ED at Columbia and UPenn - Extreme splitter Forum

[09042014]

i'm pretty sure UVA has a quite distinct cutoff at 3.0 for extreme splitters - anything below that hurts their GPA medians too much to make even a 179 worth it - and you are considerably below that at 2.8. barring a miracle, i'd say no way for any of them.

actually, i agree with one above poster to get some meaningful work experience in and try NU if you are set on going to a top school

I heavily disagree. He can get in T-14 with his LSAT. Michigan and Cornell will let him in before UVA does. Splitters are hard to predict, but he has a shot.

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

You're right. You do!

To say that OP can't get in any T-14 is absurd.

You know more than law school predictor that's actually based on real data...

1) Yes I do. I got my way into a t14 with a 2.8 I know what the fuck I'm talking about.

2) OP's chances at a t14 aren't great. And he is almost certainly out at Cornell.

His best chances is Georgetown, unless he gets some work experience. With work experience his best shot is northwestern.

3) Law school predictor is NOT based on real data it is based on using index numbers the schools have. It works well near the medians, but doesn't work very well at all at the extremes. 2.8/179 is an extreme split.

You are doing this guy no favors telling him things you don't fucking understand.

He needs to take another year off, work, then ED to Northwestern. It's really his only decent shot. He could try Michigan because they like splitters with hard majors, but they seem to pretty much have a 3.1 gpa floor.

[Miracle]

Desert Fox,

Look at your behavior. What makes you think you're worth me engaging myself in a conversation with you.

P.S. I am a splitter, and managed to get in T-14, and do not need you to school me on anything.

[09042014]

Desert Fox,

Look at your behavior. What makes you think you're worth me engaging myself in a conversation with you.

P.S. I am a splitter, and managed to get in T-14, and do not need you to school me on anything.

Don't be a bitch. Admit you were. Trying to claim you are too good to respond to me after I just pwnd you makes you a bottom bitch.

[well-hello-there]

Desert Fox,

Look at your behavior. What makes you think you're worth me engaging myself in a conversation with you.

P.S. I am a splitter, and managed to get in T-14, and do not need you to school me on anything.

Don't be a bitch. Admit you were. Trying to claim you are too good to respond to me after I just pwnd you makes you a bottom bitch.

i learned from a 50 cent song that the bottom bitch is actually somewhat of a respectable title. (as respectable as you can get if you're a ho who's got a pimp) The bottom bitch is at the top of the food chain amongst a pimp's ho's. She keeps all the other ho bitches in line.

edit: this info was also corroborated on a particular "the shield" episode....so it must be true.

[Miracle]

Desert Fox,

Look at your behavior. What makes you think you're worth me engaging myself in a conversation with you.

P.S. I am a splitter, and managed to get in T-14, and do not need you to school me on anything.

Don't be a bitch. Admit you were. Trying to claim you are too good to respond to me after I just pwnd you makes you a bottom bitch.

In whose eyes? Your own? Seriously.

You cited curtain schools as supportive evidence of your "point of view", and I managed to get in those schools with lower LSAT than OP's which weakens your argument. If you were such an expert on splitters you should of known that with splitters it comes down to the individual application.

There are plenty applicants from TLS whom I interacted with, and received advice because they managed to get in Michigan with 2.9-173 lsat, 2.9-172 Georgetown, and 2.8-174 Georgetown, to name a few. OP's LSAT is nearly perfect, and way higher than most of the splitters mentioned so to say that he has slim chance of getting in any T-14 without taking look at the rest of the components that make up his application is absurd and therefore pointless to discuss.

[uci2013]

i'm pretty sure UVA has a quite distinct cutoff at 3.0 for extreme splitters - anything below that hurts their GPA medians too much to make even a 179 worth it - and you are considerably below that at 2.8. barring a miracle, i'd say no way for any of them.

That makes no sense. The actual GPA makes no difference in evaluating the median. Whatever the median is, half the students fall below minus one, and half the students fall above minus one. There is no difference between a 2.6, a 2.8 a 3.0 or a 3.2 if they are all below the median as far as the median goes.

It will be harder to convince a school to accept you with a 2.8, but a 179 is an amazing LSAT and if you have a good addendum about why your GPA is low and your application has other strengths it might make up for the GPA

[paulinaporizkova]

i'm pretty sure UVA has a quite distinct cutoff at 3.0 for extreme splitters - anything below that hurts their GPA medians too much to make even a 179 worth it - and you are considerably below that at 2.8. barring a miracle, i'd say no way for any of them.

That makes no sense. The actual GPA makes no difference in evaluating the median. Whatever the median is, half the students fall below minus one, and half the students fall above minus one. There is no difference between a 2.6, a 2.8 a 3.0 or a 3.2 if they are all below the median as far as the median goes.

It will be harder to convince a school to accept you with a 2.8, but a 179 is an amazing LSAT and if you have a good addendum about why your GPA is low and your application has other strengths it might make up for the GPA

ok, what i was saying was that if you research heavily on LSN, there are NOT a lot of (almost no//no?) splitters that got into UVA with a sub-3.0 gpa. i realize this argument is flawed however because there probably are verrry few sub-3 GPA/high 170s LSAT candidates out there applying. so yes, as i said before, i concede this terribly made point.

[Miracle]

i'm pretty sure UVA has a quite distinct cutoff at 3.0 for extreme splitters - anything below that hurts their GPA medians too much to make even a 179 worth it - and you are considerably below that at 2.8. barring a miracle, i'd say no way for any of them.

That makes no sense. The actual GPA makes no difference in evaluating the median. Whatever the median is, half the students fall below minus one, and half the students fall above minus one. There is no difference between a 2.6, a 2.8 a 3.0 or a 3.2 if they are all below the median as far as the median goes.

It will be harder to convince a school to accept you with a 2.8, but a 179 is an amazing LSAT and if you have a good addendum about why your GPA is low and your application has other strengths it might make up for the GPA

ok, what i was saying was that if you research heavily on LSN, there are NOT a lot of (almost no//no?) splitters that got into UVA with a sub-3.0 gpa. i realize this argument is flawed however because there probably are verrry few sub-3 GPA/high 170s LSAT candidates out there applying. so yes, as i said before, i concede this terribly made point.

I like you because its easy to have a conversation with you-from what your posts have indicated.

Thats a great post. There aren't that many splitters out there, and therefore is hard to draw a concise arguments based on data. When I spoke with admissions they told me it will come down to an individual application. I had good reasons for my GPA, and managed to get in T-14. My LSAT was higher than their 75th percentile, and I gave them no reason to believe that I couldn't handle academics which resulted in acceptances.

[Holly Golightly]

Thats a great post. There aren't that many splitters out there, and therefore is hard to draw a concise arguments based on data. When I spoke with admissions they told me it will come down to an individual application. I had good reasons for my GPA, and managed to get in T-14. My LSAT was higher than their 75th percentile, and I gave them no reason to believe that I couldn't handle academics which resulted in acceptances.

But regardless of what LSN or LSP say, there are some schools that are splitter-friendly and some that aren't. NU (with work experience) and GULC are the T14 schools that are generally most willing to look past a shitty GPA. Penn, UVA, etc...not so much.

[paulinaporizkova]

i'm pretty sure UVA has a quite distinct cutoff at 3.0 for extreme splitters - anything below that hurts their GPA medians too much to make even a 179 worth it - and you are considerably below that at 2.8. barring a miracle, i'd say no way for any of them.

That makes no sense. The actual GPA makes no difference in evaluating the median. Whatever the median is, half the students fall below minus one, and half the students fall above minus one. There is no difference between a 2.6, a 2.8 a 3.0 or a 3.2 if they are all below the median as far as the median goes.

It will be harder to convince a school to accept you with a 2.8, but a 179 is an amazing LSAT and if you have a good addendum about why your GPA is low and your application has other strengths it might make up for the GPA

ok, what i was saying was that if you research heavily on LSN, there are NOT a lot of (almost no//no?) splitters that got into UVA with a sub-3.0 gpa. i realize this argument is flawed however because there probably are verrry few sub-3 GPA/high 170s LSAT candidates out there applying. so yes, as i said before, i concede this terribly made point.

I like you because its easy to have a conversation with you-from what your posts have indicated.

Thats a great post. There aren't that many splitters out there, and therefore is hard to draw a concise arguments based on data. When I spoke with admissions they told me it will come down to an individual application. I had good reasons for my GPA, and managed to get in T-14. My LSAT was higher than their 75th percentile, and I gave them no reason to believe that I couldn't handle academics which resulted in acceptances.

Aw, that's so sweet. Thanks so much I guess I just have to accept the fact that I'm learning about this whole process as I spend more and more time on this site. This is kind of ironic, as I applied to most of my schools before ever having visited TLS. I posted some original incorrect information, but only upon being called out on it did I realize that there were some gaping holes in that argument. One of the best ways to learn is to say dumb shit and then get corrected by random internetz users. If only all contentions in life could be so non-confrontational

[Miracle]

Thats a great post. There aren't that many splitters out there, and therefore is hard to draw a concise arguments based on data. When I spoke with admissions they told me it will come down to an individual application. I had good reasons for my GPA, and managed to get in T-14. My LSAT was higher than their 75th percentile, and I gave them no reason to believe that I couldn't handle academics which resulted in acceptances.

But regardless of what LSN or LSP say, there are some schools that are splitter-friendly and some that aren't. NU (with work experience) and GULC are the T14 schools that are generally most willing to look past a shitty GPA. Penn, UVA, etc...not so much.

Understandable. My LSAT was 170+, GPA 2.9, and I managed to get in Cornell, G-town, Michigan, and Northeastern. I didn't apply to UVA of Penn, and was not vouching for those schools.

[paulinaporizkova]

Thats a great post. There aren't that many splitters out there, and therefore is hard to draw a concise arguments based on data. When I spoke with admissions they told me it will come down to an individual application. I had good reasons for my GPA, and managed to get in T-14. My LSAT was higher than their 75th percentile, and I gave them no reason to believe that I couldn't handle academics which resulted in acceptances.

But regardless of what LSN or LSP say, there are some schools that are splitter-friendly and some that aren't. NU (with work experience) and GULC are the T14 schools that are generally most willing to look past a shitty GPA. Penn, UVA, etc...not so much.

Yes, from what I've seen (with UVA anyway - since I got accepted and I fall into the category of "semi-reverse splitter") some schools are more GPA whorish and some schools are more LSAT whorish. I believe someone posted something a while back on which schools were more LSAT-based than others? I think Michigan was at the top of the LSAT-leaning list. (I'd like to think that's why I didn't get in..... )

maybe i should say that some schools are more LSAT whorish and some schools are less LSAT whorish instead...cuz let's face it, we're all complete prostitutes when it comes to the LSAT

[ArchRoark]

NU ED, they count WE up until matriculation. So if you just continue to work full-time, you should have a decent shot. UVA ED at the beginning of the cycle wouldn't be a bad choice... and you will have some shot at GULC/Cornell.

[Miracle]

Check out "gyrohero" 2.8 GPA, 171 LSAT (current cycle) Applied to Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern etc.

Also "tallguy" 2.85 GPA, 172 LSAT (current cycle) Applied to Columbia, Duke, Northwestern, Michigan etc.

[edgarfigaro]

Check out "gyrohero" 2.8 GPA, 171 LSAT (current cycle) Applied to Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern etc.

Also "tallguy" 2.85 GPA, 172 LSAT (current cycle) Applied to Columbia, Duke, Northwestern, Michigan etc.

speaking on my behalf, I have zero expectations of getting t-14...just applied due to fee waivers/having WE for northwestern/pre law dean asked me to.

[seriously????]

this example is an extreme splitter...there is a massive difference between a 170-173 and a 179. I'm sorry but if admissions people actually understand the LSAT, a score of 179,180 is true genius. How many people get these scores, and of those people how many get gobbled up by HYS? Several have to bite. But again, there is a huge difference where someone got one or two more correct answers on the LSAT than the 75th%, and a guy who would have the highest LSAT score out of the entire class.

[bk1]

this example is an extreme splitter...there is a massive difference between a 170-173 and a 179. I'm sorry but if admissions people actually understand the LSAT, a score of 179,180 is true genius. How many people get these scores, and of those people how many get gobbled up by HYS? Several have to bite. But again, there is a huge difference where someone got one or two more correct answers on the LSAT than the 75th%, and a guy who would have the highest LSAT score out of the entire class.

True genius... my only response is "seriously????"

Do you understand how medians work as well as the desire of many schools not to admit people with sub-3.0 GPAs?

[well-hello-there]

this example is an extreme splitter...there is a massive difference between a 170-173 and a 179. I'm sorry but if admissions people actually understand the LSAT, a score of 179,180 is true genius. How many people get these scores, and of those people how many get gobbled up by HYS? Several have to bite. But again, there is a huge difference where someone got one or two more correct answers on the LSAT than the 75th%, and a guy who would have the highest LSAT score out of the entire class.

The ability to score 179/180 on the LSAT is NOT sufficient to prove true genius. While in many (maybe the majority of) cases those people are true genius's, there are many other of these type of people who are complete idiots in many other aspects of life and may be lazy as hell to boot.

If the OP has a strong upward trend in grades and the potential law school isn't a complete numbers whore, then I would hope that they would seriously consider OP despite the effect it will have on GPA stats.....but maybe I'm just being naive.

[seriously????]

True, I guess I mean they were geniuses in the one instance when they got those scores. It does not make them a genius at anything else. What's this guys GPA? His score is 7-8 points higher than most T14 75%. GIve him .1 or .125 for each point on the LSAT is higher than 75th percentile, his GPA has to be in range, no?
And I do sense a little hostility with regards to splitters on this site.

[09042014]

True, I guess I mean they were geniuses in the one instance when they got those scores. It does not make them a genius at anything else. What's this guys GPA? His score is 7-8 points higher than most T14 75%. GIve him .1 or .125 for each point on the LSAT is higher than 75th percentile, his GPA has to be in range, no?
And I do sense a little hostility with regards to splitters on this site.

TLS loves splitters. We infest the board.

That LSAT to GPA conversion you got going on there has no basis in reality. There are only T14 that takes non URMs who have below a 3.0. Georgetown part time, and Northwestern.

There might be some exception, but this guy probably won't be the one.

[Miracle]

True, I guess I mean they were geniuses in the one instance when they got those scores. It does not make them a genius at anything else. What's this guys GPA? His score is 7-8 points higher than most T14 75%. GIve him .1 or .125 for each point on the LSAT is higher than 75th percentile, his GPA has to be in range, no?
And I do sense a little hostility with regards to splitters on this site.

TLS loves splitters. We infest the board.

That LSAT to GPA conversion you got going on there has no basis in reality. There are only T14 that takes non URMs who have below a 3.0. Georgetown part time, and Northwestern.

There might be some exception, but this guy probably won't be the one.

Now, you just like to have it your way? Don't you?

How would you know he's not going to be an exception?

In my opinion 179-2.8, is better than 3.07-172.

And, didn't you say UVA loves splitters?

[sojasoph]

True, I guess I mean they were geniuses in the one instance when they got those scores. It does not make them a genius at anything else. What's this guys GPA? His score is 7-8 points higher than most T14 75%. GIve him .1 or .125 for each point on the LSAT is higher than 75th percentile, his GPA has to be in range, no?
And I do sense a little hostility with regards to splitters on this site.

seriously???

[sojasoph]

True, I guess I mean they were geniuses in the one instance when they got those scores. It does not make them a genius at anything else. What's this guys GPA? His score is 7-8 points higher than most T14 75%. GIve him .1 or .125 for each point on the LSAT is higher than 75th percentile, his GPA has to be in range, no?
And I do sense a little hostility with regards to splitters on this site.

TLS loves splitters. We infest the board.

That LSAT to GPA conversion you got going on there has no basis in reality. There are only T14 that takes non URMs who have below a 3.0. Georgetown part time, and Northwestern.

There might be some exception, but this guy probably won't be the one.

Now, you just like to have it your way? Don't you?

How would you know he's not going to be an exception?

In my opinion 179-2.8, is better than 3.07-172.

And, didn't you say UVA loves splitters?

DF is playing averages (there are exceptions for everything), and he is right about LSN. I am consider for Yale because of my lsat but yale has not accepted someone with my gpa for years, perhaps forever. They will not be considering me......

I think OP can get a t14 though. C and P are not happening (unless this is on of those few exceptions).

Once you get past a schools 75% the extra points start to matter less.
And 2.x is just ugly.

[bk1]

Now, you just like to have it your way? Don't you?

How would you know he's not going to be an exception?

In my opinion 179-2.8, is better than 3.07-172.

And, didn't you say UVA loves splitters?

MVP would almost always prefer the 3.07/172 to the 2.8/179, that's just how it is. You're not an adcomm so your opinion on this doesn't really matter.

He's unlikely to be the exception is the point. Should he not apply? Well he probably should for the small chance but it isn't something to rely in on the least.

[09042014]

True, I guess I mean they were geniuses in the one instance when they got those scores. It does not make them a genius at anything else. What's this guys GPA? His score is 7-8 points higher than most T14 75%. GIve him .1 or .125 for each point on the LSAT is higher than 75th percentile, his GPA has to be in range, no?
And I do sense a little hostility with regards to splitters on this site.

TLS loves splitters. We infest the board.

That LSAT to GPA conversion you got going on there has no basis in reality. There are only T14 that takes non URMs who have below a 3.0. Georgetown part time, and Northwestern.

There might be some exception, but this guy probably won't be the one.

Now, you just like to have it your way? Don't you?

How would you know he's not going to be an exception?

In my opinion 179-2.8, is better than 3.07-172.

And, didn't you say UVA loves splitters?

UVA loves splitters above 3.0 (if you round to the nearest tenth). Go look at LSN it's clear as day.