Undocumented Residents in Law School

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Übermensch
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Übermensch » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:35 pm

He's mentioned the articles on Luis Perez, and plans to try to contact him.

He's also shown me other articles of successful undocumented applicants. Here's one about someone who graduated from Yale Law School:
--LinkRemoved--

Unfortunately, the article doesn't include the author's name, so finding contact information would be nearly impossible.

Before creating this thread, we also found a thread of an undocumented TLS user who was accepted to American.

I guess this proves it's definitely possible. If anyone is/was in a similar situation, please feel free to send me a private message if you don't feel comfortable posting publicly. The question of receiving merit-based financial aid is still on the table.

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dr123
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby dr123 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:38 pm

If your buddy already has a pretty good job why doesn't he just stay at that job and wait to see if the dream act or something similar passes? Law school isn't going anywhere, If he goes to LS takes on a boatload of debt and the dream act never passes he is going to be in dire straits

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vanwinkle
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:41 pm

dr123 wrote:If your buddy already has a pretty good job why doesn't he just stay at that job and wait to see if the dream act or something similar passes? Law school isn't going anywhere, If he goes to LS takes on a boatload of debt and the dream act never passes he is going to be in dire straits

Waiting for the DREAM Act to pass is like waiting at the bottom of the swimming pool until you grow gills.

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gov
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby gov » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:42 pm

Übermensch wrote:He's mentioned the articles on Luis Perez, and plans to try to contact him.

He's also shown me other articles of successful undocumented applicants. Here's one about someone who graduated from Yale Law School:
--LinkRemoved--

Unfortunately, the article doesn't include the author's name, so finding contact information would be nearly impossible.

Before creating this thread, we also found a thread of an undocumented TLS user who was accepted to American.

I guess this proves it's definitely possible. If anyone is/was in a similar situation, please feel free to send me a private message if you don't feel comfortable posting publicly. The question of receiving merit-based financial aid is still on the table.


Quoted from --LinkRemoved-- ....yes, he was offered a job, but he can't work...
However, because I cannot legally work in the U.S., I cannot start my career. My life is on hold. Since graduating and studying for the bar exam, I have been unemployed for months. The DREAM Act would allow me to not only pursue my career, but also to be a productive member of society

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dr123
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby dr123 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:45 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
dr123 wrote:If your buddy already has a pretty good job why doesn't he just stay at that job and wait to see if the dream act or something similar passes? Law school isn't going anywhere, If he goes to LS takes on a boatload of debt and the dream act never passes he is going to be in dire straits

Waiting for the DREAM Act to pass is like waiting at the bottom of the swimming pool until you grow gills.


Its better to wait and see then go to LS immediately when you aren't eligible to be accepted to the bar

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Übermensch
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Übermensch » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:08 pm

dr123 wrote:If your buddy already has a pretty good job why doesn't he just stay at that job and wait to see if the dream act or something similar passes? Law school isn't going anywhere, If he goes to LS takes on a boatload of debt and the dream act never passes he is going to be in dire straits

He has a job, but it isn't exactly that great. It's not worth forgoing law school to keep it.

He's really interested in doing public interest work for recent immigrants and refugees, and law school will help him in that regard. Plus, it will give him some sense of (probably false) security and direction for three years, during which he hopes there will be some legislative progress made on immigration. President Obama does seem pretty adamant about passing the DREAM Act. He mentioned it as recently as the State of the Union address. However, it will indeed be difficult to overcome Republican opposition in Congress.

HopefulFish
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby HopefulFish » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:38 am

Have your friend (or you on his behalf) PM me any questions. I have been working with this issue for some time and do have some extensive knowledge about it. I have been doing volunteer work for immigration centers for about 3 years now, and I've encountered many of these inspiring stories.

In short

1) Your friend can apply to ANY private law schools. I'd advise him to forego schools in Georgia, as all the universities and state colleges there are clamping up admissions against undocumented students. There is also a pending law that will require any public institutions in Georgia to turn over undocumented students to immigration authorities. However, do note that only Southern states have draonican laws against these students. Most other states do provide opportunities for admissions without legal repercussions. California, Michigan, and Texas have in-state tuition for undocumented students (law included). In a lot of cases, the alumns from some of these schools put together private funds for 1-2 undocumented students per year.

2) He can take the California bar exam without residency status. Each state has its own rules on this, but from my limited knowledge, Bar exams are not usually limited to only residents.

3) Is your friend a Entered Without Inspection (brought via border cross) or a visa-overstay? If he is a EWI, then there is just really no hope for any legalization, and no employment prospects. If he is a visa-overstay, there are several possible ways: Marriage, business sponsorship, family sponsorship etc. I know most Hispanic undocumented students are sadly out. Most European and Asian undocumented students have a pathway, although a very arduous one.

4) The Dream Act will most likely not pass as long as Republicans are still breathing. He'd probably have spent better time praying for the 2nd coming of Jesus than hoping Republicans would show sympathy to him. DA is not a dependable solution.

I am highly sympathetic to your friend's plight, and I will help him out as much as I can. Feel free to PM me.
Last edited by HopefulFish on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:45 am

Übermensch wrote:A friend of mine wants to attend law school in the United States, but he is an undocumented resident. He's afraid to create his own account and ask about this, so he asked me to do it.

He was brought to the states as an infant and grew up here. He graduated from an American university, and has the numbers to get into a T-14 school, even as high as HYS.

He has shown me articles about undocumented residents graduating from some law schools, including Yale, UCLA, and American, so it seems possible to be admitted. However, he's wondering if there is anything he should do or be aware of. Obviously, job prospects are slim to none unless the laws change. Besides that, which is obviously an important issue, is admission to American law schools likely? If so, which schools have lenient residency requirements?



I guess I am confused about this: tons of international students who are not US citizens attend, some of whom have probably been in physical residence in the US for a while and some of whom have not. I would think there would be a way to make it work even if there is no citizenship or residency status, though I imagine it could be trickier than the typical international student who gets a student visa because the person may be in the US illegally in the first place. This is obviously a complicated and very politicized issue. My personal feeling is that lying about citizenship status is generally a big mistake.

Ignatius Reilly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Ignatius Reilly » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:48 am

Marriage of convenience?

HopefulFish
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby HopefulFish » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:57 am

Lawquacious wrote:I guess I am confused about this: tons of international students who are not US citizens attend, some of whom have probably been in physical residence in the US for a while and some of whom have not. I would think there would be a way to make it work even if there is no citizenship or residency status, though I imagine it could be trickier than the typical international student who gets a student visa because the person may be in the US illegally in the first place. This is obviously a complicated and very politicized issue. My personal feeling is that lying about citizenship status is generally a big mistake.


There is no practical advantage of lying about one's citizenship status, as he would eventually be caught and he won't get far. It's also not pissible to lie about his status to get federal loans, unless he used a completely stolen identity, but then again he would get caught in the future.

I've never heard of ANY higher-education aspiring undocumented students to ever have done this. It just doesn't help them at all.

Also, it seems that his friend entered the country as a child via border crossing. People who enter this country without inspection has absolutely no pathways to any legalization. Other foreign undocumented students, who at least entered via visa + inspection through the airport (e.g. tourist visa, student visa) but stayed beyond their alloted them, CAN POSSIBLY adjust their status here.

We have a very lovely immigration system that Republicans adore over the airwaves, but the Democrats don't care enough to change.

Ignatius Reilly wrote:Marriage of convenience?


Not for him. He is a EWI.

Ignatius Reilly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Ignatius Reilly » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:00 am

There is no need to make this political

HopefulFish
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby HopefulFish » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:02 am

Ignatius Reilly wrote:There is no need to make this political


"This" is nothing but politics.

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Deuce
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Deuce » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:13 am

Image

rose711
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby rose711 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:07 am

If he wants to do immigration work - he should look for graduate schools that teach immigration but aren't law schools. I hate to keep posting CUNY - but they are the only place I know about, there may be others around the country. I'm sure California must have some place that trains immigration advisers..
There are ways to get into immigration without the cost and expense of law school. He needs to research those. And he might be able to work for himself, so he won't have to deal with the job issue. He really needs to accept that he is not going to work as an attorney barring major legislative change.

He's illegal, EWI and probably working without authorization. I'm sure he knows that lying about status will only make his terrible situation worse. He sounds like a sensible person, but unless he is wealthy so the cost is irrelevant, or he gets scholarships, and he can't think of anything better to spend 3 years on... there just is no sense in getting a law degree when he can't practice.

He can't make decisions hoping the Dream Act will pass - also, has he read the Dream Act? Does he meet all the onerous provisions? I don't remember how it deals with working without authorization. But, even if it passes, it is still very difficult for the people it will benefit to obtain those benefits.

--LinkRemoved--

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gov
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby gov » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:11 pm

The issue isn't whether or not he can attend a school. Obviously he could. But, if he wants to work as a lawyer, that's the problem.

And in CA, you must have an SSN or you can apply for an exemption. How often they grant exemptions, I have no idea.

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Requirements.aspx

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Übermensch
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Übermensch » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:46 pm

govorett wrote:The issue isn't whether or not he can attend a school. Obviously he could. But, if he wants to work as a lawyer, that's the problem.

And in CA, you must have an SSN or you can apply for an exemption. How often they grant exemptions, I have no idea.

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Requirements.aspx

Thanks! That's good to know. I wonder if other states have a similar policy. However, I'm not sure what good this would do for the typical undocumented resident. It seems to get them one step closer to practicing by allowing them to take the BAR, but landing a job would still be nearly impossible. I wonder what the point of this exemption policy is, then.

HopefulFish
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby HopefulFish » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:55 am

Übermensch wrote:
govorett wrote:The issue isn't whether or not he can attend a school. Obviously he could. But, if he wants to work as a lawyer, that's the problem.

And in CA, you must have an SSN or you can apply for an exemption. How often they grant exemptions, I have no idea.

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Requirements.aspx

Thanks! That's good to know. I wonder if other states have a similar policy. However, I'm not sure what good this would do for the typical undocumented resident. It seems to get them one step closer to practicing by allowing them to take the BAR, but landing a job would still be nearly impossible. I wonder what the point of this exemption policy is, then.


Some legal working immigrants don't have SSN right away. Legal international students also do not. However, legal international students can take the bar and then get employment sponsorship for a greencard. My guess is that he is a EWI. If so, he cannot in any way practice law as an attorney. However, if he can qualify for 245i, then he can actually marry or have an employer sponsor him for a greencard. I really hope he is not a EWI.

r6_philly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:23 am

How did the friend receive financial aid without SSN/status? Schools verify statuses. How did he/she get a college ID without showing a Photo ID?

I am sure there are at least one form he/she signed without disclosing the truth which carries criminal consequences.

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Übermensch
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Übermensch » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:35 am

r6_philly wrote:How did the friend receive financial aid without SSN/status? Schools verify statuses. How did he/she get a college ID without showing a Photo ID?

I am sure there are at least one form he/she signed without disclosing the truth which carries criminal consequences.

He doesn't receive any financial aid.

He attended a private college in a state that allows exemptions from providing a Social Security Number if you can prove you are a resident of that state.

To my knowledge, he hasn't lied about his status on any document.

r6_philly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:30 am

Übermensch wrote:He doesn't receive any financial aid.

He attended a private college in a state that allows exemptions from providing a Social Security Number if you can prove you are a resident of that state.

To my knowledge, he hasn't lied about his status on any document.


How did he prove the residency? It may be easier to accomplish a change of status at some point if it doesn't seem to have defrauded the state. I had a friend who was in a similar situation, but his parent gained legal status through marriage later on, and he was able to gain status easily. If the family is wealthy, there are other immigration methods that can be employed.

I think this may more of an issue down the road, because a person can't continue to stay in this country illegally. A few of my family friends are in similar situation right now. It severely limit their ability to proceed in life which is a big shame.

Income tax evasion may become a problem eventually as well.

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Übermensch
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Übermensch » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:50 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Übermensch wrote:He doesn't receive any financial aid.

He attended a private college in a state that allows exemptions from providing a Social Security Number if you can prove you are a resident of that state.

To my knowledge, he hasn't lied about his status on any document.


How did he prove the residency? It may be easier to accomplish a change of status at some point if it doesn't seem to have defrauded the state. I had a friend who was in a similar situation, but his parent gained legal status through marriage later on, and he was able to gain status easily. If the family is wealthy, there are other immigration methods that can be employed.

I think this may more of an issue down the road, because a person can't continue to stay in this country illegally. A few of my family friends are in similar situation right now. It severely limit their ability to proceed in life which is a big shame.

Income tax evasion may become a problem eventually as well.

To prove residency, I think he needed to show that he has been living in this state for four years prior to applying to college, which he proved through his high school records and diploma.

HopefulFish
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby HopefulFish » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:51 pm

r6_philly wrote:How did the friend receive financial aid without SSN/status? Schools verify statuses. How did he/she get a college ID without showing a Photo ID?

I am sure there are at least one form he/she signed without disclosing the truth which carries criminal consequences.


No

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gov
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby gov » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:52 pm

HopefulFish wrote:
r6_philly wrote:How did the friend receive financial aid without SSN/status? Schools verify statuses. How did he/she get a college ID without showing a Photo ID?

I am sure there are at least one form he/she signed without disclosing the truth which carries criminal consequences.


No


I am pretty sure that unless he used a fake SSN, he is fine.

r6_philly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby r6_philly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:12 pm

HopefulFish wrote:
r6_philly wrote:How did the friend receive financial aid without SSN/status? Schools verify statuses. How did he/she get a college ID without showing a Photo ID?

I am sure there are at least one form he/she signed without disclosing the truth which carries criminal consequences.


No


I have signed a lot of forms asking me to certify all stated is true. Maybe you have not.

Ignatius Reilly
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Re: Undocumented Residents in Law School

Postby Ignatius Reilly » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:26 pm

1) I was under the impression that he could go back to mexico apply for residency and live here

2) Honestly though I really dont care...dont break the law that you care so much about. There are people who come here legally, and honestly your friend should not reap the rewards of illegal behavior. Alot of really bright hard working people would love to immigrate...those scientists that we need so badly.




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