Undocumented Residents in Law School

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Übermensch
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Übermensch » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:20 pm

r6_philly wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
?? I'm just confused how marriage can even be considered a solution, nevermind the easiest solution if what that other guy said is true and it wouldn't affect resident status at all?


What other solution? The legislative act that isn't going to pass? There is no solution right now and is a hot debate.

I think he is most concerned about admission right now. If he can get into a T-14 school, especially with some merit aid, then I think he plans on taking them up on it and having some sense of direction for three years during law school, all the while praying for some legislative progress.

Obviously, the issue regarding the possibility of a job after law school is still important, as are summer internship opportunities, but those are somewhat secondary. Going to law school with no chance of a job is very risky, though, and I think he understands that.

r6_philly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:21 pm

I doubt he can get any aid/enroll without being able to provide document. You may need a SSN or a visa.
Last edited by r6_philly on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Übermensch
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Übermensch » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:26 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Übermensch wrote:I think he is most concerned about admission right now. If he can get into a T-14 school, especially with some merit aid, then I think he plans on taking them up on it and having some sense of direction for three years during law school, all the while praying for some legislative progress.

Obviously, the issue regarding the possibility of a job after law school is still important, as are summer internship opportunities, but those are somewhat secondary. Going to law school with no chance of a job is very risky, though, and I think he understands that.


I doubt he can get any aid/enroll without being able to provide document. You need a SSN or a visa.

Though schools traditionally ask for either a Social Security Number or proof of a valid visa, it seems like there have recently been exceptions to this policy at schools such as Yale, UCLA, and American. Part of the reason we created this thread was to see if anyone else is/was in a similar situation, or has heard of any success stories of people who were.

I think my friend will probably apply to around 20-25 schools, including all of the T-14 schools, and hope that his honesty and numbers will speak for themselves. The way he sees it, he really doesn't have much to lose except the cost of applying.

r6_philly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:31 pm

Übermensch wrote:Though schools traditionally ask for either a Social Security Number or proof of a valid visa, it seems like there have recently been exceptions to this policy at schools such as Yale, UCLA, and American. Part of the reason we created this thread was to see if anyone else is/was in a similar situation, or has heard of any success stories of people who were.

I think my friend will probably apply to around 20-25 schools, including all of the T-14 schools, and hope that his honesty and numbers will speak for themselves. The way he sees it, he really doesn't have much to lose except the cost of applying.


Yale asks:

SSN
If you are a citizen
Country of citizenship
If you are here on a visa, what type?

I think it may be an issue if you don't provide a SSN nor a visa type. It's probably a similar problem elsewhere. Your friend can't file for FAFSA and go through verification because without SSN you need to provide citizenship verification.

jeremysen
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby jeremysen » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:38 pm

r6_philly wrote:
jeremysen wrote:marriage is not the easiest solution lol. IMO r6 meant it as a joke


Tongue-in-cheek. There are only 2 ways that I have seen this worked out are marriage and the investment visas.


calm down bro

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Übermensch
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Übermensch » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:38 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Übermensch wrote:Though schools traditionally ask for either a Social Security Number or proof of a valid visa, it seems like there have recently been exceptions to this policy at schools such as Yale, UCLA, and American. Part of the reason we created this thread was to see if anyone else is/was in a similar situation, or has heard of any success stories of people who were.

I think my friend will probably apply to around 20-25 schools, including all of the T-14 schools, and hope that his honesty and numbers will speak for themselves. The way he sees it, he really doesn't have much to lose except the cost of applying.


Yale asks:

SSN
If you are a citizen
Country of citizenship
If you are here on a visa, what type?

I think it may be an issue if you don't provide a SSN nor a visa type. It's probably a similar problem elsewhere. Your friend can't file for FAFSA and go through verification because without SSN you need to provide citizenship verification.

Obviously, those parts will have to be left blank, and will be clearly and honestly addressed in his personal statement.

You are indeed correct about the FAFSA requiring a Social Security Number, though. If it is necessary to have a FAFSA on file to even be considered for strictly merit-based financial aid at a particular school, I guess he'll be out of the running. If not, I think he has a shot because merit-based aid does not require citizenship or residency, especially at private schools. At this point, we're curious to hear about specific schools that may be particularly lenient in regards to merit scholarships and legal status. Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned UCLA as one.

r6_philly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:40 pm

jeremysen wrote:calm down bro


You assume I wasn't? :D

HopefulFish
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby HopefulFish » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:42 pm

r6_philly wrote:Yale asks:

SSN
If you are a citizen
Country of citizenship
If you are here on a visa, what type?

I think it may be an issue if you don't provide a SSN nor a visa type. It's probably a similar problem elsewhere. Your friend can't file for FAFSA and go through verification because without SSN you need to provide citizenship verification.


It is not an issue AT ALL to not provide a SSN and neither will that affect his admissions. Enrollment at any private schools is possible and at most public schools as well.

Only thing not possible for him is Federal grants/aids and most state grants/aids. Texas is where he has the best luck with scholarships as they have legislative authority to give them out to undocumented students as well.

R6, stop being offended. We're trying to provide an accurate reponse to him, and I think you should sit this one out because you're obviously not knowledgeable in this field.

HopefulFish
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby HopefulFish » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:44 pm

Übermensch wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Übermensch wrote:Though schools traditionally ask for either a Social Security Number or proof of a valid visa, it seems like there have recently been exceptions to this policy at schools such as Yale, UCLA, and American. Part of the reason we created this thread was to see if anyone else is/was in a similar situation, or has heard of any success stories of people who were.

I think my friend will probably apply to around 20-25 schools, including all of the T-14 schools, and hope that his honesty and numbers will speak for themselves. The way he sees it, he really doesn't have much to lose except the cost of applying.


Yale asks:

SSN
If you are a citizen
Country of citizenship
If you are here on a visa, what type?

I think it may be an issue if you don't provide a SSN nor a visa type. It's probably a similar problem elsewhere. Your friend can't file for FAFSA and go through verification because without SSN you need to provide citizenship verification.

Obviously, those parts will have to be left blank, and will be clearly and honestly addressed in his personal statement.

You are indeed correct about the FAFSA requiring a Social Security Number, though. If it is necessary to have a FAFSA on file to even be considered for strictly merit-based financial aid at a particular school, I guess he'll be out of the running. If not, I think he has a shot because merit-based aid does not require citizenship or residency, especially at private schools. At this point, we're curious to hear about specific schools that may be particularly lenient in regards to merit scholarships and legal status. Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned UCLA as one.



UCLA cannot give out to him merit-scholarships or any type of scholarship that is not purely private. Only in-state tuition rate to qualifying students.

jeremysen
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby jeremysen » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:48 pm

HopefulFish wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Yale asks:

SSN
If you are a citizen
Country of citizenship
If you are here on a visa, what type?

I think it may be an issue if you don't provide a SSN nor a visa type. It's probably a similar problem elsewhere. Your friend can't file for FAFSA and go through verification because without SSN you need to provide citizenship verification.


It is not an issue AT ALL to not provide a SSN and neither will that affect his admissions. Enrollment at any private schools is possible and at most public schools as well.

Only thing not possible for him is Federal grants/aids and most state grants/aids. Texas is where he has the best luck with scholarships as they have legislative authority to give them out to undocumented students as well.

R6, stop being offended. We're trying to provide an accurate reponse to him, and I think you should sit this one out because you're obviously not knowledgeable in this field.



lol fish, yale Does ask that stuff fyi.

imho, no one on these boards knows whether withholding that info would affect admissions.

jeremysen
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby jeremysen » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:49 pm

r6_philly wrote:
jeremysen wrote:calm down bro


You assume I wasn't? :D


u Know u were banging that computer in class. : :wink:

r6_philly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:52 pm

HopefulFish wrote:R6, stop being offended. We're trying to provide an accurate reponse to him, and I think you should sit this one out because you're obviously not knowledgeable in this field.


The only think I am offended about is you keep striking everything out. It's disrespectful. But like I said, if it makes what you said more valid.

I get hassled about status at every school I attended. It's isn't the admissions folks, but registrar/financial aid/bursar. Maybe there are loop holes to jump through, but I have to hand in my passport everywhere. It may be doable, I am skeptical. I also live around/have family members who are either in or have gone through the same plight, but they were not able to attend colleges undocumented, so more power to you who can find the loopholes.

In all seriousness, good luck to OP.

Strike this out if you wish too. Whatever :)

r6_philly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:52 pm

jeremysen wrote:
u Know u were banging that computer in class. : :wink:


Come on, internet arguments are only funny.

rose711
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby rose711 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:55 pm

I hope your friend is smart enough to ignore the obviously wrong advice given in this thread.

He should not leave the US and he should not get married to a USC thinking it will help him - he is EWI which is a major, major issue. He can easily find good legal advice about his situation, but no one can solve it for him- there is no answer.

I think I mentioned this before that instead of blindly applying he or you or someone should call or email all the schools he is interested in attending and asking the people in admisssions and financial aid. As he plans on explaining his life situation honestly anyway, what harm will he get from asking ahead of time.

I understand that the reality of his situation is terrible and unfair to him - but he should get the facts before he spends all his money and energy applying.

I wish I knew more about the specifics of school aid and undocumented residents - but I don't and I don't know how to find it other than just asking the schools directly.

I wish him well. I wouldn't advise him going to school with no future but I suppose it is really his call.

PS. For what it is worth, if an undocumented student has graduated from high school in NYC (or maybe even taken the GED here) that student can attend college. I don't know about other states, but it is possible to go to college as an undocumented student.
Last edited by rose711 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FiveSermon
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby FiveSermon » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:56 pm

rose711 wrote:I hope your friend is smart enough to ignore the obviously wrong advice given in this thread.

He should not leave the US and he should not get married to a USC thinking it will help him - he is EWI which is a major, major issue. He can easily find good legal advice about his situation, but no one can solve it for him- there is no answer.

I think I mentioned this before that instead of blindly applying he or you or someone should call or email all the schools he is interested in attending and asking the people in admisssions and financial aid. As he plans on explaining his life situation honestly anyway, what harm will he get from asking ahead of time.

I understand that the reality of his situation is terrible and unfair to him - but he should get the facts before he spends all his money and energy applying.

I wish I knew more about the specifics of school aid and undocumented residents - but I don't and I don't know how to find it other than just asking the schools directly.

I wish him well. I wouldn't advise him going to school with no future but I suppose it is really his call.

:roll: :roll:

r6_philly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:57 pm

FiveSermon wrote: :roll: :roll:


Well it is because he didn't ask for it.

jeremysen
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby jeremysen » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:59 pm

r6_philly wrote:
jeremysen wrote:
u Know u were banging that computer in class. : :wink:


Come on, internet arguments are only funny.



haha i kid - agreed


best luck to OP's friend. im out...without anything really substantive to contribute to this thread

HopefulFish
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby HopefulFish » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:01 pm

jeremysen wrote:
lol fish, yale Does ask that stuff fyi.

imho, no one on these boards knows whether withholding that info would affect admissions.


Of course Yale asks that. I just simply said leaving it blank won't hurt you (or rather it shouldn't).

HopefulFish
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby HopefulFish » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:06 pm

r6_philly wrote:
FiveSermon wrote: :roll: :roll:


Well it is because he didn't ask for it.


x2. Neither is he culpable for any of his status issues.

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Übermensch
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Übermensch » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:11 pm

rose711 wrote:I hope your friend is smart enough to ignore the obviously wrong advice given in this thread.

He should not leave the US and he should not get married to a USC thinking it will help him - he is EWI which is a major, major issue. He can easily find good legal advice about his situation, but no one can solve it for him- there is no answer.

I think I mentioned this before that instead of blindly applying he or you or someone should call or email all the schools he is interested in attending and asking the people in admisssions and financial aid. As he plans on explaining his life situation honestly anyway, what harm will he get from asking ahead of time.

I understand that the reality of his situation is terrible and unfair to him - but he should get the facts before he spends all his money and energy applying.

I wish I knew more about the specifics of school aid and undocumented residents - but I don't and I don't know how to find it other than just asking the schools directly.

I wish him well. I wouldn't advise him going to school with no future but I suppose it is really his call.

PS. For what it is worth, if an undocumented student has graduated from high school in NYC (or maybe even taken the GED here) that student can attend college. I don't know about other states, but it is possible to go to college as an undocumented student.

Thanks for your advice. We've been trying to determine how to approach law schools that he plans to apply to about the issue. Should he e-mail or call them? What exactly should he say? It's a touchy subject. However, since he plans on dealing with it honestly in his personal statement, there probably isn't much of a risk to personally contacting admissions offices. We're sort of afraid of mixed responses that may deter him from applying, especially if they haven't seen many cases like this one.

By the way, you're definitely right about New York. My friend was able to attend a private university in another state because of a similar policy. It isn't too difficult to find information about which states have such policies for public high schools and undergraduate institutions, but the information isn't readily available online for law schools. That's where we thought consulting this website may help.

So far, we definitely have more direction, so thank you to all those who have provided advice so far. We sincerely appreciate it. Keep it coming! Any new information or insight is helpful. :-)

rose711
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby rose711 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:14 pm

I don't know the best way to approach a school to ask about their policy on admitting undocumented students.

It might be best just to call and say you are getting information for a friend who is thinking of applying but wants to be anonymous until he decides to apply. But then you run into the issue of having to get calls back from someone who isn't in - and leaving a phone number for callback may not be what you want to do at this point.

Or you could just say that you are working on a project for a class and that you are surveying many schools for their answers.

If it was me, I would make a gmail account just for the project and email from school computers. I can't think of any reason why schools wouldn't be forthcoming with information - if they don't/ can't accept undocumented residents, they should disclose that upfront. I think that schools should have a pretty clear policy on this issue.

I think that to make it easy on him, your friend should remain anonymous until he decides to apply.

HopefulFish
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby HopefulFish » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:18 pm

I have personally researched all the California schools and a few schools in Texas and New York. They welcome any candidate with competitive applications.

In sum, admissions/enrollment is not a problem, it's the cost of attending.

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dr123
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby dr123 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:46 pm

Does his ug have a law school? if so he should go there they obviously dont mind that hes undocumented

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Übermensch
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Übermensch » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:56 pm

dr123 wrote:Does his ug have a law school? if so he should go there they obviously dont mind that hes undocumented

It does have a law school, but with his numbers, he can do much better. Obviously, beggars can't be choosers, but he definitely has the numbers for a T-14 school. His undergraduate institution has a law school ranked between 50 and 100, so it's Tier II.

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dr123
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby dr123 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:57 pm

Übermensch wrote:
dr123 wrote:Does his ug have a law school? if so he should go there they obviously dont mind that hes undocumented

It does have a law school, but with his numbers, he can do much better. Obviously, beggars can't be choosers, but he definitely has the numbers for a T-14 school. His undergraduate institution has a law school ranked between 60 and 70.


did he get merit aid as an UG? (moreover, how did he pay for ug?) if so then hes prolly looking at a full ride. Thats probably the best option since he cannot be admitted ton the bar.




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