3.47 and 151

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lretter
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3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:42 am

Hey everyone, I've been following these threads for a while now and just decided to take the plunge. Thus, this is my first post on here!

I have a 3.47 ugpa from William and Mary (notoriously hard ass school) but my LSAT is relatively abysmal at 151. I retook and got basically the same score... Unfortunately, I'm not a very good test taker. The thing is, I am applying to pretty much every (reasonable) school in Cali as well as a couple "sol but maybe..." schools and was wondering if you guys had any thoughts you'd like to share on my chances.

One thing to note, is that there are two things that might help look nice to adcomms: immigrant background, and 6 years work experience with securities law (interested field of study)

So far the school list is:
Brooklyn Law School
University of California, Davis School of Law (King Hall)
University of California, Hastings College of the Law
University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) School of Law
Chapman University School of Law
Loyola Law School, Loyola Marymount University
University of Miami School of Law
University of the Pacific, McGeorge School of Law
Pepperdine University School of Law
University of San Diego--School of Law
University of San Francisco School of Law
Santa Clara University School of Law
University of Southern California, Gould School of Law
Southwestern Law School
University of California Irvine School of Law

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Moral_Midgetry
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby Moral_Midgetry » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:48 am

retake

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bport hopeful
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby bport hopeful » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:49 am

/thread

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txadv11
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby txadv11 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:56 am

Please don't be offended if I am wrong, but "immigrant background"--are you a URM?

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akili
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby akili » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:03 pm

Your GPA isn't bad but, to be frank, your LSAT score is really bad. A 151 puts you below average. I know it's frustrating to take the LSAT 3 times, but with hard work you can make serious gains in your score. If you are, in fact, URM then getting to 160 would mean you were golden for most of those schools. If not, I'd shoot for at least 165. California would be a great place to live, but COL is high and the UC schools are VERY expensive. I would not go unless I had a substantial scholarship.

Was it test anxiety?

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:08 pm

Exactly what is "basically the same score" that you achieved on your LSAT retake ? My impression is that your retake score was lower than your 151 & that could be troubling to some. How did you prepare for the LSAT exams ? Based on only your numbers, Southwestern & Miami may be your best hopes.

lretter
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:11 pm

immigrant background as in Russian Jew. It's nothing too underrepresented, I think, but still makes for a compelling story...

The problem is I cant retake the lsat without taking a year off... and taking a year off does not fit well with my life at the moment.

I take it there is literally no chance of getting in most places with a 151? I was hopeing that the experience factor and LORs i have might help leverage the lsat.

The thing is I'm just not good with timed exams. Be it ADHD or whatever, I am skeptical as to whether the score would significantly change as the highest I've had on practice was 155.


What is the general opinion on transferring after 1L??

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akili
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby akili » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:13 pm

lretter wrote:immigrant background as in Russian Jew. It's nothing too underrepresented, I think, but still makes for a compelling story...

The problem is I cant retake the lsat without taking a year off... and taking a year off does not fit well with my life at the moment.

I take it there is literally no chance of getting in most places with a 151? I was hopeing that the experience factor and LORs i have might help leverage the lsat.

The thing is I'm just not good with timed exams. Be it ADHD or whatever, I am skeptical as to whether the score would significantly change as the highest I've had on practice was 155.


What is the general opinion on transferring after 1L??


You cannot get in anywhere worth going with a 151. Experience + LORs can help, but only if you are already a qualified candidate. If you go to a law school now, you will be in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt with crappy job prospects. If you can't take a year off now, I'd say don't go to law school and just find a decent job.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:14 pm

Chances are low for top 70 or so law schools but there are rare exceptions as lawschoolnumbers.com shows a Northwestern acceptance to one with an LSAT score of 150 (significant work experience, foreign national, first language was not English).

Again, what was your LSAT retake score & how did you prepare for the LSAT exams that you have taken ?
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lretter
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:16 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Exactly what is "basically the same score" that you achieved on your LSAT retake ? My impression is that your retake score was lower than your 151 & that could be troubling to some. How did you prepare for the LSAT exams ? Based on only your numbers, Southwestern & Miami may be your best hopes.



Retake was 150. I prepped with Kaplan...twice. Albeit, I was involved with a bunch of other work at the same time so could not devote as much practice as I would have liked, but still.

Is the general consensus to take a year off to work and retake the LSAT? How to law schools appreciate such a break?

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Moral_Midgetry
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby Moral_Midgetry » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:17 pm

lretter wrote:immigrant background as in Russian Jew. It's nothing too underrepresented, I think, but still makes for a compelling story...

The problem is I cant retake the lsat without taking a year off... and taking a year off does not fit well with my life at the moment.

I take it there is literally no chance of getting in most places with a 151? I was hopeing that the experience factor and LORs i have might help leverage the lsat.

The thing is I'm just not good with timed exams. Be it ADHD or whatever, I am skeptical as to whether the score would significantly change as the highest I've had on practice was 155.


What is the general opinion on transferring after 1L??


I doubt you'll get much of a bump for being a Russian Jew immigrant. I could be wrong though. You may not think taking a year off fits in well with your life but it isn't as bad as it seems (unless you have some extenuating circumstance). I thought the same thing before I took a year off and it turned out to be one of the best decisions I ever made. It took some work but I prepped and got my score to a 165. Not to mention you'll be refreshed when you get to law school the next year. I honestly think you'll be throwing your money away applying and attending some of those schools so retake is your best option.

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Moral_Midgetry
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby Moral_Midgetry » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:19 pm

lretter wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Exactly what is "basically the same score" that you achieved on your LSAT retake ? My impression is that your retake score was lower than your 151 & that could be troubling to some. How did you prepare for the LSAT exams ? Based on only your numbers, Southwestern & Miami may be your best hopes.



Retake was 150. I prepped with Kaplan...twice. Albeit, I was involved with a bunch of other work at the same time so could not devote as much practice as I would have liked, but still.

Is the general consensus to take a year off to work and retake the LSAT? How to law schools appreciate such a break?


I haven't completed my cycle but those that I visited seemed to act like taking a year off was no big deal and was common. However, I already had substantial WE while in undergrad.

Edit: I also have done some volunteer work in my time off.
Last edited by Moral_Midgetry on Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Prepare differently & retake. Consider PowerScore or Test Masters or Manhatten for LSAT test prep or a private tutor if feasible. Law schools view a year break as positive if engaged in productive, maturing activity such as working, teaching or volunteering. But the single most important factor in law school admissions is the LSAT score which accounts for about 65% or even a bit more at most law schools.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lretter
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:23 pm

would it not be better to gain admission to schools such as Southwestern, Whittier, etc. and then potentially transfer out?

Is it truly worthless applying at this point, or should I spend the $$ to at least test my luck?

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:27 pm

There are law schools which are likely to accept you if you are willing to practice in that geographic area in a very small law firm or in a solo-practice or office sharing arrangement. Indiana University in Indianapolis is a possibility, as is Southwestern, Albany, Stetson, Michigan State among others. Really depends upon how much debt you can afford in light of dismal job prospects. Probably better to avoid law school until your LSAT is in the upper 150s or better because then you can get scholarship money.

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Moral_Midgetry
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby Moral_Midgetry » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:30 pm

lretter wrote:would it not be better to gain admission to schools such as Southwestern, Whittier, etc. and then potentially transfer out?

Is it truly worthless applying at this point, or should I spend the $$ to at least test my luck?


Transferring is a lot more difficult than you might think. You need to be top 25% of your class or so which is difficult, even at bad schools.

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northwood
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby northwood » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:31 pm

do not go to a school with the intentions of transferring. It most likely wont happen.

You say that you prepped while you were busy with other things. You need to find a way to dedicate yourself for the test. Sign up for june and devote a lot of time to prep. There is a lot of good resources on this site to help you. If you want to go the class route, or tutor, try manhatten, p.r, test masters, or a private tutor. many of these companies have representatives on this forum. They will help you out. You need to treat this like a second job. Devote at least 2-3 hours a day, 5-6 days a week to study. Just like fitness intstructors will tell you to block out a set period of time for fitness every day, you need to do the same, but only for lsat prep. That way you can get into a routine and stick with it easier. Start off with drilliing question types, then go to untimed section work, then timed section work, then back to back to back timed section work, then full lenth ( 5 section) prep tests. Review all of your mistakes, and try to get down the main parts of both the question stem and the answer choices. Do every game and passage 3 times. First go for identifying the main parts, then go to answer teh questions correctly, then work on speed and accuracy. You can do this for the LR section as well. If you devote a lot of time,, you will be able to hit your ceiling. You may need to take it in October, if you arent where you need to be by June. Either way, this will be your 3rd time, so make it count. Best of luck

P.S While albany places well in albanyny, it doesnt travel far outside taht area. At 45k tuition a year, plus cost of living, its not a wise investment at sticker.

Causticity
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby Causticity » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:31 pm

Don't listen to people to say that you can't go anywhere worth going w/ a 151.

Here's a thought: apply and see where you get in, then decide if that school's a good fit. Maybe your story works or maybe it doesn't, but TLS Forums won't tell you, only adcomms will.

Figure out where you stand for real and then make a more informed decision.

d34d9823
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby d34d9823 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:32 pm

akili wrote:A 151 puts you below average.


Image

03121202698008
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:33 pm

Moral_Midgetry wrote:
lretter wrote:would it not be better to gain admission to schools such as Southwestern, Whittier, etc. and then potentially transfer out?

Is it truly worthless applying at this point, or should I spend the $$ to at least test my luck?


Transferring is a lot more difficult than you might think. You need to be top 25% of your class or so which is difficult, even at bad schools.


Especially if you are bad at timed exams. I found the time pressure worse on finals than the LSAT.

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northwood
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby northwood » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:33 pm

Causticity wrote:Don't listen to people to say that you can't go anywhere worth going w/ a 151.

Here's a thought: apply and see where you get in, then decide if that school's a good fit. Maybe your story works or maybe it doesn't, but TLS Forums won't tell you, only adcomms will.

Figure out where you stand for real and then make a more informed decision.


Yes, he can get into some schools, and possibly in thea region he wants to work in, but at sticker price- its not really a smart investment. If he were to increase his score by 6 points or more, he would be in much better shape. Especially if he were to apply super early next cycle ( september- october)

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akili
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby akili » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:34 pm

Causticity wrote:Don't listen to people to say that you can't go anywhere worth going w/ a 151.

Here's a thought: apply and see where you get in, then decide if that school's a good fit. Maybe your story works or maybe it doesn't, but TLS Forums won't tell you, only adcomms will.

Figure out where you stand for real and then make a more informed decision.


Here's the thing, a lot of people think law school is the ticket to financial security. With a 151 schools that will accept them will most likely not be offering scholarship money. He/she would come out in debt with very very limited job prospects. People in the top 25% at Berkeley aren't getting offers. It's scary out there. If he/she chooses to take the risk, it's up to them but the financial ramifications are serious and real...

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akili
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby akili » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:35 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
akili wrote:A 151 puts you below average.


Image


http://www.alpha-score.com/resources/ls ... onversion/
A 151 is in the 48th percentile

It is about average though. My bad.

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northwood
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby northwood » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:37 pm

48th percentils is below average.

OP: focus on your retake and dominate it. A few more points and with your story, im sure you will be able to swing a nice scholarship somewhere

lretter
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Re: 3.47 and 151

Postby lretter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:44 pm

I plan on applying at least to some schools with reasonable admission prospects and maybe deciding from there... if 150,000 in debt is my only option, then I guess the only option left is to retake.

Am I correct in my understanding that admission is possible, but scholarship unlikely?




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