Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

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Randomnumbers
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Randomnumbers » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:58 pm

stugots26 wrote: It took hard work, lots of studying, and dealing with a couple of wild-card professors, but with hard work and determination it's ENTIRELY POSSIBLE to keep a scholarship.


It's entirely possible to win the powerball. In fact, a few people each year do - and for them, buying a powerball ticket was an incredibly good idea. It doesn't necessarily make it a smart thing to do. Congratulations on making it this far. Still doesn't make your decision the bestest decision ever.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby moneybagsphd » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:17 pm

flem wrote:
stugots26 wrote:Okay, I'm back after my first year at John Marshall Chicago, and I wanted to bump up this post after all this time.

I took a risk, took the full ride scholarship with top third stipulation, and guess what? I kept the scholarship. It took hard work, lots of studying, and dealing with a couple of wild-card professors, but with hard work and determination it's ENTIRELY POSSIBLE to keep a scholarship. I know at least six other people (not everyone advertises that he or she is a scholarship student) with the same stipulation this year who have kept their scholarships. Those who may have lost their scholarship fully admit to slacking this semester.

I bought in to the fear about the section-stacking and pay-for-two-years-after-I-can't-keep-my-scholarship disaster scenarios, anecdotes that are shared on this forum about people losing their scholarships - to a point. I'm beginning to think, however, that people will blame and rationalize rather than accepting that they couldn't hack it. In the end, yes, it took a lot of hard work, but it is by no means impossible. The school wants us to graduate debt-free so we aren't forced to choose jobs based on our debt loads. I'm working a patent job for the summer, I'm taking the Patent Bar, and I'll have a bunch of interviews at the Patent Law Interview Program as a result of a combination of the PhD, my resume, and networking.

In short, the disaster scenarios spouted on this thread were the most irresponsible and untrue fear-mongering techniques I've ever seen. Completely ridiculous and contrary to reality. It's like people need to shoot down any route toward a successful law career that isn't at a top school with a crapload of debt.

Stipulations are entirely manageable and reasonable measures of accountability, and as I got closer and closer to keeping the scholarship, the humor of this thread, and those like it, hit me more and more. Well, I've said my piece. Let the flaming begin - but it's going to be kind of difficult to dispute hard evidence of success. I'll check back after a while and I've kept the scholarship for another semester.


I enjoy when someone displays the same sort of understanding of logic that causes them to get an LSAT score that makes them go to schools like this in the first place.

It's astounding that this individual was able to make top third anywhere with such a tenuous grasp of logic.

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beachbum
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby beachbum » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:05 pm

So... attend John Marshall on scholarship because ~2/3 of the class is dumb and/or lazy as shit, and as long as you put in the time to actually learn the law, you won't have any problem out-scoring these neanderthals on exams?

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mattviphky
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby mattviphky » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:33 pm

Everyone says that going to JMLS is a bad idea, and that keeping a scholarship is really hard. But guess what? I went to JMLS, and I worked really hard. I was able to keep my scholarship, because I worked so hard. I'll be a lawyer soon, and you all make it sound like only T-14 students get JDs. Yeah right! Guess i proved you guys wrong. Let the flaming begin! haha, you're all so misguided!

2012JayDee
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby 2012JayDee » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:23 pm

nevermind. just...nfm

bump this up when you graduate and are applying to be a paralegal

abc12345675
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby abc12345675 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:29 pm

I'll buck the TLS trend and congratulate you on a job well done. How much above the 1/3 mark are you? If you get in the top 5% range you could get a nice job

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Ludo!
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Ludo! » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:41 pm

Oh shit, thank you for bumping this epic thread. I had forgotten all about it. Congrats on keeping your scholarship, although no one ever said it would be impossible to keep it. The "fear mongering" is still reality for most of your classmates. I don't think you really know if your risk paid off yet until you have a job, but congrats on at least not losing the scholly.

Your idea that it would be rude to try to negotiate scholarship stipulations with the school still goes down as one of the stupidest things I've ever read on TLS though.

Wahoos
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Wahoos » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:19 pm

......
Last edited by Wahoos on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stugots26
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby stugots26 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:06 pm

This thread *does* continue to be entertaining. That's for sure. After talking to some friends, the figure is up to at least ten people with full rides this year who kept them for next year. So that's already much better odds than the powerball. But keep the blind rationalizations coming. Attack my credibility. It's just so ridiculous.

I love how this is a law school forum, and people chastised me for suggesting that someone not try to negotiate scholarship stipulations. They do still teach Contracts in your law schools, right? Does anyone remember the mirror-image rule? What happens when an offeree attempts to negotiate an offer? Doesn't that constitute a rejection and counter-offer?

You can poke fun at the school all you want, mock my competition, it's easy. But I'm not the one who generalized about the scholarship. I'm the one who proved that the generalization is a faulty presumption by empirical evidence, at least as far as John Marshall is concerned, and that the scholarship-stipulation "scam", whether it exists or not, can be attributed to students attempting to not hold themselves accountable for their own failures.

I'll still be laughing about this when I graduate debt-free and use my networking contacts to land a job in a firm in Chicago where I'm not killing myself to pay off my debt.

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RedBirds2011
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby RedBirds2011 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:10 pm

stugots26 wrote:This thread *does* continue to be entertaining. That's for sure. After talking to some friends, the figure is up to at least ten people with full rides this year who kept them for next year. So that's already much better odds than the powerball. But keep the blind rationalizations coming. Attack my credibility. It's just so ridiculous.

I love how this is a law school forum, and people chastised me for suggesting that someone not try to negotiate scholarship stipulations. They do still teach Contracts in your law schools, right? Does anyone remember the mirror-image rule? What happens when an offeree attempts to negotiate an offer? Doesn't that constitute a rejection and counter-offer?

You can poke fun at the school all you want, mock my competition, it's easy. But I'm not the one who generalized about the scholarship. I'm the one who proved that the generalization is a faulty presumption by empirical evidence, at least as far as John Marshall is concerned, and that the scholarship-stipulation "scam", whether it exists or not, can be attributed to students attempting to not hold themselves accountable for their own failures.

I'll still be laughing about this when I graduate debt-free and use my networking contacts to land a job in a firm in Chicago where I'm not killing myself to pay off my debt.



@your second paragraph:

LolWUT

stugots26
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby stugots26 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:20 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:
The logic here is mind boggling. The school didn't HAVE to offer him anything but they did because they're trying to sucker him into going there! The school is not going to "pull" their offer if he tries to negotiate. And they don't expect him to work for it. They expect that he'll probably lose it after the first year and they'll suck a couple hundred thousand dollars out of him. "Working hard" is not enough to do well in law school. Taking a scholarship at a school like this with that stipulation is a huge risk.


Talk about circular logic.

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Ludo!
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Ludo! » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:15 am

stugots26 wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:
The logic here is mind boggling. The school didn't HAVE to offer him anything but they did because they're trying to sucker him into going there! The school is not going to "pull" their offer if he tries to negotiate. And they don't expect him to work for it. They expect that he'll probably lose it after the first year and they'll suck a couple hundred thousand dollars out of him. "Working hard" is not enough to do well in law school. Taking a scholarship at a school like this with that stipulation is a huge risk.


Talk about circular logic.


Just because you did ok and kept your scholarship doesn't mean its not a huge risk. You're either one of the best flames or one of the stupidest posters ever.

Please tell me more about how your 1l level understanding of contracts applies to negotiating scholarships

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mattviphky
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby mattviphky » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:42 am

stugots26 wrote:This thread *does* continue to be entertaining. That's for sure. After talking to some friends, the figure is up to at least ten people with full rides this year who kept them for next year. So that's already much better odds than the powerball. But keep the blind rationalizations coming. Attack my credibility. It's just so ridiculous.

I love how this is a law school forum, and people chastised me for suggesting that someone not try to negotiate scholarship stipulations. They do still teach Contracts in your law schools, right? Does anyone remember the mirror-image rule? What happens when an offeree attempts to negotiate an offer? Doesn't that constitute a rejection and counter-offer?

You can poke fun at the school all you want, mock my competition, it's easy. But I'm not the one who generalized about the scholarship. I'm the one who proved that the generalization is a faulty presumption by empirical evidence, at least as far as John Marshall is concerned, and that the scholarship-stipulation "scam", whether it exists or not, can be attributed to students attempting to not hold themselves accountable for their own failures.

I'll still be laughing about this when I graduate debt-free and use my networking contacts to land a job in a firm in Chicago where I'm not killing myself to pay off my debt.


you nearly got me. I thought you were so real, but now, I'm kinda glad you're not. Epic flame.

but if you're real: most of the harsh language regarding schools like JMLS is directed at 0Ls who don't know any better, and who don't know to respect the importance of the LSAT. If you do indeed exist, I'm glad you got to keep your scholarship, but don't you have any sympathy for the many young students who are paying full price? This is the future we want hopeful applicants to avoid. If you're going to JMLS for free and you are truly happy with the decision, then good for you. However, we will all continue to razz the school for charging an obscene amount of money for such little pay-off as a way to warn those students who should spend less time applying to TTTTs, and more studying the lsat.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby moneybagsphd » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:32 pm

stugots26 wrote:I love how this is a law school forum, and people chastised me for suggesting that someone not try to negotiate scholarship stipulations. They do still teach Contracts in your law schools, right? Does anyone remember the mirror-image rule? What happens when an offeree attempts to negotiate an offer? Doesn't that constitute a rejection and counter-offer?

Obviously a flame, but...
This is nonsense. You're discouraging prospectives from negotiating scholarship stipulations because JMLS could maybe respond by rescinding their shitty offer. I don't think they would do that, even if they can, because it's not in their self-interest. They offered you the scholarship in the first place as an incentive to attend. Why revoke the only reason you have for attending, and virtually ensure that you withdraw? Even if they can do it, they probably won't.
For the sake of argument, however, let's assume that they do rescind your offer. What have you lost? A full-ride to a TTTT where you scarcely have a chance at ever practicing law. Is that really worse than going, losing your scholly, and paying for a shit school?
Really, if you can't meet those sTTTTips (or more realistically crack top 5-10%) you should probably drop out anyways.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:03 pm

stugots26 wrote:
I love how this is a law school forum, and people chastised me for suggesting that someone not try to negotiate scholarship stipulations. They do still teach Contracts in your law schools, right? Does anyone remember the mirror-image rule? What happens when an offeree attempts to negotiate an offer? Doesn't that constitute a rejection and counter-offer?

Ladies and gentlemen, a John Marshall legal education at work.

rad lulz
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:28 pm

beachbum wrote:So... attend John Marshall on scholarship because ~2/3 of the class is dumb and/or lazy as shit, and as long as you put in the time to actually learn the law, you won't have any problem out-scoring these neanderthals on exams?

I wish I went to a school where 2/3 of the people are lazy idiots. Prhps poaster has the right idea.

stugots26
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby stugots26 » Fri May 17, 2013 3:19 pm

Hey all - bumping up this thread once again. That's right, I'm back.

Someone commented in this thread about sympathy for 0Ls who don't have scholarships. That's true. I do have sympathy for anyone who is misguided enough to enter a law school like JMLS in this economy not headed into patent law and without a full ride scholarship. The school may have a hand in perpetuating the myth of success after law school. However, that wasn't what this thread was about. What this thread, and this whole forum in fact, seems to be about is the old-school philosophy of T14-or-bust, and the vitriolic spite with which posters attack anyone who is successful at graduating a non-T14 without debt, and landiing a legal job, almost comically. You don't have to pay through the nose. You don't have to go to the best law school.

I'm two years down, I've kept my scholarship, I'm in a summer associate position with a prominent law firm, at which you have to *try* to not get a job offer, and which pays well over $100K starting salary. In fact, all of the other people with the same scholarship got similar positions this summer. Yes, even in this economy.

You can go on telling folks to negotiate away scholarship stipulations under the misguided notion that somehow, in this age of entitlement, a school's low rank is an indication of whether it should have the gaul to ask for some type of checks and balances on a very generous offer, or understand that there's risks in everything.

I'll check back in a year after I graduate, pass the bar, and start work, and have a good laugh at all the responses.

Cheers and thank you to all who sincerely congratulated me on my success.

suzige
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby suzige » Fri May 17, 2013 3:34 pm

stugots26 wrote:Hey all - bumping up this thread once again. That's right, I'm back.

Someone commented in this thread about sympathy for 0Ls who don't have scholarships. That's true. I do have sympathy for anyone who is misguided enough to enter a law school like JMLS in this economy not headed into patent law and without a full ride scholarship. The school may have a hand in perpetuating the myth of success after law school. However, that wasn't what this thread was about. What this thread, and this whole forum in fact, seems to be about is the old-school philosophy of T14-or-bust, and the vitriolic spite with which posters attack anyone who is successful at graduating a non-T14 without debt, and landiing a legal job, almost comically. You don't have to pay through the nose. You don't have to go to the best law school.

I'm two years down, I've kept my scholarship, I'm in a summer associate position with a prominent law firm, at which you have to *try* to not get a job offer, and which pays well over $100K starting salary. In fact, all of the other people with the same scholarship got similar positions this summer. Yes, even in this economy.

You can go on telling folks to negotiate away scholarship stipulations under the misguided notion that somehow, in this age of entitlement, a school's low rank is an indication of whether it should have the gaul to ask for some type of checks and balances on a very generous offer, or understand that there's risks in everything.

I'll check back in a year after I graduate, pass the bar, and start work, and have a good laugh at all the responses.

Cheers and thank you to all who sincerely congratulated me on my success.


Congrats. I know someone who also just graduated from JMLS in December/January (whenever it was) and still has no job and neither do any of his friends that attended. He went in for full sticker. I also know someone who is desperate enough just to get into law school that he is probably going to take JMLS at sticker. You, dear sir, are an exception to the JMLS rule that I have come to know quite well unfortunately (the rule being that some are desperate enough to get in somewhere and will go at literally any cost). If you do get the job with that 6 figure salary, I salute u as a beacon of hope for those not headed to the t-14. Good Luck. I hope you do very well and share your experience with others who may be considering JMLS at sticker and not. There needs to be more voices out there so that future 0Ls can make better and more informed decisions.

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Ludo!
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Ludo! » Fri May 17, 2013 3:58 pm

stugots26 wrote:Hey all - bumping up this thread once again. That's right, I'm back.

Someone commented in this thread about sympathy for 0Ls who don't have scholarships. That's true. I do have sympathy for anyone who is misguided enough to enter a law school like JMLS in this economy not headed into patent law and without a full ride scholarship. The school may have a hand in perpetuating the myth of success after law school. However, that wasn't what this thread was about. What this thread, and this whole forum in fact, seems to be about is the old-school philosophy of T14-or-bust, and the vitriolic spite with which posters attack anyone who is successful at graduating a non-T14 without debt, and landiing a legal job, almost comically. You don't have to pay through the nose. You don't have to go to the best law school.

I'm two years down, I've kept my scholarship, I'm in a summer associate position with a prominent law firm, at which you have to *try* to not get a job offer, and which pays well over $100K starting salary. In fact, all of the other people with the same scholarship got similar positions this summer. Yes, even in this economy.

You can go on telling folks to negotiate away scholarship stipulations under the misguided notion that somehow, in this age of entitlement, a school's low rank is an indication of whether it should have the gaul to ask for some type of checks and balances on a very generous offer, or understand that there's risks in everything.

I'll check back in a year after I graduate, pass the bar, and start work, and have a good laugh at all the responses.

Cheers and thank you to all who sincerely congratulated me on my success.


Jesus christ you are a stupid fucking asshole

rad lulz
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby rad lulz » Fri May 17, 2013 4:31 pm

stugots26 wrote:Hey all - bumping up this thread once again. That's right, I'm back.

Someone commented in this thread about sympathy for 0Ls who don't have scholarships. That's true. I do have sympathy for anyone who is misguided enough to enter a law school like JMLS in this economy not headed into patent law and without a full ride scholarship. The school may have a hand in perpetuating the myth of success after law school. However, that wasn't what this thread was about. What this thread, and this whole forum in fact, seems to be about is the old-school philosophy of T14-or-bust, and the vitriolic spite with which posters attack anyone who is successful at graduating a non-T14 without debt, and landiing a legal job, almost comically. You don't have to pay through the nose. You don't have to go to the best law school.

I'm two years down, I've kept my scholarship, I'm in a summer associate position with a prominent law firm, at which you have to *try* to not get a job offer, and which pays well over $100K starting salary. In fact, all of the other people with the same scholarship got similar positions this summer. Yes, even in this economy.

You can go on telling folks to negotiate away scholarship stipulations under the misguided notion that somehow, in this age of entitlement, a school's low rank is an indication of whether it should have the gaul to ask for some type of checks and balances on a very generous offer, or understand that there's risks in everything.

I'll check back in a year after I graduate, pass the bar, and start work, and have a good laugh at all the responses.

Cheers and thank you to all who sincerely congratulated me on my success.

Disclaimer: top 5% outcome

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=johnmarshal-chicago

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bjsesq
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby bjsesq » Fri May 17, 2013 4:32 pm

I just can't get over his pissiness about negotiating scholarships. I negotiated with every school I got accepted to and it saved me money. Rank is irrelevant to that.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Micdiddy » Fri May 17, 2013 6:57 pm

THIS THREAD COMPLETES ME

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Cobretti
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Cobretti » Fri May 17, 2013 6:59 pm

rad lulz wrote:
stugots26 wrote:Hey all - bumping up this thread once again. That's right, I'm back.

Someone commented in this thread about sympathy for 0Ls who don't have scholarships. That's true. I do have sympathy for anyone who is misguided enough to enter a law school like JMLS in this economy not headed into patent law and without a full ride scholarship. The school may have a hand in perpetuating the myth of success after law school. However, that wasn't what this thread was about. What this thread, and this whole forum in fact, seems to be about is the old-school philosophy of T14-or-bust, and the vitriolic spite with which posters attack anyone who is successful at graduating a non-T14 without debt, and landiing a legal job, almost comically. You don't have to pay through the nose. You don't have to go to the best law school.

I'm two years down, I've kept my scholarship, I'm in a summer associate position with a prominent law firm, at which you have to *try* to not get a job offer, and which pays well over $100K starting salary. In fact, all of the other people with the same scholarship got similar positions this summer. Yes, even in this economy.

You can go on telling folks to negotiate away scholarship stipulations under the misguided notion that somehow, in this age of entitlement, a school's low rank is an indication of whether it should have the gaul to ask for some type of checks and balances on a very generous offer, or understand that there's risks in everything.

I'll check back in a year after I graduate, pass the bar, and start work, and have a good laugh at all the responses.

Cheers and thank you to all who sincerely congratulated me on my success.

Disclaimer: top 5% outcome

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=johnmarshal-chicago

249k COA for those #s... :?

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Bronte
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Bronte » Fri May 17, 2013 7:31 pm

Gotta hand it to stugots26 for coming back two years in a row to vindicate himself. But the facts remain. Only 5% of John Marshal grads get a similar outcome according to LST. And, contrary to stugots repeated insistence, many law schools do provide full rides without stipulations, and negotiating scholarships is standard paractice at schools of whatever rank.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Micdiddy » Fri May 17, 2013 8:05 pm

Bronte wrote:Gotta hand it to stugots26 for coming back two years in a row to vindicate himself. But the facts remain. Only 5% of John Marshal grads get a similar outcome according to LST. And, contrary to stugots repeated insistence, many law schools do provide full rides without stipulations, and negotiating scholarships is standard paractice at schools of whatever rank.


Yep. That was by far the most detrimental thing he was spewing. Literally everyone should negotiate, especially to remove stips.




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