LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

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bk1
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Re: LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

Postby bk1 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:53 pm

1. If you people would read the article.

2. OP is dumb for the AA comment. I thought it might have been tongue in cheek but I was wrong.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

Postby LAWLAW09 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:54 pm

flcath wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:
flcath wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:ITT: White person cringes. No commitment to do anything about anything is expressed. Nothing changes.

I brought up the idea of abolishing blind grading, which as a policy is systemically unfair to URMs.




LAWLAW09 wrote:Who's "we"?

White people? Society? Future leaders? Idk, dude, do you go to law school? This type of discussion is not unusual.

LAWLAW09 wrote:"Maybe we should change the world."

AA is changing the world, slowly. This is another opportunity.

LAWLAW09 wrote:Can you find an expressed commitment in there? I can't.

I volunteered at a Food Bank over break. Like 45 hours.

Is this the type of direct action you're looking for?

Would you like me to pitch in by befriending a URM in my class and switching exam numbers with him before our Civ Pro final?



No, I don't go to law school. You are correct, this type of discussion is not unusual, i.e., a problem is discussed in which one fails to recognize how he/she perpetuates the problem, while also failing to mention what he/she is willing to do about the problem.

You volunteering at a food bank for 45 hours is not something that we were discussing. It's not something that I would consider direct action. And, it definitely isn't something that I was looking for.

flcath
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Re: LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

Postby flcath » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:55 pm

cartercl wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:
flcath wrote:
$1.99 wrote:you are suggesting we give them AA in actual exam performance too? where do you draw the line? in admissions you can say stuff like they add diversity or weren't given opportunities, but they are on a level playing field when they get into law school for the most part.

i really hope there is minimal AA in med school because i would not like an URM who had shitty grades doing my heart surgery.

And I'll ask you: where do we draw the line with YOUR thinking? I don't want a such a person operating on me either... or defending me against a murder charge... or managing my life savings... or working for my small business in which I've invested everything...


The idea is that one day AA won't be necessary.



Most minorities don't want (and don't benefit from) an all White legal field. All the evidence seems to suggest that there is a lot of "over-predicting" involved in non-black applicants with high LSATs/GPAs.


This is it. Let's say an AA male was admitted to a law school with a 159 where the LSAT median was 171. If that person ended up with a GPA of 3.0 where the median was like 3.4-3.5, how exactly does the LSAT over-predict their performance when an LSAT of 159 at a school with a median of 171 suggests that the student should have obtained a GPA in the lower quartile?

Is this a serious question? The predictions aren't TLS-style "oh boy, a 159 at UVA?!?! I bet he'll do shitty!"

If the student in your hypo is projected (based off of his LSAT relative to his classmates) to make a 3.08 and makes a 3.01, his LSAT over-predicted his performance.

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arism87
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Re: LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

Postby arism87 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:56 pm

This thread is a train wreck I can't help but watch.

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eaglemuncher
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Re: LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

Postby eaglemuncher » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:58 pm

arism87 wrote:This thread is a train wreck I can't help but watch.


agreed...can't believe its not locked yet

cartercl
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Re: LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

Postby cartercl » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:02 pm

flcath wrote:
Is this a serious question? The predictions aren't TLS-style "oh boy, a 159 at UVA?!?! I bet he'll do shitty!"

If the student in your hypo is projected (based off of his LSAT relative to his classmates) to make a 3.08 and makes a 3.01, his LSAT over-predicted his performance.


Dude... no, you're right. The predictions are based on years of empirical research which suggests that the LSAT has about a .4 correlation to 1L performance. It's almost impossible for someone to predict that a student is going to make a 3.08. However, it is much more possible to predict what quartile that person will end up in their class.

flcath
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Re: LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

Postby flcath » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:03 pm

bk1 wrote:2. OP is dumb for the AA comment. I thought it might have been tongue in cheek but I was wrong.

Read the full OP and decide for yourself.

Also, I can refer positively to AA in grading (a policy which I obviously don't want, since it wouldn't benefit me) since I know it isn't actually going to happen in the immediate future. You probably know libertarians who believe that police forces should be privatized, but still call the cops when their house gets broken into, and rich liberals who believe their taxes should be raised but don't voluntarily send in extra money each year. What I'm doing here is vaguely similar.

flcath
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Re: LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

Postby flcath » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:07 pm

cartercl wrote:
flcath wrote:
Is this a serious question? The predictions aren't TLS-style "oh boy, a 159 at UVA?!?! I bet he'll do shitty!"

If the student in your hypo is projected (based off of his LSAT relative to his classmates) to make a 3.08 and makes a 3.01, his LSAT over-predicted his performance.


Dude... no, you're right. The predictions are based on years of empirical research which suggests that the LSAT has about a .4 correlation to 1L performance. It's almost impossible for someone to predict that a student is going to make a 3.08. However, it is much more possible to predict what quartile that person will end up in their class.

I used the example of the individual student since it's what you started with. But yes, individualized predictions of LS GPA based on LSAT/UGPA will always be poor (regardless of the race of the student). But in aggregate the LSAT is pretty strong; that .4 r^2 value beats out both the SAT for college grades and the MCAT for MS grades (the latter is very low).

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eaglemuncher
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Re: LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

Postby eaglemuncher » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:07 pm

OP, I really question your judgment and motivation behind even starting this thread. Furthermore, I question your motivation behind volunteering for 45 hours at a food bank..law school app? resume?

Either way thank you for your 45 hours of service

you are a clown..

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vanwinkle
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Re: LSAT poor predictor of URM LS grades... it's too kind

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:08 pm





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