Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

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HeavenWood
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:50 pm

CChuff wrote:
beach_terror wrote:For the sake of argument Canadawolf, either come up with a new argument or just stop posting. You have made your point. The doom and gloom over a news article is kind of ridiculous. We've all conceeded that this will clearly have some impact on our future employment statistics. However, continued speculation from someone who has no idea how the Philadelphia legal market functions is getting quite old. I've been born, raised, and educated in this area... and believe or not, Villanova's reputation isn't going to get crushed over night.

Villanova is, despite whatever the USNWR says, a very reputable school in the area. The hiring partners have maintained a very close-knit relationship to the school. If they were going to jump ship over a scandal, they would have left when they heard of the old Dean banging hookers and the whole peanut girl think. However, they didn't and Villanova's NLJ250 was in the top 50 in the country.

Like I said earlier, it'll probably primarily affect people not attuned to hiring VLS grads anyway. However, the people that donate money and remain active in the community will not just peace the fuck out. Despite what many think, these sorts of incidences cause people to stand by the school. Personally, if my UG was involved with something like this, I wouldn't run down the street yelling the sky is falling. I'd look at the facts, make an informed decision, and go from there. This is what 90% of our alumni will do.



Wow, I am officially done posting.

I cannot top that anyway. haha


*Waiting for a CanadianWolf response filled with weasel word-ridden irrelevancies.*

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:51 pm

At least one of us is dealing with reality.

HeavenWood
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:53 pm

Where's THE CRAB when you need him?

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:55 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:The above cited blog website does some severe name-calling when writing of this law school. To me, it seems a bit harsh.
This thread is interesting in that my posts refer to the ongoing ABA investigation even after confessions to multiple instances of fraudulent reporting of LSAT scores & GPAs of matriculated students to the ABA by at least three Villanova Law School officials. Villanova supporters are trying to focus on the alleged misreporting or alleged manipulation of employment data to the ABA by other law schools. The two are, however, quite different practices. The alleged manipulation of 9 month employment statistics to the ABA may be "gaming the system", but this alleged "gaming" or "manipulation" does not violate ABA rules. The misreprting by Villanova Law School is intentional, fraudulent & clear-cut. Villanova's defense of "look here everybody else is misreporting to the ABA" while probably partially true, does not involve falsefication of facts as does that done by Villanova.
The other tact taken by Villanova supporters is that these admitted falsifications will not harm hiring in Villanova's traditional placement region. The implication, therefore, is that students will not really be harmed because rankings shifts do not, at least immediately, affect traditional hiring patterns. This argument may or may not be valid depending upon the results & consequences of the ongoing ABA investigation & the subsequent passing of time.


Summary: "I said Villanova lied about GPA/LSAT, and you said that other schools lie about employment data. Your argument is based upon presumptions (editor's note: which, considering the wealth of information about employment reporting by law schools, might be true), while mine is based upon admissions. Nevertheless, until the whole thing unravels, we won't know for sure what will happen."

Now that you've admitted you're as clueless as the next dood about the outcome of this situation, you've foreclosed your ability to further speculate without showing everyone that you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby beach_terror » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:57 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:At least one of us is dealing with reality.

Good post bro. Email Villanova alumni and ask them their opinions. Until then, the information 1Ls 2Ls and 3Ls have gathered first hand from employers will trump your meaningless speculation based off a news article or two.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:00 pm

Again, the only opinion that counts will come from the ABA. And if you think that the ABA investigators will be comprised of Villanova alums, then you're not being reasonable.
Again, we'll all know in a few months about ABA action(s).
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:01 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Again, the only opinion that counts will come from the ABA.



Hahaha, what you don't want to mention the non-existent ABA investigation for the 515th time?

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:01 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Again Alas, the only opinion that counts will come from the ABA.



::lights down, curtain closes::

:lol:

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby beach_terror » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:02 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Again, the only opinion that counts will come from the ABA.

The ABA has already informed us that this will in no way affect our reaccreditation. Try again though. Grasping at straws is an admirable way to admit defeat. Go down with the ship bro, eh?

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:03 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Again, the only opinion that counts will come from the ABA. And if you think that the ABA investigators will be comprised of Villanova alums, then you're not being reasonable.



Never mind he went and did it. Dude, do I have to spell it out for you? The investigation is internal.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:04 pm

Your implication is that the ABA has limited itself penalty-wise in an ongoing investigation. I believe that only when published by the ABA & not rumored by Villanova law students.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby beach_terror » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:05 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Your implication is that the ABA has limited itself penalty-wise in an ongoing investigation. I believe that only when published by the ABA & not rumored by Villanova law students.

Yeah or you know, when the ABA decides to open an investigation. Which they have not. If they were going to, they would have.

STRAW MAN COMETH

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:09 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Your implication is that the ABA has limited itself penalty-wise in an ongoing investigation. I believe that only when published by the ABA & not rumored by Villanova law students.


Who said that again? You. Why? Cause you make stuff up.

You talked about WSJ indicating strong penalties against Nova. FALSE

You talked about the the ABA threatening Disacredidation. FALSE

You talked about an "ongoing ABA investigation". FALSE.

You stated: "Your implication is that the ABA has limited itself penalty-wise". FALSE (you just made that up also).

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:14 pm

"While any specific dealings with a law school are confidential..." ABA Journal Feb. 4, 2011 article. The sentence continues on about reporting certain data. The ABA is being kept informed. There is nothing that indicates that the ABA will not impose sanctions. The implication is that the independent law firm hired by the law school will report its findings & that those findings will become part of the ABA file on this matter. Simply confessing & coming clean does not exonerate recent repeated acts of fraudulent disclosures. Nor does it limit the ABA in any manner in which it is authorized to act.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:17 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:"While any specific dealings with a law school are confidential..." ABA Journal Feb. 4, 2011 article. The sentence continues on about reporting certain data. The ABA is being kept informed. There is nothing that indicates that the ABA will not impose sanctions. The implication is that the independent law firm hired by the law school will report its findings & that those findings will become part of the ABA file on this matter. Simply confessing & coming clean does not exonerate recent repeated acts of fraudulent disclosures. Nor does it limit the ABA in any manner in which it is authorized to act.


Still dodging all of the flaws that many have poked through your arguments eh? Many of them non-Villanova students.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:19 pm

We should all know in a few months.

CJG9
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CJG9 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:22 pm

We will all know when the independent audits are complete.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby beach_terror » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:23 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:We should all know in a few months.

read: I have nothing more useful to add, and will leave you with a vague statement that is equally as valuable as most of my arguments in this thread.

CChuff
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CChuff » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:26 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
::lights down, curtain closes::

:lol:

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Section141
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby Section141 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:33 pm

I'll take this thread in another direction. CanadianWolf- feel free not to comment.

Does anyone think that VLS will formally address or contact prospective students? I know they issued their formal response to current students, but I'm just wondering if they'll talk to admitted students to try to convince them to still attend.

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beach_terror
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby beach_terror » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:35 pm

Section141 wrote:I'll take this thread in another direction. CanadianWolf- feel free not to comment.

Does anyone think that VLS will formally address or contact prospective students? I know they issued their formal response to current students, but I'm just wondering if they'll talk to admitted students to try to convince them to still attend.

I'm sure once the admissions department gets back on its feet you'll hear something. I know they're frantically trying to find a few more staff so you guys don't have to wait any longer.

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Section141
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby Section141 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:39 pm

beach_terror wrote:
Section141 wrote:I'll take this thread in another direction. CanadianWolf- feel free not to comment.

Does anyone think that VLS will formally address or contact prospective students? I know they issued their formal response to current students, but I'm just wondering if they'll talk to admitted students to try to convince them to still attend.

I'm sure once the admissions department gets back on its feet you'll hear something. I know they're frantically trying to find a few more staff so you guys don't have to wait any longer.


That's what I figured, I didn't expect anything this week but I'd be surprised if they didn't address this at some point. If they're open to negotiating with me, I'd still be very interested in attending but I figure I'll give them a few weeks before trying.

CJG9
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CJG9 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:43 pm

Section141 wrote:I'll take this thread in another direction. CanadianWolf- feel free not to comment.

Does anyone think that VLS will formally address or contact prospective students? I know they issued their formal response to current students, but I'm just wondering if they'll talk to admitted students to try to convince them to still attend.


Great question. I do know that VLS has created a special admissions committee with the specific purpose of addressing the concerns that prospective students. I have not heard of any specific formal responses that the committee plans to take. I will ask the professor who is the chair of that admissions committee what, if any, plans they have come up with. I can also ask that professor any other specific questions you may have.

PM me if you had any other questions. I will get back to you with regard to the question of formal responses to prospective students.
Last edited by CJG9 on Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:45 pm

This is similiar to many NCAA & state bar investigations which use outside counsel--some of which are hired by the offending institution in hope of mitigating penalties.

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Section141
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Re: Villanova Reported Innacurate Data to the ABA

Postby Section141 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:47 pm

CJG9 wrote:
Section141 wrote:I'll take this thread in another direction. CanadianWolf- feel free not to comment.

Does anyone think that VLS will formally address or contact prospective students? I know they issued their formal response to current students, but I'm just wondering if they'll talk to admitted students to try to convince them to still attend.


Great question. I do know that VLS has created a special admissions committee with the specific purpose of addressing the concerns that prospective students. I have not heard of any specific formal responses that the committee plans to take. I will ask the professor who is the chair of that admissions committee what, if any, plans they have come up with. I can also ask that professor any other specific questions you may have.


This is definitely helpful info. It does seem the current regime is doing a lot to turn it around. One question/concern I'd have would have to do with current professors sticking around. Reputation and prestige and all this is very subjective, and throughout all of this the quality of the education would have been the same. If the faculty all remain to weather the storm, the education quality will remain the same.

I'm sure they'd say that they expect to retain all key faculty members, but it's just a thought.




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