Help - Texas School Choice

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Mce252
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Help - Texas School Choice

Postby Mce252 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:26 pm

I am still waiting on several decisions, but if it came down to Texas Tech University versus South Texas College of Law, from what you know about the value of a degree at each, what would you advise? Let's pretend for the time being that the cost at each is equal.

I would like to probably end up working in Houston. Also, wherever I go to school, my wife needs to be able to find a job. In my mind, Houston has more opportunity for her than Lubbock does.

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brose
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby brose » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:29 pm

STCL.

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txadv11
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby txadv11 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:27 pm

I've visited both in the past three months (STCL on Saturday)

STCL Pros: Better trial ad program, very competitive legal writing program, right in downtown Houston--it is built in to the Court of Appeals

STCL Cons: not affiliated with UG (hence a bad ranking, huge student population--like twice Tech law) estimated cost of attendance/living is 49,000/yr. sloppy administration--slow application time, poorly ran open house--they seem busy and understaffed. Scholarships are only 2,000 to a max of 12,000 for first year.

Tech Pros: Sometimes has a better "name" to it, 3rd tier (probably should be close to Top 100--no way to know for sure), tuition is around 10k cheaper, cost of living is 25% below the national average, interesting programs available, Lainer--best plantiff's lawyer donates money and time to school. Bar pass rate near the top for TX

Tech Cons: Lubbock, lack of pull to a big city (Dallas has SMU, Houston has UofH STCL, Austin has UT ...etc)

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Mce252
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby Mce252 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:32 pm

txadv11 wrote:I've visited both in the past three months (STCL on Saturday)

STCL Pros: Better trial ad program, very competitive legal writing program, right in downtown Houston--it is built in to the Court of Appeals

STCL Cons: not affiliated with UG (hence a bad ranking, huge student population--like twice Tech law) estimated cost of attendance/living is 49,000/yr. sloppy administration--slow application time, poorly ran open house--they seem busy and understaffed. Scholarships are only 2,000 to a max of 12,000 for first year.

Tech Pros: Sometimes has a better "name" to it, 3rd tier (probably should be close to Top 100--no way to know for sure), tuition is around 10k cheaper, cost of living is 25% below the national average, interesting programs available, Lainer--best plantiff's lawyer donates money and time to school. Bar pass rate near the top for TX

Tech Cons: Lubbock, lack of pull to a big city (Dallas has SMU, Houston has UofH STCL, Austin has UT ...etc)



If I came back to Houston, do you think my job prospects would be that much different with a degree from Tech as opposed to STCL?

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JordynAsh
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby JordynAsh » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:34 pm

Would you consider a retake for SMU, U of H, or UT?

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txadv11
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby txadv11 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:41 pm

Mce252 wrote:
txadv11 wrote:I've visited both in the past three months (STCL on Saturday)

STCL Pros: Better trial ad program, very competitive legal writing program, right in downtown Houston--it is built in to the Court of Appeals

STCL Cons: not affiliated with UG (hence a bad ranking, huge student population--like twice Tech law) estimated cost of attendance/living is 49,000/yr. sloppy administration--slow application time, poorly ran open house--they seem busy and understaffed. Scholarships are only 2,000 to a max of 12,000 for first year.

Tech Pros: Sometimes has a better "name" to it, 3rd tier (probably should be close to Top 100--no way to know for sure), tuition is around 10k cheaper, cost of living is 25% below the national average, interesting programs available, Lainer--best plantiff's lawyer donates money and time to school. Bar pass rate near the top for TX

Tech Cons: Lubbock, lack of pull to a big city (Dallas has SMU, Houston has UofH STCL, Austin has UT ...etc)



If I came back to Houston, do you think my job prospects would be that much different with a degree from Tech as opposed to STCL?


Doubt it would make a huge difference....however for some reason deep down, lol, I think that the top 10% from Tech has better opportunities in general than the top 10% from STCL...I have no reasoning or basis...I wish I knew why.

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Mce252
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby Mce252 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:41 pm

JordynAsh wrote:Would you consider a retake for SMU, U of H, or UT?


I am currently waitlisted at U of H, so I can keep that in my back pocket but I'm certainly not relying on it. I would consider a retake but I took the LSAT twice with only a one point jump the second time around. I just haven't made any progress on the test and I put a significant amount of time into it. Overall, I only gained five points from diag to highest score. Standardized testing just doesn't work out for me.

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txadv11
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby txadv11 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:53 pm

JordynAsh wrote:Would you consider a retake for SMU, U of H, or UT?

Medians:
STCL 154, TT 156.

SMU 161, U of H 162, , UT 166

Although it can definitely be done, we are talking apples and oranges here.

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deadpanic
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby deadpanic » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:53 pm

txadv11 wrote:STCL Cons: not affiliated with UG (hence a bad ranking, huge student population--like twice Tech law)


I don't think this is why this is the reason for the bad ranking and huge population; it is because they take low scores and tons of students to earn more money.

estimated cost of attendance/living is 49,000/yr.


OP, this is the biggest con you need to know. do not attend this school for 50k/year. Either retake for houston/SMU (with scholarship) or go to tech and be content with that part of TX.

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txadv11
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby txadv11 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:57 pm

I do want to point out that STCL gave me a pretty nice packet about jobs (if they are honest :roll: )
This includes percent of jobs that require JD's (many other schools lump home-depot stockroom workers into the "employed" category.
They also claim a average starting salary of 70K!

I'd definitely like to see the "real" figures such as how many recent "employed" grads are doing document review, but compared to peer schools propaganda this looks decent.

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Mce252
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby Mce252 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:07 pm

txadv11 wrote:I do want to point out that STCL gave me a pretty nice packet about jobs (if they are honest :roll: )
This includes percent of jobs that require JD's (many other schools lump home-depot stockroom workers into the "employed" category.
They also claim a average starting salary of 70K!

I'd definitely like to see the "real" figures such as how many recent "employed" grads are doing document review, but compared to peer schools propaganda this looks decent.



Right now, I'm leaning towards Tech being the better option. I think the degree carries a marginally higher value and it's much more affordable. Unless something divine happens and I get off the waitlist at U of H, it looks like I may be headed to Lubbock.

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txadv11
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby txadv11 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:19 pm

depending on my WL, i may see you there

crit_racer
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby crit_racer » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:25 pm

I would take Tech for the reasons already listed. Mainly that it's cheaper.

I work at a firm in Austin, and I know lawyers with both degrees. I definitely know more lawyers from STCL that work in Austin than lawyers from TT working in Austin. Having said that, it seems that Tech enjoys a better reputation.

I'm not looking at many schools in Texas, but I've had two attorneys that are both very respectable recommend Tech to me.

Overall, I think it's the better deal. I do wonder where Tech grads are working, though, as there don't seem to be TOO many in Austin.

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txadv11
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby txadv11 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:27 pm

I don't know what it is about Austin...I mean it is the capitol and has UT...but still I don't hear much about the legal market compared to Dallas, Houston...even San Antonio!

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Mce252
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby Mce252 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:03 am

Thanks for the advice.

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niederbomb
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby niederbomb » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:29 am

There are three law schools worth attending in Texas: UT, UH, and SMU. Anything else, and you're taking a huge risk.

Try a different method and retake.

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txadv11
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby txadv11 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:36 am

niederbomb wrote:There are three law schools worth attending in Texas: UT, UH, and SMU. Anything else, and you're taking a huge risk.

Try a different method and retake.


If you are going to take the typical TLS approach why leave out Baylor? I'd say it is almost EXACTLY competitive with SMU and U of H.

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Mce252
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby Mce252 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:36 am

niederbomb wrote:There are three law schools worth attending in Texas: UT, UH, and SMU. Anything else, and you're taking a huge risk.

Try a different method and retake.


I appreciate your advice but that has nothing to do with my question. I feel that there are enough attorneys who work in Texas and did not graduate from those three schools to make me feel just fine doing the same.

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txadv11
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby txadv11 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:43 am

Mce- seeing as I'm probably going to TT or STCL, I have some helpful info for you.

The state bar association lists about 75,000 practicing attorneys. They brake it down further by school, gender, race ...etc. The important category for us should be years practicing. They categorize attorneys by years practiced and the largest group is 25+ years. Combine that with the fact that baby boomers were born 65 years (and up) ago. An estimated 10,000 boomers will retire each DAY for the next 20 years. I know it is a lot to gamble with, but the statistics show we are hopefully in for a better road ahead. I have friends at TT, STCL, and St. Mary's, all of which say it CAN be done.
Source: http://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm ... ntID=11230

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Mce252
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby Mce252 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:45 am

txadv11 wrote:Mce- seeing as I'm probably going to TT or STCL, I have some helpful info for you.

The state bar association lists about 75,000 practicing attorneys. They brake it down further by school, gender, race ...etc. The important category for us should be years practicing. They categorize attorneys by years practiced and the largest group is 25+ years. Combine that with the fact that baby boomers were born 65 years (and up) ago. An estimated 10,000 boomers will retire each DAY for the next 20 years. I know it is a lot to gamble with, but the statistics show we are hopefully in for a better road ahead. I have friends at TT, STCL, and St. Mary's, all of which say it CAN be done.
Source: http://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm ... ntID=11230


You're full of all kinds of nice information.

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txadv11
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby txadv11 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:47 am

lol I have been fighting with the decision above (retake for the elites or don't go) and have done due diligence to figure it out--ultimately I'll be happy at Tech or STCL.
But I will be gunning the crap out of my 1L (not actually gunning lol) for negotiating scholarships up.

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mbusch22
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby mbusch22 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:56 am

txadv11 wrote:
JordynAsh wrote:Would you consider a retake for SMU, U of H, or UT?

Medians:
STCL 154, TT 156.

SMU 161, U of H 162, , UT 166

Although it can definitely be done, we are talking apples and oranges here.



SMU median is not 161, its more like 164. Maybe you're talking about the part-time program.

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txadv11
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby txadv11 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:58 am

mbusch22 wrote:
txadv11 wrote:
JordynAsh wrote:Would you consider a retake for SMU, U of H, or UT?

Medians:
STCL 154, TT 156.

SMU 161, U of H 162, , UT 166

Although it can definitely be done, we are talking apples and oranges here.



SMU median is not 161, its more like 164. Maybe you're talking about the part-time program.


My bad, that's what I get for just going to lawschool numbers instead of actually looking it up :oops:

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JordynAsh
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Re: Help - Texas School Choice

Postby JordynAsh » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:58 pm

txadv11 wrote:
JordynAsh wrote:Would you consider a retake for SMU, U of H, or UT?

Medians:
STCL 154, TT 156.

SMU 161, U of H 162, , UT 166

Although it can definitely be done, we are talking apples and oranges here.


I went from a 155 diag to a 168 on the actual LSAT with 4 months of studying. The LSAT is a very learnable test for most people.

OP has expressed a lack of desire to retake, but for others in his situation that are willing to do so, retake = TCR.

Comparing typical job opportunities out of STCL and TT to SMU/UH/UT is the real apples-to-oranges comparison.




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