Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

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Aggiegrad2011
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby Aggiegrad2011 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:37 pm

*shrug* The general public still thinks of "doctors and lawyers" when they mention what they hope their children grow up to be. Attorneys will probably be forever associated with wealth, power, and status by lay people no matter how many Cooley grads get churned out.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:38 pm

Aggiegrad2011 wrote:*shrug* The general public still thinks of "doctors and lawyers" when they mention what they hope their children grow up to be. Attorneys will probably be forever associated with wealth, power, and status by lay people no matter how many Cooley grads get churned out.


Ya, which makes it much worse on those MANY lawyers who end up making 40k and paying off 200k in debt.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:40 pm

Aggiegrad2011 wrote:*shrug* The general public still thinks of "doctors and lawyers" when they mention what they hope their children grow up to be. Attorneys will probably be forever associated with wealth, power, and status by lay people no matter how many Cooley grads get churned out.


You might be right, but I predict this definitely changing with time. As of now, they might be perceived as being in an elite club, but anybody who knows anything about law school in the present probably thinks that's a joke.

BaronDetroit
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby BaronDetroit » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:40 pm

I said this a while ago on here and it still remains true.

My basic premise is that any passing student from any ABA accredited school gets the exact same benefits arising out of a J.D. A graduate from an allegedly prestigious school does not get any plausible entitlement to money.

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romothesavior
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:41 pm

Aggiegrad2011 wrote:*shrug* The general public still thinks of "doctors and lawyers" when they mention what they hope their children grow up to be. Attorneys will probably be forever associated with wealth, power, and status by lay people no matter how many Cooley grads get churned out.

This, more than anything else, is why I believe so many people go to law school.

But for me, I can tell you that this feeling wears off. I used to take pride when people said, "Ooooh law school?" or things like "You're gonna be making all that money some day as a lawyer!" Now I just get annoyed, and wish people had some idea of 1) how freaking easy it is to become a lawyer and 2) how atrocious things are in the legal field.

Is it nice to have social status and respect? Sure. Is it worth being 6 figures in debt and jobless for it? Hell no (at least to me), and I doubt anyone will respect for you when you use that TTT law degree to go wait tables or work at Target.

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romothesavior
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:42 pm

BaronDetroit wrote:I said this a while ago on here and it still remains true.

My basic premise is that any passing student from any ABA accredited school gets the exact same benefits arising out of a J.D. A graduate from an allegedly prestigious school does not get any plausible entitlement to money
.

This is patently retarded. I sure as shit don't get the same benefits from my school as people at Harvard or even Michigan, and a kid at Cooley ain't getting the same benefits as me.

rundoxierun
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby rundoxierun » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:42 pm

BaronDetroit wrote:I said this a while ago on here and it still remains true.

My basic premise is that any passing student from any ABA accredited school gets the exact same benefits arising out of a J.D. A graduate from an allegedly prestigious school does not get any plausible entitlement to money.


translation??

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Patriot1208
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:43 pm

BaronDetroit wrote:I said this a while ago on here and it still remains true.

My basic premise is that any passing student from any ABA accredited school gets the exact same benefits arising out of a J.D. A graduate from an allegedly prestigious school does not get any plausible entitlement to money.


I'm consistently confused by your posts. Are you saying that you don't believe those who graduate from better schools and/or with better grades get higher paying jobs? Or, you don't think that should be the case and all law students should get high paying jobs? Either way, that is pretty stupid.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:43 pm

BaronDetroit wrote:My basic premise is that any passing student from any ABA accredited school gets the exact same benefits arising out of a J.D.


In the sense that any J.D. allows you to sit for the bar? Yeah, I guess in that sense, the exact same benefit is the same. But I don't understand what the hell this has to do with anything.

ptblazer
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby ptblazer » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:44 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
ptblazer wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:3. " Its fair to say that lawyers in these jobs could certainly pay off their debt in a reasonable amount of time." Do you know just how little small law firms pay? Can you imagine trying to pay off $170k in loans from some place like Marquette Law while only making $40k/yr? It has to be living hell.

In general, a Tier 3 or 4 law school might make sense for a very small majority (e.g. people with huge scholarships or something definite lined up for post-grad), but for most, it's an awful idea.


I know nothing about the house you were raised in, but to compare 40k salary with 170k debt to a living hell is just plain ignorant of what a living hell really is.


Considering "a living hell" is a manner of expression, I think we are all ignorant on what "a living hell" really is.


haha, okay

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Helmholtz
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:44 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Aggiegrad2011 wrote:*shrug* The general public still thinks of "doctors and lawyers" when they mention what they hope their children grow up to be. Attorneys will probably be forever associated with wealth, power, and status by lay people no matter how many Cooley grads get churned out.

Is it nice to have social status and respect?


It seems you and I are talking to different people when it comes to who holds respect for lawyers. :lol:

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romothesavior
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:49 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Aggiegrad2011 wrote:*shrug* The general public still thinks of "doctors and lawyers" when they mention what they hope their children grow up to be. Attorneys will probably be forever associated with wealth, power, and status by lay people no matter how many Cooley grads get churned out.

Is it nice to have social status and respect?


It seems you and I are talking to different people when it comes to who holds respect for lawyers. :lol:

Haha okay true, maybe respect was the wrong word to describe what people think of lawyers.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:53 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Aggiegrad2011 wrote:*shrug* The general public still thinks of "doctors and lawyers" when they mention what they hope their children grow up to be. Attorneys will probably be forever associated with wealth, power, and status by lay people no matter how many Cooley grads get churned out.

Is it nice to have social status and respect?


It seems you and I are talking to different people when it comes to who holds respect for lawyers. :lol:

Haha okay true, maybe respect was the wrong word to describe what people think of lawyers.


I was at the casino this past weekend, I guy started talking to me asking me about school and what I was planning on doing after school. After I told him I was thinking about law school, another guy next to us, who hadn't talked at all, immediately said "thank god you still have time to change your mind."

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mpj_3050
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby mpj_3050 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:56 pm

BaronDetroit wrote:I said this a while ago on here and it still remains true.

My basic premise is that any passing student from any ABA accredited school gets the exact same benefits arising out of a J.D. A graduate from an allegedly prestigious school does not get any plausible entitlement to money.


Dude, this is far from the truth. The folks in this forum are lambasting T3/T4 schools for a reason - they don't offer the kind of prospects the elites do and most charge nearly the same price. Look at US News in the T3/T4 and the jar is absolutely stuffed to the brim with private schools that cost no less than 30k in tuition alone. Even a state school like Akron or Toledo at 20k tuition is still extremely expensive to pay sticker at relative to the benefits.

I talked to tkgrrett earlier and was given good information on a school I am looking at and perhaps it makes sense for me to attend with a high-end debt level of 40k. However, most of people are going to take out far more than this to attend schools like Thomas Jefferson, both John Marshall schools, and countless others.

NoJob
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby NoJob » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:02 am

BaronDetroit wrote:I understand the realities of not getting adequate employment to ensure repayment of loans and a lifestyle fit for a lawyer. However, a lawyer is a member of the elitist club. If a lawyer can't harness his intelligent organ of thought and feeling to good use- then that does not bode well for the common folk who attend education institutions to better themselves. In short, all diploma's would be irrelevent and all graduates could become claimants and launch numerous bad faith lawsuits.


No. Your degree will be put to waste doing doc review for 20 dollars an hour until Westlaw gets Pangea3 running and you become unemployed.

BaronDetroit
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby BaronDetroit » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:03 am

Without being overly lawyerly, I'm saying that prestigious institutions fool their students and make them feel special with all these seductive temptations in terms of employment prospects. The job of a lawyer is to find indigent claimants and find deep pockets to ensure justice.

NoJob
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby NoJob » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:05 am

"I was at the casino this past weekend, I guy started talking to me asking me about school and what I was planning on doing after school. After I told him I was thinking about law school, another guy next to us, who hadn't talked at all, immediately said "thank god you still have time to change your mind."

You will be amazed at how many random people know how shitty our field is getting.

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romothesavior
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:05 am

BaronDetroit wrote:Without being overly lawyerly, I'm saying that prestigious institutions fool their students and make them feel special with all these seductive temptations in terms of employment prospects. The job of a lawyer is to find indigent claimants and find deep pockets to ensure justice.

If that's what you think it is is, then WTF are you doing on TLS?

--ImageRemoved--

(Picked Ronald because he is the future boss of many TTT doomed posters ITT)

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northwood
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby northwood » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:07 am

what about Wendy Thomas? At least I will be able to get a frosty after a day of work.

NoJob
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby NoJob » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:07 am

BaronDetroit wrote:Without being overly lawyerly, I'm saying that prestigious institutions fool their students and make them feel special with all these seductive temptations in terms of employment prospects. The job of a lawyer is to find indigent claimants and find deep pockets to ensure justice.


The first part of your statement is true.

As to the second, how will you finance those cases? Indigent clients don't have retainers. And, deep pockets can afford to drag litigation out forever.

Aggiegrad2011
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby Aggiegrad2011 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:08 am

northwood wrote:what about Wendy Thomas? At least I will be able to get a frosty after a day of work.


McFlurry > Frosty.

I'm Team Ronald.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:13 am

Aggiegrad2011 wrote:
northwood wrote:what about Wendy Thomas? At least I will be able to get a frosty after a day of work.


McFlurry > Frosty.

I'm Team Ronald.


You bastard.

rundoxierun
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby rundoxierun » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:16 am

NoJob wrote:
BaronDetroit wrote:Without being overly lawyerly, I'm saying that prestigious institutions fool their students and make them feel special with all these seductive temptations in terms of employment prospects. The job of a lawyer is to find indigent claimants and find deep pockets to ensure justice.


The first part of your statement is true.

As to the second, how will you finance those cases? Indigent clients don't have retainers. And, deep pockets can afford to drag litigation out forever.


Believe it or not(probably not b/c I couldnt believe it myself).. there is no "feel special" clause in the enrollment forms for t-14 schools.

ETA: seductive temptations?? WTF?

NoJob
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby NoJob » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:22 am

tkgrrett wrote:
NoJob wrote:
BaronDetroit wrote:Without being overly lawyerly, I'm saying that prestigious institutions fool their students and make them feel special with all these seductive temptations in terms of employment prospects. The job of a lawyer is to find indigent claimants and find deep pockets to ensure justice.


The first part of your statement is true.

As to the second, how will you finance those cases? Indigent clients don't have retainers. And, deep pockets can afford to drag litigation out forever.


Believe it or not(probably not b/c I couldnt believe it myself).. there is no "feel special" clause in the enrollment forms for t-14 schools.

ETA: seductive temptations?? WTF?


I think he was referring to the law schools' alleged rigging of employment stats.

The scambloggers have done excellent work on this and deserve an award.

BaronDetroit
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Re: Actually, a T3 school is not a dead end.

Postby BaronDetroit » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:27 am

Let me start with this and I think we should start with this: Contrary to how most people think in terms of legal education- lawyers sue for money. No matter what allegation it is- lawyers want money and preferably lots of it. Courts favor the little guy- not the guy the Vault Firms represent. So the job of a lawyer is to find little guys who want money.




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