Where do I go? Forum

[Rory1987]

Not a very convincing one, especially if you're looking to work in the NE. The best reason I can see to pick Vandy over GULC at equal cost is that COL is lower in Nashville than DC.

Still, my vote goes to Michigan.

That seems to be the smart choice (assuming I don't get into UPenn), but I'm having a hard time believeing (though I should) that Michigan places better in the NE than Cornell.

Also, hasn't Vandy's placement been better than GULC recently? Or were you referring to the fact that GULC has a better NE presence than Vandy?

[HugerThanSoup]

Michigan.

[seriously????]

I'm just curious what constitutes as having ties? I may have read carelessly, but even if you lived in philly and have friends there, do you have friends at target firms you would like to work, or know partners, etc? So can you please explain what constitutes "strong ties"?
And if philly is an overwhelming number one location for yourself, might as well take Temple and have no debt. An extra hundred grand is a lot. duh

[Flustercluck]

Vanderbilt ($75,000)
Cornell ($45,000 assuming they will match Michigan)
Michigan ($45,000)
Temple (full ride)
W&M (graduate fellowship and near a full ride)
Illinois (full ride)
BU ($75,000)
Georgetown (assuming they’ll match Michigan at $45,000)
Texas ($69,000)
*I still need to hear back from GWU at all – it looks like I’d have a shot at $105,000 if I get in, though.

Michigan is definitely the most portable of those listed, and gives you a greater margin of error. At equal cost, Michigan is easily superior to Cornell. If you don't want to live or practice in Texas (which is what you seem to have indicated) then I would also say Michigan over UT. For markets in the NE, Vandy would really only be worth it over Michigan if they gave you more $$$.

Unless BU give you a full ride or you're dead set on Boston, they're not worth full at W&M. Illinois will get you to midwest, but not NE, which is what you're leaning toward, which makes W&M better.

Temple is great if you're deadset on Philly, but your margin for error seems too slim for comfort given the safer options you have at higher ranked schools, and your job market is much more limited.

So, that leaves Michigan, W&M, GTown, and maybe GW. At this point, it's your attitudes on debt, risk, and mobility. Michigan can take you most anywhere if you do well, but costs the most. GTown would be worth it if they matched money and you wanted to stay NE, but their placement has struggled more than Michigan's ITE. GW would have to give you 90-100k to be worth considering. W&M is a good option, but not as mobile as Michigan or GTown, and ITE not as mobile means less job markets to look at.

I'd vote Michigan with 45K, because even if Philly is your #1, I'd prefer to have the option to explore multiple markets and have a degree that's recognized and respected in all of them ITE.

[Rory1987]

I'm just curious what constitutes as having ties? I may have read carelessly, but even if you lived in philly and have friends there, do you have friends at target firms you would like to work, or know partners, etc? So can you please explain what constitutes "strong ties"?
And if philly is an overwhelming number one location for yourself, might as well take Temple and have no debt. An extra hundred grand is a lot. duh

Well I work for a V100 firm headquartered here. I also did my UG at Temple and have spent my entire life in the state (though just the last six years in Philly). So I guess that counts as "strong" as far as ties go. That's why I'm asking if I went to a place like Texas (or even UCLA if I get in, maybe UIUC even) or Cornell or wherever, would I have trouble coming back?

It seems that the consensus is Michigan (regard in legal community) or Temple (location), but I really don't want to go to Michigan because of its location and the thought of attending Temple (and maybe graduating at median) when I have several T14s (with money!) and Vandy and Texas and probably GWU with lots of money and UIUC and W&M with boatloads of money, jyst scares me. I mean, if I went to Temple and didn't do well, how could I live with myself knowing all that I turned down?

Hopefully I get into Penn -- but even then, it will probably be at sticker. And, is it really wise to turn down money from Michigan or even Cornell to attend another T14 with marginally better job prospects?

[Rory1987]

Vanderbilt ($75,000)
Cornell ($45,000 assuming they will match Michigan)
Michigan ($45,000)
Temple (full ride)
W&M (graduate fellowship and near a full ride)
Illinois (full ride)
BU ($75,000)
Georgetown (assuming they’ll match Michigan at $45,000)
Texas ($69,000)
*I still need to hear back from GWU at all – it looks like I’d have a shot at $105,000 if I get in, though.

Michigan is definitely the most portable of those listed, and gives you a greater margin of error. At equal cost, Michigan is easily superior to Cornell. If you don't want to live or practice in Texas (which is what you seem to have indicated) then I would also say Michigan over UT. For markets in the NE, Vandy would really only be worth it over Michigan if they gave you more $$$.

Unless BU give you a full ride or you're dead set on Boston, they're not worth full at W&M. Illinois will get you to midwest, but not NE, which is what you're leaning toward, which makes W&M better.

Temple is great if you're deadset on Philly, but your margin for error seems too slim for comfort given the safer options you have at higher ranked schools, and your job market is much more limited.

So, that leaves Michigan, W&M, GTown, and maybe GW. At this point, it's your attitudes on debt, risk, and mobility. Michigan can take you most anywhere if you do well, but costs the most. GTown would be worth it if they matched money and you wanted to stay NE, but their placement has struggled more than Michigan's ITE. GW would have to give you 90-100k to be worth considering. W&M is a good option, but not as mobile as Michigan or GTown, and ITE not as mobile means less job markets to look at.

I'd vote Michigan with 45K, because even if Philly is your #1, I'd prefer to have the option to explore multiple markets and have a degree that's recognized and respected in all of them ITE.

Hmmm, I like your explanation -- but why cross off Cornell and not GULC? What's the difference between the two? If anything, doesn't Cornell have slightly better placement? Or do you think that GULC will be more mobile in the NE and especially Philly?

[Flustercluck]

Hmmm, I like your explanation -- but why cross off Cornell and not GULC? What's the difference between the two? If anything, doesn't Cornell have slightly better placement? Or do you think that GULC will be more mobile in the NE and especially Philly?

Cornell's placement numbers are boosted by NYC. The NYC market is improving, but you never indicated that you wanted NYC specifically. Cornell is better for NYC and probably Boston, but for the Midatlantic like Philly and DC, GTown is superior.

*and Michigan is significantly better than or equal to either in pretty much all markets, which is why I would take Michigan with equal $$$

[Rory1987]

Hmmm, I like your explanation -- but why cross off Cornell and not GULC? What's the difference between the two? If anything, doesn't Cornell have slightly better placement? Or do you think that GULC will be more mobile in the NE and especially Philly?

Cornell's placement numbers are boosted by NYC. The NYC market is improving, but you never indicated that you wanted NYC specifically. Cornell is better for NYC and probably Boston, but for the Midatlantic like Philly and DC, GTown is superior.

Hmmm, well NYC, Pittsburgh, and Boston would be my next three target cities (and SF, though I'd have no shot ITE with no ties) in that order. Any idea as to which school has a leg up in the Steel City? And is GULC's presence in Philly that much better than Cornell's?

[Rory1987]

Damn. I appear to be struggling to locate any logical and valid reason to attend Cornell over Michigan

Does anybody want to play devil's advocate? For Cornell or any other school, that it?

[blink]

Hmmm, I like your explanation -- but why cross off Cornell and not GULC? What's the difference between the two? If anything, doesn't Cornell have slightly better placement? Or do you think that GULC will be more mobile in the NE and especially Philly?

Cornell's placement numbers are boosted by NYC. The NYC market is improving, but you never indicated that you wanted NYC specifically. Cornell is better for NYC and probably Boston, but for the Midatlantic like Philly and DC, GTown is superior.

Hmmm, well NYC, Pittsburgh, and Boston would be my next three target cities (and SF, though I'd have no shot ITE with no ties) in that order. Any idea as to which school has a leg up in the Steel City? And is GULC's presence in Philly that much better than Cornell's?

University of Green Bay

[Flustercluck]

Hmmm, I like your explanation -- but why cross off Cornell and not GULC? What's the difference between the two? If anything, doesn't Cornell have slightly better placement? Or do you think that GULC will be more mobile in the NE and especially Philly?

Cornell's placement numbers are boosted by NYC. The NYC market is improving, but you never indicated that you wanted NYC specifically. Cornell is better for NYC and probably Boston, but for the Midatlantic like Philly and DC, GTown is superior.

Hmmm, well NYC, Pittsburgh, and Boston would be my next three target cities (and SF, though I'd have no shot ITE with no ties) in that order. Any idea as to which school has a leg up in the Steel City? And is GULC's presence in Philly that much better than Cornell's?

That goes to a level of specificity I can't speak to, but I'm also speaking as someone more interested in job security after graduation than a preferred market. For BigLaw in general, Michigan place 51% of their students according to the most recent NLJ report, whereas Cornell place 41.5% and GTown placed 42.8%. That extra ten percent cushion is enough to sway me, personally.

As to specific placement, however, I'd check http://www.nalpdirectory.com/ and see which schools have firms from your desired markets at OCI. It's not the best indicator of success entering those markets, but it could definitely help. Also, with the firms you find there in each market, check their websites and look up how many alums they have from each respective school. Once again, not a perfect indicator, but something that could definitely give you a better idea.

[KMaine]

Go to Michigan. I go to Cornell and got into Michigan, but with your circumstances, Michigan is the best of your choices, unless you are extremely debt averse.

[lisjjen]

I'm facing a lot of your choices OP, and they're starting to make me pull my hair out. The only scholarship I've heard back on is Texas @ 70k. Well, William and Mary offered me 24k, but I meant a serious offer.

I like the idea of living in Texas, I am just terrified of getting there and realizing that I deeply, truly, hate the state. I don't think I will, but once I'm there, I'm there. Apparently, I'm going to have to work in Dallas or Houston after I get out.

[CMDantes]

Congrats on a great cycle. I would take UT

[Rory1987]

I'm going to visit UT and if I like Austin as much as I think I may like it, then this decision is going to get that much tougher.

[seriously????]

austins really cool, it is definitely the coolest little city in the states. Have you given up on Temple? If you don't see yourself in biglaw for anything more than 3 years, it might not be a bad option if you are content with Philly. The extra 100k you'd spend on a T14 somewhat cancels out two years of biglaw income vs. an average job (which with your ties already, you should likely easily get in Philly.) But like everyone is saying, Temple has little mobility, although top students might be able to crack DC, NY, and Pittsburgh.
If you do pick Temple, just keep your street smarts. You are always one mugging or jumping from kids or crack heads to make you think illadelphia is now killadelphia.

[Rory1987]

austins really cool, it is definitely the coolest little city in the states. Have you given up on Temple? If you don't see yourself in biglaw for anything more than 3 years, it might not be a bad option if you are content with Philly. The extra 100k you'd spend on a T14 somewhat cancels out two years of biglaw income vs. an average job (which with your ties already, you should likely easily get in Philly.) But like everyone is saying, Temple has little mobility, although top students might be able to crack DC, NY, and Pittsburgh.
If you do pick Temple, just keep your street smarts. You are always one mugging or jumping from kids or crack heads to make you think illadelphia is now killadelphia.

Haha, I survived four-and-a-half years at Temple as an UG so I'll be fine. I never actually had any problems in North Philly. I actually got mugged when I moved (during my junior year at Temple) to a safe and gentrified version of South Philly.

[seriously????]

austins really cool, it is definitely the coolest little city in the states. Have you given up on Temple? If you don't see yourself in biglaw for anything more than 3 years, it might not be a bad option if you are content with Philly. The extra 100k you'd spend on a T14 somewhat cancels out two years of biglaw income vs. an average job (which with your ties already, you should likely easily get in Philly.) But like everyone is saying, Temple has little mobility, although top students might be able to crack DC, NY, and Pittsburgh.
If you do pick Temple, just keep your street smarts. You are always one mugging or jumping from kids or crack heads to make you think illadelphia is now killadelphia.

Haha, I survived four-and-a-half years at Temple as an UG so I'll be fine. I never actually had any problems in North Philly. I actually got mugged when I moved (during my junior year at Temple) to a safe and gentrified version of South Philly.

Haha, but you did get mugged, though. That's what's so weird about philly, shit goes down pretty much whatever. That's cool that the mugging didn't warp your perception, but stuff like that definitely has unnerved some people to say the least.
Mind me asking what the mugging was like? Did they just run up and swipe your purse, or did you get a beatdown?

[ohyouknow]

The general consensus is Michigan, and yet you seem resistant. If I were you, I would visit Michigan. You might have a better opinion of the location after you've seen it. If you still don't like it, then you can cross it off your list and look more closely at Cornell, GULC and UT.

[applepiecrust]

My vote would be Michigan as well -- go visit it though and see if it wears down your resistance to the location.

Good luck with Penn though -- that would solve your problems (though I'd still pick Michigan over Penn/I guess I did by EDing Michigan over Penn).

[kwais]

I say Michigan, probably the most mobile JD of your choices. Most importantly though, I think you are great for including Providence in your destinations. While not a legal powerhouse, my hometown is one of the most livable and convenient places in the states. Go Rhody!