Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

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HopefulFish
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby HopefulFish » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:23 am

I'm with you all. This is kinda big deal. Law schools getting caught with voluntary deceptions and lies are disturbing to me... USNWR will never effect any changes nor will they cease to make profit. They will continue to print BS as long as people buy it. Change must come from somewhere else.

rose711
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby rose711 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:08 am

And of us have mentioned how law schools are supposed to be teaching students to be extremely ethical people. This just make them look so sleazy. The sad thing is that it probably won't affect accreditation - the tone of the article about fudging numbers is way too soft - it should simply state that they lied over an extended period of time simply to enhance their reputation and to mislead the people relying on their numbers.

Miracle
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby Miracle » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:30 am

We need to create our own C&F board, and judge these Law schools accordingly.

SrLaw
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby SrLaw » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:55 pm

Who cares, Villanova still sucks.

WeArePennState
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby WeArePennState » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:10 pm

http://www.law.villanova.edu/Prospectiv ... dents.aspx

According to the link above, the median LSAT for the 2010 entering class was 160 (3 points below rival, Temple).

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/0 ... ions-data/

According to the news article above, the school claims that the 2010 numbers are accurate.

Does anyone know what the statistics were for last year?

WeArePennState
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby WeArePennState » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:49 pm

The 2009 statistics as reported by Villanova, to be more specific.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby robotclubmember » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:46 pm

SrLaw wrote:Who cares, Villanova still sucks.


Lol. This is like an article about Scott Baio being caught doing lines of coke off a male stripper's dick. I would care, if the story wasn't about a huge nobody to begin with.

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URMdan
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby URMdan » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:22 pm

Fkng quakers

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:21 am

The actions of our former dean were of course unconscionable, as one poster noted, we should at least be treated with honesty given how much we are paying to attend law school. The effects of this, however, are being overrstated. While I believe a slight drop in the US News rankings is likely, our NLJ ranking which is top 40 will not be effected by this information. That is not to say it might not drop two or three spots or move up two or three spots, but if it does drop it will not be due to this scandal.

Here is the series of events that occured. Former Dean Seargent falsely reported admissions data, Dean Gotanda took over, 2010 data was reported accurately, and THEN the mistatements were uncovered by a Villanova commitee tracking correlations between LSAT scores and Law school success and Bar passage rates. The Commitee then reported the misstatements to Dean Gotanda who immediately reported it to the ABA, hired an independent audit firm, and went public with the information. Dean Gotanda did not try to keep in under wraps or sweep it under the rug. He did the ethical thing and disclosed the misreporting, despite the fact that it was discovered by Villanova people and may have been covered up. This indicates that the misstatements were merely the doings of a few bad apples who are no longer at Villanova, and that our current Dean and administration is ethical, strong leaders, that will make Villanova a better place.

US News rankings reacts to information like this, much like many people on this forum. Employers, however, will not punish Villanova students simply because our former Dean, misstated admissions figures. Villanova will remain in the top tier (top 50) of the NLJ rankings, which is much more important than the US News rankings, as the NLJ reports placement statistics, and does not consider many of the other less important factors.


Also, I foresee comments stating "well, Villanova probably missreported employement statistics also." But, please do not speculate. If that were the case then I would rescind many of the comments that I have made. However, that is not the case as of yet and I am confident that it will not be.

Additionally, as I noted, Dean Gotanda hired an independent audit commitee that is completing a comprehensive review of all of our records. If after this review, there is no other violation, as I am confident that there will not be, all can rest assured that Villanova is still a Tier One school as far as placement in Big Law goes, and provides students with numerous other oppurtunities for goverment positions, clerkships, clinics, and externships.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:51 am

This is a serious matter because the deception was intentionally done by law school officials & consisted of verifiable data not subject to misinterpretation.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:54 am

CanadianWolf wrote:This is a serious matter because the deception was intentionally done by law school officials & consisted of verifiable data not subject to misinterpretation.


The misstatements were intentionally done by previous administration who have been dismissed from Villanova. The Acts were of course serious. The effects, however,are being oversstated given how great the current administration has and is handling the matter.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:16 am

I understand that the intentional misreporting was done under a previous law school dean, but it is not clear whether or not all involved have been dismissed. Regardless, this is a very serious matter calling for severe penalties in part to discourage other institutions from such fraudulent practices. Additionally, this was not a one-time fraud, This, according to Villanova's statement to the ABA, was a pattern & practice of fraudulent reporting under the recently departed dean that involved several Villanova law school officials--some of whom may still be there. Any attempt to sugar-coat this repeated fraudulent misreporting is unlikely to help Villanova in the long run, in my opinion.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:19 am

CanadianWolf wrote:I understand that the intentional misreporting was done under a previous law school dean, but it is not clear whether or not all involved have been dismissed. Regardless, this is a very serious matter calling for severe penalties in part to discourage other institutions from such fraudulent practices. Additionally, this was not a one-time fraud, This, according to Villanova's statement to the ABA, was a pattern & practice of fraudulent reporting under the recently departed dean that involved several Villanova law school officials--some of whom may still be there.Any attempt to sugar-coat this repeated fraudulent misreporting is unlikely to help Villanova in the long run, in my opinion.


The law school officials that were involved are gone. They are not still there. So that report is completely untrue.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:20 am

What is your source ? Which law school officials "are gone" due to their participation in this fraudulent reporting activity ?

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mpj_3050
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby mpj_3050 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:22 am

I love how the university spokesman said that it is limited to LSAT and GPA.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:24 am

CanadianWolf wrote:What is your source ? Which law school officials "are gone" due to their participation in this fraudulent reporting activity ?


All of them, and my source is adminstration at Villanova

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:25 am

mpj_3050 wrote:I love how the university spokesman said that it is limited to LSAT and GPA.



It is limited to GPA and LSAT. I am confident that, the independent audit will prove that.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:25 am

"All of them" is pretty vague as is " administration at Villanova". Seems as if you do not know of any other Villanova law school officials who have been dismissed due to this repeated pattern & practice of fraudulent reporting to the ABA or you would have named them or stated their titles. Your source citation is weak.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:26 am

CanadianWolf wrote:"All of them" is pretty vague as is "the administration".



It is, I am unsure of what I can say publicly. I will ask the administration what I can disclose and will get back to you later today.

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Fresh
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby Fresh » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:32 am

CChuff wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:"All of them" is pretty vague as is "the administration".



It is, I am unsure of what I can say publicly. I will ask the administration what I can disclose and will get back to you later today.


I don't know if you answered this before but are you a spokesperson for Villanova? A student/administrator there? You're joining TLS and every post you've made seems to be aimed at defending (as best you can) the current Dean of Nova.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:33 am

Fresh wrote:
CChuff wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:"All of them" is pretty vague as is "the administration".



It is, I am unsure of what I can say publicly. I will ask the administration what I can disclose and will get back to you later today.


I don't know if you answered this before but are you a spokesperson for Villanova? A student/administrator there? You're joining TLS and every post you've made seems to be aimed at defending (as best you can) the current Dean of Nova.


I am a 2L at Villanova Law.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:37 am

One would be a fool to think that this scandal won't hit Villanova hard. Philly and Delaware firms can say "nothing will change" all they want, the fact is what they do is all that matters. This is going to hurt in Philly, Delaware, and every other place a Nova grad looks for employment. Anyone who doesn't think that is true is simply delusional.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:38 am

Aqualibrium wrote:One would be a fool to think that this scandal won't hit Villanova hard. Philly and Delaware firms can say "nothing will change" all they want, the fact is what they do is all that matters. This is going to hurt in Philly, Delaware, and every other place a Nova grad looks for employment. Anyone who doesn't think that is true is simply delusional.


Haha, great speculative statement.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:39 am

Your position & concern are understandable since you are a second year law student at Villanova. Unfortunately, the punishment & repercussions are likely to be serious.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:46 am

CChuff wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:One would be a fool to think that this scandal won't hit Villanova hard. Philly and Delaware firms can say "nothing will change" all they want, the fact is what they do is all that matters. This is going to hurt in Philly, Delaware, and every other place a Nova grad looks for employment. Anyone who doesn't think that is true is simply delusional.


Haha, great speculative statement.


Dude, if you seriously believe that blatantly lying to the aba wont add a stain to the Villanova name in the minds of employers, you really don't understand how the human mind works. Whatever adverse effect comes out of this will probably be felt least in Delaware and Philly, where Nova has established relationships and strong alumni. However, one of the firsts thing that will come to the mind of employers in places where Nova doesn't have those strong ties is this scandal. That certainly won't help any Nova student to get a job.

Reputation matters, and when the reputation that precedes you is a negative one, it matters more.

I understand your reluctance to acknowledge this. Especially since you really won't be stung by it. The people that will be are those who are right now searching for jobs, or who will be searching in the next two years or so. It's undeniable that this sort of negative press is bad. The very fact that your dean had to get on the phone with firms and explain/grovel/seek assurances that relationships wouldn't change illustrates that point.




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