Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

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After all of this above, should I leave Ave Maria?

Poll ended at Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:25 pm

1. Yes
80
94%
2. No
5
6%
 
Total votes: 85

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DeeCee
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby DeeCee » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:13 pm

BaronDetroit wrote:I don't know of any disability that launches itself at a person in the middle of a semester


This is exactly what happened to my cousin (all of a sudden, she had problems she didn't know she had). Same with my mother, she was out of work for weeks in the hospital with UC that she never knew she had. I agree that disabilities have to be on file in the beginning, though I'm not sure with this disease that's entirely possible.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:15 pm

BaronDetroit wrote:I don't know how your school does it- but any accomodations for a particuliar disability need to be made at the very beginning of the semester. There should certainly be no surprises arising. Why didn't you clear this up earlier? I don't know of any disability that launches itself at a person in the middle of a semester or directly after poor exam performance.

My suggestion would be to patch up the grades as best as possible. Do better next semester and then maybe transfer to somewhere you would feel more comfortable.


Where would she transfer to? That's the question.

The last thing a school worth transferring to would want to do is hurt its ranking by accepting somebody who will perform poorly, if looking at the term's grades.

Just bringing this up: Did you get any disability accommodation during the LSAT? Do you have the option of getting it when taking the bar?

If you can't pass the bar, you might as well use your degree with wipe windows with anyways.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:15 pm

DCLaw11 wrote:
BaronDetroit wrote:I don't know of any disability that launches itself at a person in the middle of a semester


This is exactly what happened to my cousin (all of a sudden, she had problems she didn't know she had). Same with my mother, she was out of work for weeks in the hospital with UC that she never knew she had. I agree that disabilities have to be on file in the beginning, though I'm not sure with this disease that's entirely possible.


You'll obviously have a paper-trail if it's a diagnosed issue.

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DeeCee
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby DeeCee » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:16 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
DCLaw11 wrote:
BaronDetroit wrote:I don't know of any disability that launches itself at a person in the middle of a semester


This is exactly what happened to my cousin (all of a sudden, she had problems she didn't know she had). Same with my mother, she was out of work for weeks in the hospital with UC that she never knew she had. I agree that disabilities have to be on file in the beginning, though I'm not sure with this disease that's entirely possible.


You'll obviously have a paper-trail if it's a diagnosed issue.


Exactly. Gorgeouslawgirl, keep your documentation!

gorgeouslawgirl
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby gorgeouslawgirl » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:40 pm

BaronDetroit wrote:I don't know how your school does it- but any accomodations for a particuliar disability need to be made at the very beginning of the semester. There should certainly be no surprises arising. Why didn't you clear this up earlier? I don't know of any disability that launches itself at a person in the middle of a semester or directly after poor exam performance.

My suggestion would be to patch up the grades as best as possible. Do better next semester and then maybe transfer to somewhere you would feel more comfortable.




This issue was addressed in the beginning of the semester to the Dean of Academic Affairs. I had to address this issue TWICE through email, before Fall classes even started. Of course, she eventually remembered and emailed me back. Then, my hometown surgeon and physicians sent documentation, but there was little done to acknowledge it.

Then, I went to an appointment last semester with an area physician who saw that I needed accommodations and I was indeed more ill than I realized. She proposed a whole new level of accommodations, which the school did not want to honor.
My physician was very disgusted and released my records (with my permission) and even wrote a new note.


They "lagged" all last year, and, now, are now trying to be more aggressive in saying that my absences are absolutely not tolerable. It's always something with this school.

gorgeouslawgirl
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby gorgeouslawgirl » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:42 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
BaronDetroit wrote:I don't know how your school does it- but any accomodations for a particuliar disability need to be made at the very beginning of the semester. There should certainly be no surprises arising. Why didn't you clear this up earlier? I don't know of any disability that launches itself at a person in the middle of a semester or directly after poor exam performance.

My suggestion would be to patch up the grades as best as possible. Do better next semester and then maybe transfer to somewhere you would feel more comfortable.


Where would she transfer to? That's the question.

The last thing a school worth transferring to would want to do is hurt its ranking by accepting somebody who will perform poorly, if looking at the term's grades.

Just bringing this up: Did you get any disability accommodation during the LSAT? Do you have the option of getting it when taking the bar?

If you can't pass the bar, you might as well use your degree with wipe windows with anyways.






Yes, I did have accommodations when I took the LSAT and in undergrad.

gorgeouslawgirl
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby gorgeouslawgirl » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:47 pm

gorgeouslawgirl wrote:
BaronDetroit wrote:I don't know how your school does it- but any accomodations for a particuliar disability need to be made at the very beginning of the semester. There should certainly be no surprises arising. Why didn't you clear this up earlier? I don't know of any disability that launches itself at a person in the middle of a semester or directly after poor exam performance.

To BaronDetroit: I'm sorry, but do you have a magic button that says, please appear at this certain date by this certain time or you will be considered dismissed? If so, I need to borrow it for awhile. Baron, the point is life is full of ironies and despair, but it is up for us to address them the best way possible. Regardless, any law student who CANNOT defend his or her rights surely should not be defending anyone else's rights!

Thanks!


This issue was addressed in the beginning of the semester to the Dean of Academic Affairs. I had to address this issue TWICE through email, before Fall classes even started. Of course, she eventually remembered and emailed me back. Then, my hometown surgeon and physicians sent documentation, but there was little done to acknowledge it.

Then, I went to an appointment last semester with an area physician who saw that I needed accommodations and I was indeed more ill than I realized. She proposed a whole new level of accommodations, which the school did not want to honor.
My physician was very disgusted and released my records (with my permission) and even wrote a new note.


They "lagged" all last year, and, now, are now trying to be more aggressive in saying that my absences are absolutely not tolerable. It's always something with this school.

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DeeCee
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby DeeCee » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:51 pm

gorgeouslawgirl wrote:
BaronDetroit wrote:I don't know how your school does it- but any accomodations for a particuliar disability need to be made at the very beginning of the semester. There should certainly be no surprises arising. Why didn't you clear this up earlier? I don't know of any disability that launches itself at a person in the middle of a semester or directly after poor exam performance.

My suggestion would be to patch up the grades as best as possible. Do better next semester and then maybe transfer to somewhere you would feel more comfortable.




This issue was addressed in the beginning of the semester to the Dean of Academic Affairs. I had to address this issue TWICE through email, before Fall classes even started. Of course, she eventually remembered and emailed me back. Then, my hometown surgeon and physicians sent documentation, but there was little done to acknowledge it.

Then, I went to an appointment last semester with an area physician who saw that I needed accommodations and I was indeed more ill than I realized. She proposed a whole new level of accommodations, which the school did not want to honor.
My physician was very disgusted and released my records (with my permission) and even wrote a new note.


They "lagged" all last year, and, now, are now trying to be more aggressive in saying that my absences are absolutely not tolerable. It's always something with this school.


If this is all true, you should demand action from the school, due to their non-compliance with the Americans with Disabilities act

BaronDetroit
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby BaronDetroit » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:11 pm

Why did the absences arise? We have a strict attendance policy at my school. If you miss a certain number of classes- your grade gets busted down. After a lot of absences your grade becomes a 0. You should certainly have a very good reason to explain to get this grade patched up. Attendance of classes is one of the hoops you have to jump thru to become a lawyer.

A first year has plenty of emotional issues and turbulence to deal with that might give rise to hopelessness. You should tough this out and see what your options are at the end of this semester. The 2nd semester is much more important than the 1st. You can still get where you want to go at the end of this process.

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DeeCee
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby DeeCee » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:14 pm

BaronDetroit wrote:Why did the absences arise?


You should read about Crohn's/UC/IBD.

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tooswolle
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby tooswolle » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:18 pm

Hmmm sounds like a messed up situation. My advice is to have all of your papers in order demonstrate your illness, documents that prove the law school had knowledge of said illness and refused to provide reasonable accommodations. The key word being reasonable, after that go find a good disability lawyer and file suit against the school. Good luck with your problem.

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arism87
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby arism87 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:29 pm

I don't know much about Crohns. I know enough to understand the absences, I think. But I am wondering what kind of accommodations one gets on the LSAT for this? I'm just curious, this is totally unhelpful for OP, sorry.

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LSATWIZ
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby LSATWIZ » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:14 pm

I am sorry about Crohn's. I didn't know that. You should go high up the ladder as a previous poster said, and don't be threatening by saying they have an obligation to accommodate you. They are the ones in power, and have taken all your power - having poor grades in a TTT or TTTT takes all the power your numbers might have once presented you with, and erases them. However, state your e situation and your fear of being in debt with no job, etc., and they might do what is morally correct whatever that might be.

As per ADD, I know many people who wanted to get tested to get extra accommodations on the LSAT. The basic response psychiatrists tended to give was if you are currently scoring alright timed and successfully completed college, you don't have ADD.

Unless someone is such a genius they can succeed above average with a learning disability, this is probably a fair assessment.

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LSATWIZ
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby LSATWIZ » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:16 pm

tooswolle wrote:Hmmm sounds like a messed up situation. My advice is to have all of your papers in order demonstrate your illness, documents that prove the law school had knowledge of said illness and refused to provide reasonable accommodations. The key word being reasonable, after that go find a good disability lawyer and file suit against the school. Good luck with your problem.

That is going to be a tough suit to win. Also, what law school is going to take a student who previously sued another law school, win or lose.

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tooswolle
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby tooswolle » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:25 pm

I don't think it's pretty difficult to win if she has a history of being disabled and the disabilitiy is one which impairs major life functions and the school had knwoledge of the said disability and could have reasonably accommodated it, they have to under the ADA. As a result of the school not providing the reasonable accomodations the disabled person suffered. I'm a 0L but from what I've seen at my old job (law firm) and other UG law classes I've taken it sounds actionable. Although this may affect the OP in the long term with other law schools I'd take my money back and a settlement including punitive damages and move forward in life because that kind of treatment which the op was subjected to is messed up.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:35 pm

gorgeouslawgirl wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
BaronDetroit wrote:I don't know how your school does it- but any accomodations for a particuliar disability need to be made at the very beginning of the semester. There should certainly be no surprises arising. Why didn't you clear this up earlier? I don't know of any disability that launches itself at a person in the middle of a semester or directly after poor exam performance.

My suggestion would be to patch up the grades as best as possible. Do better next semester and then maybe transfer to somewhere you would feel more comfortable.


Where would she transfer to? That's the question.

The last thing a school worth transferring to would want to do is hurt its ranking by accepting somebody who will perform poorly, if looking at the term's grades.

Just bringing this up: Did you get any disability accommodation during the LSAT? Do you have the option of getting it when taking the bar?

If you can't pass the bar, you might as well use your degree with wipe windows with anyways.






Yes, I did have accommodations when I took the LSAT and in undergrad.


But more importantly I think, you need to know if you'll be provided with accommodations when you graduate and sit for your bar exam.

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DeeCee
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby DeeCee » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:36 pm

I think both LSATWIZ and tooswolle are right. If you pursue this you could very well be left without any law school option, although your pursuit would be reasonable and actionable. I think you should be a hard-ass and demand action and remind them that your claims fall under the ADA, and if they still won't budge and you've exhausted all non-legal avenues, then you could file a suit.

If you ever want to go to a law school besides Ave Maria you'll probably need to try your best to work it out behind closed doors first.

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romothesavior
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:40 pm

DCLaw11 wrote:I think both LSATWIZ and tooswolle are right. If you pursue this you could very well be left without any law school option, although your pursuit would be reasonable and actionable. I think you should be a hard-ass and demand action and remind them that your claims fall under the ADA, and if they still won't budge and you've exhausted all non-legal avenues, then you could file a suit.

If you ever want to go to a law school besides Ave Maria you'll probably need to try your best to work it out behind closed doors first.

Even if OP gets it worked it, staying at Ave Maria is probably a horrible decision. 6 figures of debt to go to one of the absolute worst schools in the country in a horrible geographic market?

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DeeCee
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby DeeCee » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:44 pm

romothesavior wrote:
DCLaw11 wrote:I think both LSATWIZ and tooswolle are right. If you pursue this you could very well be left without any law school option, although your pursuit would be reasonable and actionable. I think you should be a hard-ass and demand action and remind them that your claims fall under the ADA, and if they still won't budge and you've exhausted all non-legal avenues, then you could file a suit.

If you ever want to go to a law school besides Ave Maria you'll probably need to try your best to work it out behind closed doors first.

Even if OP gets it worked it, staying at Ave Maria is probably a horrible decision. 6 figures of debt to go to one of the absolute worst schools in the country in a horrible geographic market?


I agree that I personally would not attend Ave Maria. But if she can get it worked out and get her grades straightened out as a result, then she could potentially transfer later on. Or perhaps, she might want a law degree, she has the means to pay for it, and she wants to be able to finish there. People have many reasons for why they pick certain schools and it's not my place to make that judgment call.

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ahduth
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby ahduth » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:52 pm

DCLaw11 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
DCLaw11 wrote:I think both LSATWIZ and tooswolle are right. If you pursue this you could very well be left without any law school option, although your pursuit would be reasonable and actionable. I think you should be a hard-ass and demand action and remind them that your claims fall under the ADA, and if they still won't budge and you've exhausted all non-legal avenues, then you could file a suit.

If you ever want to go to a law school besides Ave Maria you'll probably need to try your best to work it out behind closed doors first.

Even if OP gets it worked it, staying at Ave Maria is probably a horrible decision. 6 figures of debt to go to one of the absolute worst schools in the country in a horrible geographic market?


I agree that I personally would not attend Ave Maria. But if she can get it worked out and get her grades straightened out as a result, then she could potentially transfer later on. Or perhaps, she might want a law degree, she has the means to pay for it, and she wants to be able to finish there. People have many reasons for why they pick certain schools and it's not my place to make that judgment call.


Please sue them and/or get their accreditation revoked. Those sleazeballs should not be handing out law degrees.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:55 pm

DCLaw11 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
DCLaw11 wrote:I think both LSATWIZ and tooswolle are right. If you pursue this you could very well be left without any law school option, although your pursuit would be reasonable and actionable. I think you should be a hard-ass and demand action and remind them that your claims fall under the ADA, and if they still won't budge and you've exhausted all non-legal avenues, then you could file a suit.

If you ever want to go to a law school besides Ave Maria you'll probably need to try your best to work it out behind closed doors first.

Even if OP gets it worked it, staying at Ave Maria is probably a horrible decision. 6 figures of debt to go to one of the absolute worst schools in the country in a horrible geographic market?


I agree that I personally would not attend Ave Maria. But if she can get it worked out and get her grades straightened out as a result, then she could potentially transfer later on. Or perhaps, she might want a law degree, she has the means to pay for it, and she wants to be able to finish there. People have many reasons for why they pick certain schools and it's not my place to make that judgment call.


TRANSFER TO WHERE....

I can see leaving Ave Maria to UM or Stetson to have a VERY small chance of getting something better come graduation -

But the only people I see make this jump are those who are top 10% and with a bombed 1L-1, that's not going to happen. No point in transferring to somewhere like.. Cooley.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:56 pm

ahduth wrote:
DCLaw11 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
DCLaw11 wrote:I think both LSATWIZ and tooswolle are right. If you pursue this you could very well be left without any law school option, although your pursuit would be reasonable and actionable. I think you should be a hard-ass and demand action and remind them that your claims fall under the ADA, and if they still won't budge and you've exhausted all non-legal avenues, then you could file a suit.

If you ever want to go to a law school besides Ave Maria you'll probably need to try your best to work it out behind closed doors first.

Even if OP gets it worked it, staying at Ave Maria is probably a horrible decision. 6 figures of debt to go to one of the absolute worst schools in the country in a horrible geographic market?


I agree that I personally would not attend Ave Maria. But if she can get it worked out and get her grades straightened out as a result, then she could potentially transfer later on. Or perhaps, she might want a law degree, she has the means to pay for it, and she wants to be able to finish there. People have many reasons for why they pick certain schools and it's not my place to make that judgment call.


Please sue them and/or get their accreditation revoked. Those sleazeballs should not be handing out law degrees.


The only way I see them losing their accreditation is if their library burns down by an act of God.

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DeeCee
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby DeeCee » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:58 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
The only way I see them losing their accreditation is if their library burns down by an act of God.


How do places lose their accreditation?

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ResolutePear
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:01 pm

DCLaw11 wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
The only way I see them losing their accreditation is if their library burns down by an act of God.


How do places lose their accreditation?


They don't maintain ABA-standards. For instance, if they don't have a certain amount of books in their library or they don't have certain equipment. I'm pretty sure if they would revoke if they caught any professors teaching law classes without a JD while the school knows about it.

Er, if they knowingly let people work more than a certain amount of hours..

There are a lot of circumstances they can lose it - but it's all gross negligence for the most part.

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DeeCee
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Re: Should I leave Ave Maria School of Law?

Postby DeeCee » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:05 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
DCLaw11 wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
The only way I see them losing their accreditation is if their library burns down by an act of God.


How do places lose their accreditation?


They don't maintain ABA-standards. For instance, if they don't have a certain amount of books in their library or they don't have certain equipment. I'm pretty sure if they would revoke if they caught any professors teaching law classes without a JD while the school knows about it.

Er, if they knowingly let people work more than a certain amount of hours..

There are a lot of circumstances they can lose it - but it's all gross negligence for the most part.


gorgeouslawgirl could threaten to report them to the ABA....wonder if they could lose accreditation if she had enough proof.

Oh, and the library book thing sounds a little ridiculous, being as many things are electronic now. Unless they are counting titles and not physical books.




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