Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

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energizer
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Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:57 pm

In at John Marshall. Full ride. T4 or not, its getting very hard to turn down this sort of incentive

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby bjsesq » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:07 pm

energizer wrote:In at John Marshall. Full ride. T4 or not, its getting very hard to turn down this sort of incentive

What other schools have you been accepted at? What are your goals? I'm at another law school in Chicago, so I may be able to help a little. Any stipulations on the scholarship?

energizer
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:29 pm

Yes. Have to stay in top one third. I am eagerly waiting. Waitlisted at W & L In at St Thomas FL $ In at Faulkner$ inat New England. Im still waiting for a bunch considering I got fee waivers.Any insight will be great.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby bjsesq » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:34 pm

energizer wrote:Yes. Have to stay in top one third. I am eagerly waiting. Waitlisted at W & L In at St Thomas FL $ In at Faulkner$ inat New England. Im still waiting for a bunch considering I got fee waivers.Any insight will be great.

Top one third is pretty high. Before we address that, where do you want to practice at, and are you determined to practice in any particular area of law?

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:36 pm

energizer wrote:Yes. Have to stay in top one third. I am eagerly waiting. Waitlisted at W & L In at St Thomas FL $ In at Faulkner$ inat New England. Im still waiting for a bunch considering I got fee waivers.Any insight will be great.


Try to get them to drop that top third requirement before you even consider the offer.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Z3RO » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:37 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
energizer wrote:Yes. Have to stay in top one third. I am eagerly waiting. Waitlisted at W & L In at St Thomas FL $ In at Faulkner$ inat New England. Im still waiting for a bunch considering I got fee waivers.Any insight will be great.


Try to get them to drop that top third requirement before you even consider the offer.

Agreed. A stipulation like that is them saying "you can have the scholly first year only with 33% chance of keeping it next year".

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby gbpackerbacker » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:43 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
energizer wrote:Yes. Have to stay in top one third. I am eagerly waiting. Waitlisted at W & L In at St Thomas FL $ In at Faulkner$ inat New England. Im still waiting for a bunch considering I got fee waivers.Any insight will be great.


Try to get them to drop that top third requirement before you even consider the offer.


+1

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:56 pm

Thanks. How amenable are they to that request for stipulation removal?

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby bjsesq » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:04 pm

energizer wrote:Thanks. How amenable are they to that request for stipulation removal?

Probably not very, but you should try.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:07 pm

ok. thanks. i really would like to know anything regarding the schools rep in chicago

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:08 pm

energizer wrote:ok. thanks. i really would like to know anything regarding the schools rep in chicago


It's regarded to be the worst in the city. But they put out a lot of grads so small firms are filled with them.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby energizer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:57 pm

What do you mean they put out a lot of grads so firms are full of them. Is that a bad thing? then their grads are getting jobs am I correct.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby bjsesq » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:11 pm

energizer wrote:What do you mean they put out a lot of grads so firms are full of them. Is that a bad thing? then their grads are getting jobs am I correct.

Not necessarily. Putting out a shitton of grads year after year means putting a lot of grads in the Chicago area. This doesn't mean a lot, or even a decent, percentage of grads are getting placement into legal jobs. Just make sure you inform yourself about this school, and do some searches through past threads on this site.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby txadv11 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:35 pm

I'm not even going to pretend like I know much about that school...but it would be important to note that:

Illinois has 9 law schools, 6 are in Chicago and 1 more somewhat nearby...
I'd just be worried about that market, unless I was at Chicago, or Illinois-Champaign edit, Northwestern
Last edited by txadv11 on Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby bjsesq » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:45 pm

txadv11 wrote:I'm not even going to pretend like I know much about that school...but it would be important to note that:

Illinois has 9 law schools, 6 are in Chicago and 1 more somewhat nearby...
I'd just be worried about that market, unless I was at Chicago, or Illinois-Champaign

Maybe Northwestern, if you feel like gambling.

stugots26
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby stugots26 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:16 pm

Energizer: I'm interested in Intellectual Property as well. Like you, last Friday I just got offered the full ride at John Marshall, plus $10K a year, with the proviso that I remain in the top third. Did you earn the Markey Distinguished Scholar Program award, as they're calling it?

As I've begun to weigh this decision, I've concerned myself with several factors:

1. In an unsure legal job market, when even the T14 grads aren't guaranteed placement, does it really help to go $150K - $200K into nondischargeable debt? Especially when there are cases of individuals being unable to be accepted into the bar because the debt dings them on integrity.

2. I've begun talking to past such scholarship winners who are all pleased with their experiences at John Marshall and have found work in prestigious firms. I am meeting with the dean tomorrow morning and plan to get a more expansive list. The general consensus seems to be that even in today's questionable job market: even though John Marshall is not a top tier school, the IP focus is taken seriously by local prestigious firms, and the honor of the scholarship will also work largely to my benefit in pursuing work. It will become important to get onto the Review of Intellectual Property Law at the school. I've also looked at profiles of associates and partners at local prestigious firms and John Marshall is all over the place. I will be meeting/speaking with several of these individuals in the coming weeks, but the email responses already suggest they valued their law school experience and don't regret it at all. I'll report back and let you know more about what I find out.

3. My scholarship offers me placement with state and federal judicial externships, among other perks. That externship opportunity is a definite plus.

4. A full-ride offer is not one with which to toy. Don't pick at it. No applicant has a right to dictate the terms of a scholarship to the school and have them remove the top third requirement. Yes, it's a gamble, but have a little confidence. You were likely given the scholarship because the admissions office wants to reel in talent it wouldn't otherwise get and boost its stats, so you'll probably be leading the pack anyway like me if you were good enough to land the scholarship.

So far, though I'm very WARY of the school's OVERALL reputation, the consensus that I'm getting from the forum of past IP graduates with whom I've conferred suggests that while finding the first job might be slightly more difficult, the IP focus more than makes up for the rank of the school.

I fully intend to do more research before the April 15 deadline, and make an informed decision.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby El_Gallo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:23 pm

stugots26 wrote:4. A full-ride offer is not one with which to toy. Don't pick at it. No applicant has a right to dictate the terms of a scholarship to the school and have them remove the top third requirement. Yes, it's a gamble, but have a little confidence. You were likely given the scholarship because the admissions office wants to reel in talent it wouldn't otherwise get and boost its stats, so you'll probably be leading the pack anyway like me if you were good enough to land the scholarship.


Strongly disagree with this.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby stugots26 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:31 pm

Ah...gotta love the ambiguity. Ok, I'll bite - strongly disagree with what, exactly?

A school is entitled to some accountability for offering an investment in a student, without it being an underhanded attempt to make two years of tuition off of playing the odds. If that were the case, more than 1.2% of applicants would receive full tuition scholarships.

If I were to ask for that requirement to be removed, it would effectively be asking, "Can I still have the money even if I possibly screw up my grades?" Let's be realistic - most scholarships involve some sort of expectation of the student's performance.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby bjsesq » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:40 pm

stugots26 wrote:Energizer: I'm interested in Intellectual Property as well. Like you, last Friday I just got offered the full ride at John Marshall, plus $10K a year, with the proviso that I remain in the top third. Did you earn the Markey Distinguished Scholar Program award, as they're calling it?

As I've begun to weigh this decision, I've concerned myself with several factors:

1. In an unsure legal job market, when even the T14 grads aren't guaranteed placement, does it really help to go $150K - $200K into nondischargeable debt? Especially when there are cases of individuals being unable to be accepted into the bar because the debt dings them on integrity.

2. I've begun talking to past such scholarship winners who are all pleased with their experiences at John Marshall and have found work in prestigious firms. I am meeting with the dean tomorrow morning and plan to get a more expansive list. The general consensus seems to be that even in today's questionable job market: even though John Marshall is not a top tier school, the IP focus is taken seriously by local prestigious firms, and the honor of the scholarship will also work largely to my benefit in pursuing work. It will become important to get onto the Review of Intellectual Property Law at the school. I've also looked at profiles of associates and partners at local prestigious firms and John Marshall is all over the place. I will be meeting/speaking with several of these individuals in the coming weeks, but the email responses already suggest they valued their law school experience and don't regret it at all. I'll report back and let you know more about what I find out.

3. My scholarship offers me placement with state and federal judicial externships, among other perks. That externship opportunity is a definite plus.

4. A full-ride offer is not one with which to toy. Don't pick at it. No applicant has a right to dictate the terms of a scholarship to the school and have them remove the top third requirement. Yes, it's a gamble, but have a little confidence. You were likely given the scholarship because the admissions office wants to reel in talent it wouldn't otherwise get and boost its stats, so you'll probably be leading the pack anyway like me if you were good enough to land the scholarship.

So far, though I'm very WARY of the school's OVERALL reputation, the consensus that I'm getting from the forum of past IP graduates with whom I've conferred suggests that while finding the first job might be slightly more difficult, the IP focus more than makes up for the rank of the school.

I fully intend to do more research before the April 15 deadline, and make an informed decision.

What is this, I don't even.

While well written, this post is rife with logical inconsistency and out and out bullshit.

1. If he loses his scholarship he still ends up with substantial amounts of debt from a subpar law school in a market that is hurting. I am not a person who tells people to go to the best school they got at all costs, I chose a lower ranked school with money over a higher ranked one, but your argument is ridiculous. Further, did you just intimate that he might not pass the bar C&F examination simply because of debt? I read that ATL report too, slick. One anecdotal case does create a reason for this person to go to John Marshall.

2. Again, anecdotal evidence from past John Marshall grads does not create a great reason for him to be there. I wonder, did you talk to the ones who got nothing? Probably not. So why should he based his decision on your one sided information?

3. Can't comment on this, but I have no idea how a law school can guarantee an externship to any student.

4. This is by far the most idiotic part of your post. How does a person who has never attended law school know he will do well? He fucking doesn't. You effectively told him to ignore due diligence in attempting to remove a stipulation that could hurt him in the future on the basis that he should be confident. GTFO of here with your bullshit.

Fuck, I never get pissed like this about a stupid forum post. Congrats.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby mpj_3050 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:49 pm

+1 to the above. I hate anecdotal stories, but I will use one anyway. A friend from grade school went to JMLS with a top 1/3 stipulation. Drum roll please...he lost the damn thing and is an gigantic amount of debt (combined UG+LS 200k plus, the LS alone is 80k at least for 2/3L and Chicago living expenses!). Don't play with that top 1/3 stipulation!

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby stugots26 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:54 pm

1. All in all, in a risky job market, if I were to pass on the offer, retake the LSAT, do a lot better, I might get into a top tier school but graduate with tons of debt. Or I could graduate in the same risky market with no debt. Not much of a choice there.

2. If I didn't have a full ride offer, I wouldn't consider John Marshall either. But I did. I mentioned that I was in contact with past winners AND associates in prominent firms, whom I am not sure got any money from the school nor are they profiled as winners of this scholarship. So I'm trying to make an educated guess off of the data available to me. My data so far suggests that the IP focus must be taken into consideration when evaluating the school's place in the Chicago legal job market.

3. The scholarship delineates that I am entitled to such placement. I am sure that the dean will properly expand on this item tomorrow.

4. My edited post stands. The school is entitled to accountability. The only things that remain guarantees in life are death and taxes.

Finally, I may not have attended law school, but it seems as though many of the law students and law school graduates on here can't properly argue their cases without descending into offensive and abusive language. I'm not sure if the previous poster's argument is valid or sound at first reading, but the anger inherent in it suggests both immaturity and lack of control. I have not slandered you personally nor your reasoning, and I would appreciate the same respect.

The top third requirement is a good motivator any day of the week. Do I know I'm going to do well? No, I'm just going to work my ass off seven days a week and take full advantage of this opportunity. Ideally the aim should be for the top twentieth of the class.
Last edited by stugots26 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby bjsesq » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:00 am

stugots26 wrote:1. All in all, in a risky job market, if I were to pass on the offer, retake the LSAT, do a lot better, I might get into a top tier school but graduate with tons of debt. Or I could graduate in the same risky market with no debt. Not much of a choice there.

2. If I didn't have a full ride offer, I wouldn't consider John Marshall either. But I did. I mentioned that I was in contact with past winners AND associates in prominent firms, whom I am not sure got any money from the school nor are they profiled as winners of this scholarship. So I'm trying to make an educated guess off of the data available to me. My data so far suggests that the IP focus must be taken into consideration when evaluating the school's place in the Chicago legal job market.

3. The scholarship delineates that I am entitled to such placement. I am sure that the dean will properly expand on this item tomorrow.

4. My edited post stands. The school is entitled to accountability. The only things that remain guarantees in life are death and taxes.

Finally, I may not have attended law school, but it seems as though many of the law students and law school graduates on here can't properly argue their cases without descending into offensive and abusive language. I'm not sure if the previous poster's argument is valid or sound at first reading, but the anger inherent in it suggests both immaturity and lack of control.

1. Enjoy finding a job, and pray to christ you keep that scholly.

2. PM a poster named Desert Fox about IP and what the market is like for IP kids. Or Rayiner. Both attend law schools in Chicago, both are IP kids.

3. Fair, although I'm confused as to how a law school can promise that.

4. Accountability my ass. It's a blatant attempt to escape its financial commitment to its prospective students. The market does an effective job as is exerting grade pressure on law students.

As to your last statement: this isn't a goddamn appellate brief. You posted bullshit, and I called you on it. I am angry because of how nonsensical it is, and scared that a kid may take your insane statements as a good reason to make a bad decision.

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby mpj_3050 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:02 am

stugots26 wrote:1. All in all, in a risky job market, if I were to pass on the offer, retake the LSAT, do a lot better, I might get into a top tier school but graduate with tons of debt. Or I could graduate in the same risky market with no debt. Not much of a choice there.

2. If I didn't have a full ride offer, I wouldn't consider John Marshall either. But I did. I mentioned that I was in contact with past winners AND associates in prominent firms, whom I am not sure got any money from the school nor are they profiled as winners of this scholarship. So I'm trying to make an educated guess off of the data available to me. My data so far suggests that the IP focus must be taken into consideration when evaluating the school's place in the Chicago legal job market.

3. The scholarship delineates that I am entitled to such placement. I am sure that the dean will properly expand on this item tomorrow.

4. My edited post stands. The school is entitled to accountability. The only things that remain guarantees in life are death and taxes.

Finally, I may not have attended law school, but it seems as though many of the law students and law school graduates on here can't properly argue their cases without descending into offensive and abusive language. I'm not sure if the previous poster's argument is valid or sound at first reading, but the anger inherent in it suggests both immaturity and lack of control.


All I know about Chicago is through a few people I know. However, I do know that JMLS is massively overpriced so failing to maintain a top 1/3 class ranking would leave OP in deep shit. Furthermore, WTF is with the school accountability? They have the audacity to put out outrageous employment statistics which lure people into taking on massive debt burdens. They aren't accountable to anyone right now!

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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby Kilpatrick » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:08 am

Haha did you seriously tell a guy not to try to negotiate a scholarship because it might hurt the school's feelings? You gotta be kidding me.

OP - even if you get the stipulation removed, do research that doesn't involve talking to the school's handful of lucky successful graduates and think long and hard before you decide to attend.

stugots26
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Re: Anyone in at John Marshall Chicago? Any info would be great

Postby stugots26 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:14 am

You know, I would take advice from IP kids in law schools in Chicago, but I'm already taking it from associates working in firms I've long had my eye on. I'd hazard a guess as to which group knows the market better and could better advise me...these are also potential networking opportunities.

If what you're intimating is true of the scholarship, then it's essentially true of any full-tuition scholarship regularly offered by law schools or other graduate schools, or even undergraduate institutions. Since they likely all carry some accountability, they're obviously all ways for the institutions to avoid their financial responsibilities to any such full-tuition scholar. I wonder if you'd be intimating the same thing if a T25 or T14 offered a full-tuition scholarship with the same stipulation. Is there any bias there?

Regardless, the stipulation is part of the terms. I've been rebuked on this forum for not wanting to accept facts. This is part of the package. By advising to change the package, who's not accepting facts as they are?

It's not about the school's feelings. It's about their offer as it stands. They didn't have to offer the OP ANYTHING. They did. And they expect him to work to keep it. If he tries to bargain, they can pull it. It's their offer, not a contract dispute. The statement about the school's audacity and employment statistics may be true. But it doesn't affect the inherent fact that this is the SCHOOL'S OFFER TO MAKE AS IT STANDS or LEAVE IT.

Why would any school allow a student to coast and still give him a full ride? I wager that the bigger risk is attempting to bargain and having the school decide to pull it.
Last edited by stugots26 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:22 am, edited 2 times in total.




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