3.47 and 151

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northwood
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby northwood » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:47 pm

yes you are correct. best of luck

taxguy
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby taxguy » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:48 pm

I would be surprised if you got in anywhere other than Loyola and Univeristy of the Pacific. I think you need two more safety schools. Sadly, many of the schools that you are applying too are VERY LSAT oriented such as Miami and USC. You have little chance at these.

lretter
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:54 pm

I would certainly go to Loyola if accepted, and although not a first choice for me, McGeorge contacted me through my LSAC info and said they waived the app fee and would give me priority review and automatic scholarship consideration if I applied.

I figured if I at least get into such schools and keep my grades up I may be in good shape...?

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northwood
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby northwood » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:56 pm

hate to burst your bubble again, but U of Pacific sent that email out to a lot of people. Dont read into those emails. Schools want to get as many applicants as possible, so they can be more selective. Since it will only cost you 12 dollars, send it in. USe Lawschoolnumbers as a guide for your chances, and check on schools info to see what people who got scholarships had for numbers. Its not scientific, but it will give you a decent ballpark of your chances at getting in, and in with money offered.

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akili
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby akili » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:56 pm

lretter wrote:I would certainly go to Loyola if accepted, and although not a first choice for me, McGeorge contacted me through my LSAC info and said they waived the app fee and would give me priority review and automatic scholarship consideration if I applied.

I figured if I at least get into such schools and keep my grades up I may be in good shape...?


What do you want to do with your law degree? That makes a huge difference. What kind of salary are you expecting? Why do you want to go to law school?

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Neidermeyer519
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby Neidermeyer519 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:56 pm

I would say that admission is possible and scholarship is unlikely. I know the general consensus on these forums is to retake, and as much as hearing that used to just piss me off, it's actually good advice. An inordinate ammount of emphasis is placed on your LSAT score. I improved my score by 8 points with a month and a half of prep using the powerscore books. I'd make sure I played a couple games when I was just sitting around watching tv, and it really helped.

So what you have to ask yourself is if your ok with racking up a ton of debt or if you would rather take a year off to bring up the LSAT. If you're a solid student, then you may even be eligible for scholarship money after your first year of law school as well.

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txadv11
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby txadv11 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:59 pm

lretter wrote:....McGeorge contacted me through my LSAC info and said they waived the app fee and would give me priority review and automatic scholarship consideration if I applied.



Be careful about these generated emails. Many schools target people with lower than median GPA or LSAT scores to apply so they can keep the % rejected high and look more selective. I'm not saying that this is the case...just be careful.

lretter
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:06 pm

Well, prior to my lsat scores I wanted to work in biglaw. Clearly, depending on what happens next, I will have amend the dream to better fit reality..

I spoke with a rep at McGeorge and they seemed supportive... Also going to do the Loyola Chat today and see what they suggest.

I'm aware of the "car salesman" spiel of these schools, but honestly, I i actually get in to at least one or two of my choice schools, I will be relatively content.

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akili
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby akili » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:08 pm

Just so you know, biglaw will not likely be happening from either of those schools. Are you prepared to take on 200K in loans to work at 40,000/year job? (worst case scenario, but not unlikely at all)

lretter
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:15 pm

its sounds discouraging, but is it only worth going to law school and raking up the debt if you are in the top 30% of a top 30 school? I figured that in the end there is still much one can do with a JD...

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akili
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby akili » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:17 pm

lretter wrote:its sounds discouraging, but is it only worth going to law school and raking up the debt if you are in the top 30% of a top 30 school? I figured that in the end there is still much one can do with a JD...


In this economy, yeah sort of. I would say lower schools can be fine with scholarship and understanding that your shots at BigLaw are about 0. Why would you rake up that much debt for a tiny tiny chance that you would get a job that would allow you to pay it back?

People talk about law degrees being "versatile"...They really aren't so much. In fact, if you aren't doing law they will make you overqualified for other jobs.

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aspire2more
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby aspire2more » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:41 pm

Have you checked into the loan repayment plans for public interest work at these schools? I work in public interest and some of the attorneys here got assistance both from their schools and from our agency with loan repayment. Just a suggestion.

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androstan
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby androstan » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:37 pm

With that combination of numbers and lacking URM status, you likely have much better career options elsewhere. A ~3.5 GPA just about anywhere is nothing to sneeze at, while a 151 can definitely be sneezed at.

You really want to be looking, at least, at going to a top regional school that is #2 in its region only to the t14. Most of these are in the top 50ish and will want you to have at least ~160 LSAT or so. Barring admission to a top regional you want to get a substantial scholarship without strict strings attached at an ABA accredited school that's #3 in its region.

In both cases you're going to want to bust your ass and make the top 25% of your class, preferably the top 10% in the second case.

If you aim any lower you are, imho, taking a huge risk of three years of education/training that you won't use and/or a mountain of debt that you will be enslaved to for the rest of your life. You will be standing in line for jobs behind a long train of graduates with better credentials, whether they're truly "smarter" or more hard-working or not.

Law is an extremely competitive, flooded field. Only about half of all the JDs produced are even needed and only around half again of those really land a position they're happy about (biglaw, gov't, professorship, PI, article III's, etc.). The rest do "shitlaw", doc review and other contract work, etc. That would indicate that this field really only has a chance of being satisfying for the top quartile of graduating JDs. A way to predict this is by taking 15*GPA + LSAT. If you're at 225 or above that's a good sign you have the minimum prerequisite (although it's only a correlation, and not a perfect one) to succeed. If you have at least 211 that would indicate you have the minimum prerequisite to even get to use your degree and get paid something. Incidentally the former corresponds to a 170 LSAT and ~3.7 GPA (essentially t14 numbers) and the latter to ~163/3.2 (essentially tier 1 numbers). If you're below 225 you need to consider carefully why. Some people slacked off in undergraduate, got a poor GPA, but grew up and have a solid work ethic now. Some people are genuinely poor standardized test takers. They have a history of doing well in school, succeeding in extracurriculars, but always underperforming on standardized tests. You need to really have a track record of underperforming, though. Be honest with yourself.

If you're not scoring well on the LSAT you need to seriously and honestly ask yourself why, and then ask yourself if you can really succeed in this profession while lacking some essential skills and qualities the LSAT tests. Law is not really open, nor is it even a good option, for people with mediocre reading, verbal reasoning, time-management, stress-management, or pressure-management skills.

You may be excellent at other things. You may even be excellent at almost everything but have a problem concentrating under stress and pressure. Lawyers deal with very time-sensitive material, multiple impending deadlines, and have to think clearly in high pressure situations. You can sit at home and write the most brilliant novel at your liesure or prove Goldbach's Conjecture in your free time, obviously feats of certifiable genius, but if you freeze up or collapse under pressure you won't make a good attorney. The guy who thinks at a slightly lower level but keeps it cool and clear at all times becomes a succesful attorney.
Last edited by androstan on Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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2011L1
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby 2011L1 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:47 pm

txadv11 wrote:
lretter wrote:....McGeorge contacted me through my LSAC info and said they waived the app fee and would give me priority review and automatic scholarship consideration if I applied.



Be careful about these generated emails. Many schools target people with lower than median GPA or LSAT scores to apply so they can keep the % rejected high and look more selective. I'm not saying that this is the case...just be careful.


++1

lretter
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:28 pm

I apologize in advance for the noob question, but what about part-time programs? It seems most are just one additional year of study for a JD and admission to those respective programs seems much easier... Are such programs mostly restricted for untraditional law students?

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:33 pm

You do have a chance at Miami. Check lawschoolnumbers.com 2008-2009 admissions cycle in which several participants with a 150 were admitted. Last year a wall was set at 153, but apps may be down this year hinting that Miami may return to the practices of prior cycles.

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androstan
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby androstan » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:43 pm

Don't encourage OP too much. I'm sure s/he can get in somewhere. That's not enough. You need to get in to somewhere with a combination of placement power and financial aid that's strong enough to warrant rejecting other options.

HopefulFish
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby HopefulFish » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:37 pm

You will find that lower ranked schools are more conscious about their incoming students' #s than top schools. Apply for it anyway if you have the money. I'd corss off USC and Pepperdine. They are notorious whores when it comes to #s.

lretter
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:50 pm

usc? wow i would have thought ucla is more focused on #s than usc..

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Moral_Midgetry
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby Moral_Midgetry » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:52 pm

HopefulFish wrote:You will find that lower ranked schools are more conscious about their incoming students' #s than top schools. Apply for it anyway if you have the money. I'd corss off USC and Pepperdine. They are notorious whores when it comes to #s.


Speaking of notorious whores...

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tttlllsss
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby tttlllsss » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:03 am

lretter wrote:I plan on applying at least to some schools with reasonable admission prospects and maybe deciding from there... if 150,000 in debt is my only option, then I guess the only option left is to retake.

Am I correct in my understanding that admission is possible, but scholarship unlikely?


First of all, sticker + COL at most of the LSs on your list is $180k+ (not 150). Now, $180k+ in debt isn't a death sentence, provided you have some means to pay it off (I'm thinking T14 or even T6). The problem is going to a T2 in a crowded mkt and undertaking that sort of debt. Well, you're making your future very difficult in that case.

Second, w/ a 3.47/151, you won't even get into any of the schools on your list, so my point above doesn't even apply to you. You're way, way overshooting. W/ your numbers, you're fit for T4. Frankly, I think many T4s would reject you.

You have a decent GPA from a good undergrad. Really, you should raise your LSAT to 160 or so, preferably 165+, or abandon LS.

lretter
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:24 pm

The thing is, I have at about 10-15k saved to spend per year for law school. So the debt accumulated will not be as bad as paying full sticker. Besides, I've been told that one can apply for merit scholarship if 1L gpa permits it... is this true?

anyway, applications have gone out. I guess i'll just wait and see where I can luck out. If not, then its back to LSAT prep for me.

Thank you all for the honest responses, I appreciate it.

Best regards to all.

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Moral_Midgetry
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby Moral_Midgetry » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:28 pm

lretter wrote:The thing is, I have at about 10-15k saved to spend per year for law school. So the debt accumulated will not be as bad as paying full sticker. Besides, I've been told that one can apply for merit scholarship if 1L gpa permits it... is this true?

anyway, applications have gone out. I guess i'll just wait and see where I can luck out. If not, then its back to LSAT prep for me.

Thank you all for the honest responses, I appreciate it.

Best regards to all.


Same problem as transferring. Depending on the school you will need to be top of your class to warrant merit schollys. Retakith bro.

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aspire2more
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby aspire2more » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:57 pm

lretter wrote:anyway, applications have gone out. I guess i'll just wait and see where I can luck out. If not, then its back to LSAT prep for me.


Let us know what you end up deciding to do and best of luck!

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gothamm
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby gothamm » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:45 pm

you have all these good things going for you. why not put in that extra effort by studying for the LSAT for 6 months and make things GREAT.




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