Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

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alpha24
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Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby alpha24 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:22 pm

I was just wondering.. I am a lawyer from Italy and I also have earned a graduate degree in International Business Law at one prestigious Canadian law school last fall 2010. I am currently seeking admission to undergraduate in order to be able to learn the essentials of Canadian law but I am really struggling with Lsat very likely given the fact that is given in a language that is not my first language.
If there is anybody else on this board in the same sad situation he would be very welcome to add his on view.. anyway I really think in my case like anybody else whose english is not the first language should be given the option to write the lsat in his own language.
I am sure that the composition of the classes would be quite different and would benefit especially under a multicultural perspective. In this respect also one should consider that the percentile of overseas jurists in NorthAmerican faculties of law is practically absent...

HowdyYall
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby HowdyYall » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:26 pm

alpha24 wrote:I was just wondering.. I am a lawyer from Italy and I also have earned a graduate degree in International Business Law at one prestigious Canadian law school last fall 2010. I am currently seeking admission to undergraduate in order to be able to learn the essentials of Canadian law but I am really struggling with Lsat very likely given the fact that is given in a language that is not my first language.
If there is anybody else on this board in the same sad situation he would be very welcome to add his on view.. anyway I really think in my case like anybody else whose english is not the first language should be given the option to write the lsat in his own language.
I am sure that the composition of the classes would be quite different and would benefit especially under a multicultural perspective. In this respect also one should consider that the percentile of overseas jurists in NorthAmerican faculties of law is practically absent...


wait so are you applying to american law schools? maybe you could get all your casebooks and law school exams in your native language too

alpha24
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby alpha24 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:31 pm

I am able to read those because I have a pretty decent Toefl score and also a graduate law degree in english,
the lsat is supposed to measure one's intellectual abilities not language proficiency!
:-)

weejonbu
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby weejonbu » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:47 pm

alpha24 wrote:I am currently seeking admission to undergraduate in order to be able to learn the essentials of Canadian law but I am really struggling with Lsat very likely given the fact that is given in a language that is not my first language.


Kind of confused here... you're trying to go to a university in Canada (as an undergraduate) to study the basics of Canadian law? And you have to take the LSAT to gain admission?

To be honest, I'm not super familiar with how the study of law is carried out in Canada. I assumed it was like the U.S., a three-year graduate program... although it could be like Mexico, in which law is a five-year undergraduate licenciatura. Still, without insulting your intelligence, I wouldn't count on the LSAT being offered in non-English languages any time soon, as the LSAT is used pretty much exclusively as a means of admission into a U.S. or Canadian law school, both of which will be taught entirely in English (and technically Latin, with all the legal terminology, etc.).

alpha24
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby alpha24 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:02 am

Yes I understand your point and I know that it will not soon that the Lsat if it will, will ever be provided as an option in one's own language. However I repeat you that the Lsat is not supposed to assess one's english proficiency rather one's intellectual skills !

Now the point in my case is that such an option would definitely improve my likelihood of getting an admission also given the fact that I already possess two law degrees one in italian another in english. However by the time the Lsat will be provided in any language I will have surely learned
to get an 80 percentile! just give me another 2 years..
:-)

dddhhh
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby dddhhh » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:07 am

No big deal- take the test & mark the box that says English is not your native/dominant language. Prego!

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$1.99
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby $1.99 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:09 am

if you are having trouble with reading and understanding english on the lsat passages, then how are you going to be able to digest even heavier materials in law school?

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SMA22
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby SMA22 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:13 am

OP, I understand your point, but the LSAT isn't supposed to measure intellectual abilities and does not serve as an IQ test--it's used to predict success in the first year of American law school, and that alone. As all law school materials are in English, it seems reasonable that the exam itself would be in English.

alpha24
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby alpha24 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:21 am

Look I have already been through so many heavy digests and articles that you can't even imagine during my master. I have been able to read through it maybe because of my already existent legal knowledge or maybe because the Lsat is not an absolute predictor...
anyway what counts is that I have an A average and I can t do better than 150 at home ... you can just imagine how I do in the real test...
ahh ! Maybe the fact is that "monarch butterflies and bees" or the history of american poetry are more an obstacle than a predictor of success at least with respect to my case...
:-)

javancho
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby javancho » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:46 am

alpha24 wrote:Look I have already been through so many heavy digests and articles that you can't even imagine during my master. I have been able to read through it maybe because of my already existent legal knowledge or maybe because the Lsat is not an absolute predictor...
anyway what counts is that I have an A average and I can t do better than 150 at home ... you can just imagine how I do in the real test...
ahh ! Maybe the fact is that "monarch butterflies and bees" or the history of american poetry are more an obstacle than a predictor of success at least with respect to my case...
:-)


I don't think the LSAT is good predictor of anything, and I sympathize with your pain. But the fact of the matter is that the LSAT is required for US and Canadian schools, and schools are judged based on the LSAT scores of their students. So, you just have to suck it up and do well on the LSAT. Sorry, life is HARD sometimes, and there is nothing that can be done about the LSAT.

If you want emotional support, keep posting here. Otherwise, learn English and practice hard for the LSAT so that you can get a good score. I think that for most Canadian schools, you need a score substantially higher than 160.

alpha24
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby alpha24 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:08 am

Well the problem is .. said by someone that has already studied law .....that this is a policy maybe discriminatory at least with respect to those countries whose human rights codes feature language as ground of discrimination.
Us and Canada Constitutions do not contemplate language as ground of discrimination despite all the fuss they make in matter of human rights defenders. If this claim might seems too extreme it is surely true that multiculturalism remains an underprivileged aspect at least with regards to those students from countries whose language is not english. If you see at law schools foreign student are always 99,9% from common law countries..that seems to me quite elitist..if you see in all other law schools around the world there is not such a tough admission test at the entry rather is the actual knowledge of the law that determines whether one is going to graduate..
Anyway I am sure that I will benefit anyway in all aspects by working two years more on the Lsat !
:-)

r6_philly
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:20 am

There are plenty of Chinese applicants in China that can score 170+. The language on the test is not very difficult. Most foreign test takers have problem with spoken English only. If speed is an issue, then you will not be able to be as efficient as a law student and/or a lawyer. English is not my native language, but I do not see the issue with testing in English. You will be learning and practicing in an English only environment (it's the only official language here).

It would not make any more or less sense to use the LSAT test an American wanting to study/practice law in China.

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joebloe
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby joebloe » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:57 am

r6_philly wrote:There are plenty of Chinese applicants in China that can score 170+. The language on the test is not very difficult. Most foreign test takers have problem with spoken English only. If speed is an issue, then you will not be able to be as efficient as a law student and/or a lawyer. English is not my native language, but I do not see the issue with testing in English. You will be learning and practicing in an English only environment (it's the only official language here).

It would not make any more or less sense to use the LSAT test an American wanting to study/practice law in China.


Slightly OT, but English is not the official language of the United States; there is no official language.

Ignatius Reilly
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby Ignatius Reilly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:07 am

Only in english...op it would have been infinitely easier to use a google search

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androstan
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby androstan » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:26 am

alpha24 wrote:Yes I understand your point and I know that it will not soon that the Lsat if it will, will ever be provided as an option in one's own language. However I repeat you that the Lsat is not supposed to assess one's english proficiency rather one's intellectual skills !


O.O

American law school is all in English.

Some people are extremely talented in mathematics, engineering, etc. but their language skills are not very good. They will not do well in an American law school and probably not be a very good American lawyer.

It doesn't matter if you're Albert Einstein, if you can't quickly read and comprehend dense, complex English you will struggle to practice law in English.

r6_philly
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:39 am

joebloe wrote:
Slightly OT, but English is not the official language of the United States; there is no official language.


I admire your ability to say that with a straight face. :)

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The Gentleman
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby The Gentleman » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:43 am

So if I want to be a lawyer in Italy, I don't need to be proficient in Italian? But seriously OP, there are American law schools that will accept you with a 150. Whether they're worth attending or not is another matter.

r6_philly
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:48 am

The Gentleman wrote:So if I want to be a lawyer in Italy, I don't need to be proficient in Italian? But seriously OP, there are American law schools that will accept you with a 150. Whether they're worth attending or not is another matter.



The way I read it, he thinks he is proficient enough, the test is just unfair. (which doesn't make any sense)

alpha24
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby alpha24 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:01 am

O.O

American law school is all in English.

Some people are extremely talented in mathematics, engineering, etc. but their language skills are not very good. They will not do well in an American law school and probably not be a very good American lawyer.

It doesn't matter if you're Albert Einstein, if you can't quickly read and comprehend dense, complex English you will struggle to practice law in English.

the Toefl should be a sufficient indicator of one's english proficiency..! so why not to give the option of writing the Lsat in one's own language?
the Lsat should only assess how smart is one candidate...
:-)

r6_philly
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:03 am

alpha24 wrote:the Toefl should be a sufficient indicator of one's english proficiency..! so why not to give the option of writing the Lsat in one's own language?
the Lsat should only assess how smart is one candidate...
:-)


I scored very high on the TOEFL but flunked 11th grade English in HS here in the US at around the same time. TOEFL is a decent indicator for most foreign science/engineering students because their school/work is not language intensive. It's arguable that law is all about language.

I know grad students from Asia who scored 99% on the TOEFL but can't follow evening news on TV or understand movies completely. It is not a good indicator of proficiency.

champsound
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby champsound » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:06 am

This "problem" sounds like something you could solve with a well-written addendum. Ironically, if were able to write a well-written addendum then it probably wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

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joebloe
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby joebloe » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:56 pm

r6_philly wrote:
joebloe wrote:
Slightly OT, but English is not the official language of the United States; there is no official language.


I admire your ability to say that with a straight face. :)


Hey, it's technically true. And every time someone tries to make it de jure people start protesting.

r6_philly
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:58 pm

joebloe wrote:
Hey, it's technically true. And every time someone tries to make it de jure people start protesting.


I guess I am more practical. It's hard to argue against de facto realities, codified or not. At least for me, on many issues.

firemed
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby firemed » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:21 pm

The Gentleman wrote:So if I want to be a lawyer in Italy, I don't need to be proficient in Italian? But seriously OP, there are American law schools that will accept you with a 150. Whether they're worth attending or not is another matter.


Not in Canada. OP needs a 160 or above. Unlike here they have no TTT.

alpha24
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Re: Lsat in your own native language for overseas applicants ?

Postby alpha24 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:41 pm

It seems a irony but I can tell you in italy law schools do not require any entry test for an american or canadian a simple certificate of italian language proficiency would be enough to get admission. Under a multicultural perspective law schools would welcome someone coming form overseas to study italian law.. the point is that nobody wants to study italian law!

:-)




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