Cooley

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Aqualibrium
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Re: Cooley

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:12 pm

I want a Porsche. I believe a Porsche will make me happy in life.

Should I take a 160k loan out to get a Porsche because I think it'll make me happy? Is it objectively a good investment when I know the value of the car isn't nearly that much once I actually have it, and I'll only make 40-60k for the next 5-10 years? Will a bank even give me 160K to do this?

That isn't in really a Cooley question...I think that question implicates almost all law schools. Is this idea that "the law is what makes me happy" enough to offset the reality that you'll be paying for it for a long time to come? Tell me the difference between wanting to buy a Porsche because it makes you happy and wanting to buy a 160k law degree from a t1/2/3/4 because it makes you happy.

I'm seriously curious. I keep seeing these "if it's really what you want to do and it'll make you happy" arguments, but as adults, don't we consciously avoid doing things that we think will make us happy because the cost/risk is too great?
Last edited by Aqualibrium on Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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androstan
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Re: Cooley

Postby androstan » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:13 pm

Yeah, it's almost certainly stipulated:

--LinkRemoved--

Of course they don't mention any stipulations. But they'd be on crack if they handed out strings-free nearly full to full rides just because someone mustered a 160+.

Tuition: 33k
Living: 14.5k
Eternal ridicule: Priceless

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androstan
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Re: Cooley

Postby androstan » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:15 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:I want a Porsche. I believe a Porsche will make me happy in life.

Should I take a 160k loan out to get a Porsche because I think it'll make me happy? Is it objectively a good investment when I know the value of the car isn't nearly that much, and I'll only make 40-60k for the next 5-10 years? Will a bank even give me 160K to do this?

That isn't in really a Cooley question...I think that question implicates almost all law schools. Is this idea that "the law is what makes me happy" enough to offset the reality that you'll be paying for it for a long time to come? Tell me the difference between wanting to buy a Porsche because it makes you happy and wanting to buy a 160k law degree from a t1/2/3/4 because it makes you happy.

I'm seriously curious. I keep seeing these "if it's really what you want to do and it'll make you happy" arguments, but as adults, don't we consciously avoid doing things that we think will make us happy because the cost/risk is too great?


The difference: law school probably will not make you happy.

A porsche, probably will for a while.

sethc
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Re: Cooley

Postby sethc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:17 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:I want a Porsche. I believe a Porsche will make me happy in life.

Should I take a 160k loan out to get a Porsche because I think it'll make me happy? Is it objectively a good investment when I know the value of the car isn't nearly that much, and I'll only make 40-60k for the next 5-10 years? Will a bank even give me 160K to do this?

That isn't in really a Cooley question...I think that question implicates almost all law schools. Is this idea that "the law is what makes me happy" enough to offset the reality that you'll be paying for it for a long time to come? Tell me the difference between wanting to buy a Porsche because it makes you happy and wanting to buy a 160k law degree from a t1/2/3/4 because it makes you happy.



I honestly don't have an answer for you aside from the fact that a Porsche is a car and tuition is, well, tuition. I would certainly insist that the value of a J.D. doesn't depreciate like a Porsche (or any car) does after 1 use.. I understand your analogy totally, but my dad was a car dealer lol so I know how delicate the value of a given car can and/or cannot be worth.

That said, I get your point. I just really have no reason to lie on TLS (hopefully, anyway) and that's seriously how I feel about it. I'm not even saying it's a smart or wise move - financial or otherwise. I've just put some DEEEEEP thought into myself the last month, and I think a large part of that is thanks to law school. Not saying I couldn't achieve the same thing outside of law school - that's just honestly my own, personal explanation of why I "took the gamble", so to speak. I'll pay my loans off some day, no question about that.. when? No clue. I'll make sure my family comes before me, though.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Cooley

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:22 pm

sethc wrote:I would certainly insist that the value of a J.D. doesn't depreciate like a Porsche (or any car) does after 1 use..


http://abovethelaw.com/2010/03/the-resa ... aw-degree/

Enjoy.

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dr123
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Re: Cooley

Postby dr123 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:50 pm

.
Last edited by dr123 on Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

sethc
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Re: Cooley

Postby sethc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:54 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
sethc wrote:I would certainly insist that the value of a J.D. doesn't depreciate like a Porsche (or any car) does after 1 use..


http://abovethelaw.com/2010/03/the-resa ... aw-degree/

Enjoy.



Yeah I've read that before (I think). It's a good rood and no doubt a great overall outlook on the current state of affairs with respect to legal jobs. I just take it like all other advice: with a grain of salt. Not downplaying what the author (or you) knows or anything, it's just that I'm happy with my decision. That's certainly subject to change, but I'm fine with waiting until then.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Cooley

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:00 pm

sethc wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
sethc wrote:I would certainly insist that the value of a J.D. doesn't depreciate like a Porsche (or any car) does after 1 use..


http://abovethelaw.com/2010/03/the-resa ... aw-degree/

Enjoy.



Yeah I've read that before (I think). It's a good rood and no doubt a great overall outlook on the current state of affairs with respect to legal jobs. I just take it like all other advice: with a grain of salt. Not downplaying what the author (or you) knows or anything, it's just that I'm happy with my decision. That's certainly subject to change, but I'm fine with waiting until then.



Are you attending Cooley seth? I'm not asking as a point of ridicule. Just genuinely curious.

serdog
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Re: Cooley

Postby serdog » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:57 pm

T6Hopeful wrote:
serdog wrote:you need a lest 143 for full time but part time you only need and index of 91 which would be a min of 127 with a 4.33 if you pick restricted part time you would need a 123 with a GPA of 4.33 so 123 is the floor at Cooley
--LinkRemoved--

...If you have a 4.33 or anywhere above a 3.0 for that matter, you should realize that applying after only scoring anywhere near a 143 is a terrible investment in your future. At that point, unless you're absolutely hellbent on being a lawyer, it's not worth the time or the money, since that 3.0+ out of UG will probably net you the same or even better career prospects, without wasting three years or enjoying suffocating debt. I'm just being realistic. (By the way, this is not meant to be an attack on you serdog... I know that you were just responding to the original question).

no worries I agree that anyone who attends Cooley with a 4.33 or 143 likely should be a lawyer, heck I have a 3.2 out of top Canadian undergrad and make $20,000 more then the average Cooley grad. Yes I did apply to Cooley for S&Gs and to get the number of students rejecting offers up

androstan wrote:
If you can muster a 148 on the LSAT you get a 25% tuition discount... Most kids won't be paying "sticker" at Cooley.

kiss that goodbye if you can't make top 20% so most cooley student will pay after there first year

If you can get into Cooley you can get into Southern fees? 14,800 out of state or $9,200 in state. Even if you hit a 50% discount (once more first unless you hit top 10%) you will still pay less at Southern

sethc
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Re: Cooley

Postby sethc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:18 pm

Depending on the univ/program and other factors, I feel like a good assessment of UGPA and everything associated with that might be a better subjective predictor of projected LS success more than the "objectiveness" of the LSAT. Just my $0.02.. I know most (if not all) disagree, but to each their own.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Cooley

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:24 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:Are you attending Cooley seth? I'm not asking as a point of ridicule. Just genuinely curious.

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TommyK
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Re: Cooley

Postby TommyK » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:26 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:Are you attending Cooley seth? I'm not asking as a point of ridicule. Just genuinely curious.

sethc
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Re: Cooley

Postby sethc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:33 pm

Jeez guys I'm flattered lol.. is there a reason for this? I'm not outright defending Cooley at all - they're alleged "rankings" etc. is beyond ludicrous.. but it's just their attempt to attract students like every other school. They just stretch it a biiiiit too thin lol

I was just defending the notion of accepting the fact that a low-tier school might be your only shot if you're serious about being a lawyer.. and attending one doesn't automatically infer idiocy - though I can see how one would, easily.

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TommyK
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Re: Cooley

Postby TommyK » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:49 pm

sethc wrote:Jeez guys I'm flattered lol.. is there a reason for this? I'm not outright defending Cooley at all - they're alleged "rankings" etc. is beyond ludicrous.. but it's just their attempt to attract students like every other school. They just stretch it a biiiiit too thin lol

I was just defending the notion of accepting the fact that a low-tier school might be your only shot if you're serious about being a lawyer.. and attending one doesn't automatically infer imply idiocy - though I can see how one would, easily.


Idle curiosity. Not many people are Cooley apologists. so... areya?

I'm not sure people are saying that everybody who attends Cooley is an idiot. I think people are saying that on the whole, it seems like a poor choice.

And for the record, I agree with a broader point that rankings aren't everything, and that there are valid reasons some would choose unranked schools. But perception to a certain degree is reality. And when a school has such a rotten reputation, it becomes questionable attending.

sethc
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Re: Cooley

Postby sethc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:55 pm

TommyK wrote:
sethc wrote:Jeez guys I'm flattered lol.. is there a reason for this? I'm not outright defending Cooley at all - they're alleged "rankings" etc. is beyond ludicrous.. but it's just their attempt to attract students like every other school. They just stretch it a biiiiit too thin lol

I was just defending the notion of accepting the fact that a low-tier school might be your only shot if you're serious about being a lawyer.. and attending one doesn't automatically infer imply idiocy - though I can see how one would, easily.


Idle curiosity. Not many people are Cooley apologists. so... areya?

I'm not sure people are saying that everybody who attends Cooley is an idiot. I think people are saying that on the whole, it seems like a poor choice.


Am I? Come on, the surprise is half the fun.. did Pacino tell the truth about the mound-of-coke scene(s) from Scarface? Nope :wink:

Oh and I agree with that. In just about every respect, it most likely IS a poor choice if you have anything better. I didn't get a ton of offers, but I did shoot down Roger Williams pretty quick.. my research indicated it was one of THE worst reputation-wise. I couldn't find hardly a positive thing people had to say about it in comparison to the other schools I investigated. I could be wrong, but meh whatever. I am, however, curious about Valpo. For numerous reasons, I didn't get to look at them as deeply as I wanted to (time, mainly) and so I've always been sorta curious. I didn't like the idea of a super small town, Lutheran college notwithstanding.. sounded toooooo much like the area I grew up in for me to spend 3 years of hell in. I imagine the rep is not any better, but marginally if so. I just have a personal teeny soft spot for those law schools that say "Ok, we'll give you a shot.." - gotta love underdogs sometimes, I guess.

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TommyK
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Re: Cooley

Postby TommyK » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:18 pm

sethc wrote:
TommyK wrote:
sethc wrote:Jeez guys I'm flattered lol.. is there a reason for this? I'm not outright defending Cooley at all - they're alleged "rankings" etc. is beyond ludicrous.. but it's just their attempt to attract students like every other school. They just stretch it a biiiiit too thin lol

I was just defending the notion of accepting the fact that a low-tier school might be your only shot if you're serious about being a lawyer.. and attending one doesn't automatically infer imply idiocy - though I can see how one would, easily.


Idle curiosity. Not many people are Cooley apologists. so... areya?

I'm not sure people are saying that everybody who attends Cooley is an idiot. I think people are saying that on the whole, it seems like a poor choice.


Am I? Come on, the surprise is half the fun.. did Pacino tell the truth about the mound-of-coke scene(s) from Scarface? Nope :wink:

Oh and I agree with that. In just about every respect, it most likely IS a poor choice if you have anything better. I didn't get a ton of offers, but I did shoot down Roger Williams pretty quick.. my research indicated it was one of THE worst reputation-wise. I couldn't find hardly a positive thing people had to say about it in comparison to the other schools I investigated. I could be wrong, but meh whatever. I am, however, curious about Valpo. For numerous reasons, I didn't get to look at them as deeply as I wanted to (time, mainly) and so I've always been sorta curious. I didn't like the idea of a super small town, Lutheran college notwithstanding.. sounded toooooo much like the area I grew up in for me to spend 3 years of hell in. I imagine the rep is not any better, but marginally if so. I just have a personal teeny soft spot for those law schools that say "Ok, we'll give you a shot.." - gotta love underdogs sometimes, I guess.


Yeah, most of the anti-Cooley energy on TLS isn't targeted at people already at Cooley. It's to educate people about the disparity in opportunities and reputation between the different eschelons of schools. I imagine most people, like me, wish you the best and hope Cooley works out for you; we just want others to really evaluate their decision.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Cooley

Postby Kilpatrick » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:27 pm

sethc wrote:I'm a 1L (first term) at Cooley.



You guys are lazy researchers :wink:

sethc
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Re: Cooley

Postby sethc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:56 pm

TommyK wrote:Yeah, most of the anti-Cooley energy on TLS isn't targeted at people already at Cooley. It's to educate people about the disparity in opportunities and reputation between the different eschelons of schools. I imagine most people, like me, wish you the best and hope Cooley works out for you; we just want others to really evaluate their decision.


Yeah, it took me awhile to see that, but it's clear now. It's just not so clear to 0L's that have essentially no fucking clue how everything works (could be why I'm at a low-tier? lol) but, yeah, it's just the general "online forum" arena that happens to turn into an overall snarky, mean place.. not to sound like a pussy, but that shit is kind of intimidating when you can't find any other help that seems satisfactory as a 0L. I have NO problem with people critiquing Cooley or any other low-tier school at all, just not the people for deciding to go if, in fact, they really have no other option & retaking the LSAT would be fruitless and even more demoralizing, IMHO. Good call though, I appreciate the way you put that.

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12AngryMen
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Re: Cooley

Postby 12AngryMen » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:15 am

sethc wrote:Jeez guys I'm flattered lol.. is there a reason for this? I'm not outright defending Cooley at all - they're -(their) yup, definitely a Cooley student- alleged "rankings" etc. is beyond ludicrous Image he meant Ludacris, a favorite Cooley music artist, and slang for "awesome".. but it's just their attempt to attract students like every other school. They just stretch it a biiiiit too thin lol

I was just defending the notion of accepting the fact that a low-tier school might be your only shot if you're serious about being a lawyer.. and attending one doesn't automatically infer imply idiocy - though I can see how one would, easily.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Cooley

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:21 am

12AngryMen wrote:
sethc wrote:Jeez guys I'm flattered lol.. is there a reason for this? I'm not outright defending Cooley at all - they're -(their) yup, definitely a Cooley student- alleged "rankings" etc. is beyond ludicrous Image he meant Ludacris, a favorite Cooley music artist, and slang for "awesome".. but it's just their attempt to attract students like every other school. They just stretch it a biiiiit too thin lol

I was just defending the notion of accepting the fact that a low-tier school might be your only shot if you're serious about being a lawyer.. and attending one doesn't automatically infer imply idiocy - though I can see how one would, easily.


uncalled for this was.

dougroberts
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Re: Cooley

Postby dougroberts » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:26 am

nealric wrote:
Fourth, its rankings that it uses is frankly no more bogus than that ranking used by USNWR. Who is to say that Cooley's rankings aren't more valid?


As much as I love the Cooley rankings for the fact that they place my alma matter ahead of Yale, you have got to be kidding. Do you really think that "number of chairs in the library" is a more valid metric than a survey of what judges and lawyers think of the school?


Well, today I could not find any open tables in the library to read until I walked around for about 15 minutes. So yes, number of chairs in the library is CRITICAL at any law school. :wink:

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Drake014
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Re: Cooley

Postby Drake014 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:35 am

12AngryMen wrote:
sethc wrote:Jeez guys I'm flattered lol.. is there a reason for this? I'm not outright defending Cooley at all - they're -(their) yup, definitely a Cooley student- alleged "rankings" etc. is beyond ludicrous Image he meant Ludacris, a favorite Cooley music artist, and slang for "awesome".. but it's just their attempt to attract students like every other school. They just stretch it a biiiiit too thin lol

I was just defending the notion of accepting the fact that a low-tier school might be your only shot if you're serious about being a lawyer.. and attending one doesn't automatically infer imply idiocy - though I can see how one would, easily.


The Ludacris joke coulda been funny but you had to start out being a grammar nazi. totally killed it.

sethc
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Re: Cooley

Postby sethc » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:36 am

Bleh, I need ambient noise/light.. a TV in the background is kind of a security blanket for me. Weird, I know but whatever works I guess. I hate the library.. plus I smoke cigs so packing EVERYTHING up to walk outside for 5min is annoying and a waste of time. Though, yeah, actual room to do shit in a library is important.. the few times I've went that has been one thing that has been a pain in the ass.

However, to above poster.. Ludacris went to Cooley, he did? Well, they must have some kind of upper-hand in the Trial Lawyer shit because, man, have you seen that guy in such cinematic masterpieces like Fast & Furious 2,3,4,5,6,6,7,7,68,78687667??? Also, clearly the man has hoes. In different area codes .. do you?!

sethc
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Re: Cooley

Postby sethc » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:37 am

Drake014 wrote:
12AngryMen wrote:
sethc wrote:Jeez guys I'm flattered lol.. is there a reason for this? I'm not outright defending Cooley at all - they're -(their) yup, definitely a Cooley student- alleged "rankings" etc. is beyond ludicrous Image he meant Ludacris, a favorite Cooley music artist, and slang for "awesome".. but it's just their attempt to attract students like every other school. They just stretch it a biiiiit too thin lol

I was just defending the notion of accepting the fact that a low-tier school might be your only shot if you're serious about being a lawyer.. and attending one doesn't automatically infer imply idiocy - though I can see how one would, easily.


The Ludacris joke coulda been funny but you had to start out being a grammar nazi. totally killed it.


+1

@12AngryMen: Good setup, bad delivery.

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Drake014
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Re: Cooley

Postby Drake014 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:49 am

So I recently got together with a new boardgame group (yeah, I'm cool like that). We're playing Shogun (also called Samurai Swords) and the older gentleman at the table asks us if we go to Berkeley. I say yes. In the ensuing questioning I inform him I'm a law student and he informs me his son is enrolled at Cooley of Michigan.

I hate seeming like I'm a pretentious asshole, but wtf do you say in that instance? Do you respond "that's awesome!" Or do you just sorta sit there with the :| expression hoping something happens to interrupt that awkward moment of silence.

I don't like to lie and I don't like to pretend I'm better than people.




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