG, loan repay will pay dem bills off. Public sector for that matter.


Lol, you think JAG is EASY to get? Lol, you kill me.

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fatduck
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby fatduck » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:23 pm

Veyron wrote:
jessedvhs wrote:Join the Army, go JAG, loan repay will pay dem bills off. Public sector for that matter.


Lol, you think JAG is EASY to get? Lol, you kill me.


true, but all he needs to do is enlist to get LRP

rundoxierun
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby rundoxierun » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:28 pm

oh god.. I guess I should just immediately withdraw from all my schools right now. :roll: :roll: :roll:

FiveSermon
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:39 pm

MTal wrote:Regardless of the posters school rank, this is a very sad situation which the poster did not deserve to have happen to them.


Going to a TTT/TTTT without $$$ or serious connections is just about as deserving of being homeless as opening some stupid business and failing.

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Veyron
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby Veyron » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:31 pm

tkgrrett wrote:oh god.. I guess I should just immediately withdraw from all my schools right now. :roll: :roll: :roll:


Nah, I'm pretty sure that Harvard is the exception to the rule :D .

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swc65
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby swc65 » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:54 pm

lsatextreme wrote:is it just me or does this look a little suspicious.

Sure, I get it, the legal market sucks cow testicles right now, but I can't help but feel this is some major trolling tactic to scare away future generations of lawyers.

Just sayin



Yep this person is part of some grand conspiracy to fabricate a labor shortage and push salaries up for lawyers.

:roll:

The market does suck. I know several 3Ls who are very close to this posters position at my T6.

Some of the guys who go to my gym graduated last year from Fordham AND STILL DONT HAVE JOBS. Two of them are living with their mothers!!

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fatduck
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby fatduck » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:54 pm

Veyron wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:oh god.. I guess I should just immediately withdraw from all my schools right now. :roll: :roll: :roll:


Nah, I'm pretty sure that Harvard is the exception to the rule :D .


prestige whore

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Veyron
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby Veyron » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:12 pm

fatduck wrote:
Veyron wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:oh god.. I guess I should just immediately withdraw from all my schools right now. :roll: :roll: :roll:


Nah, I'm pretty sure that Harvard is the exception to the rule :D .


prestige whore


We've already established that. Now we're just quibbling about the price.

HBK
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Re: This is what awaits many of you upon graduation.

Postby HBK » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:16 pm

Is it hookers and blow?

TL, DNR




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