Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

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Inmilex
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Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby Inmilex » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:49 pm

Just curious, considering the continuing collapse of the legal job market.

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ahduth
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby ahduth » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:50 pm

Inmilex wrote:Just curious, considering the continuing collapse of the legal job market.


Please elaborate on "continuing collapse."

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Adjudicator
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby Adjudicator » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:51 pm

ahduth wrote:
Inmilex wrote:Just curious, considering the continuing collapse of the legal job market.


Please elaborate on "continuing collapse."


This. It definitely did collapse, but at this point I think we are past the nadir. It is beginning to show some signs of life, however minor. It will probably never be what it once was, but it won't be as bad as the past couple of years, either.

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superhands
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby superhands » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:56 pm

I'm not too worried. So what if I become mired in debt and end up with no decent job offers after graduating, “it’s not like they can put me jail” as one recent Thomas Jefferson graduate said.

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Pricer
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby Pricer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:02 pm

It is making me lean toward UGA with money rather than the higher ranked schools I was shooting at.

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Inmilex
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby Inmilex » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:03 pm

ahduth wrote:
Inmilex wrote:Just curious, considering the continuing collapse of the legal job market.


Please elaborate on "continuing collapse."


You could argue that the collapse is complete, and as such cannot continue any longer.

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NorCalBruin
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby NorCalBruin » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:17 pm

This. It definitely did collapse, but at this point I think we are past the nadir


Excellent use of the word "nadir".

09042014
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:18 pm

Adjudicator wrote:
ahduth wrote:
Inmilex wrote:Just curious, considering the continuing collapse of the legal job market.


Please elaborate on "continuing collapse."


This. It definitely did collapse, but at this point I think we are past the nadir. It is beginning to show some signs of life, however minor. It will probably never be what it once was, but it won't be as bad as the past couple of years, either.


It will rebound to mid 2000 levels eventually. But taht still doesn't mean paying sticker at Tulane is a good idea. Law school has always been a bad choice for most law students.

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Inmilex
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby Inmilex » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:25 pm

Desert Fox wrote:It will rebound to mid 2000 levels eventually. But taht still doesn't mean paying sticker at Tulane is a good idea. Law school has always been a bad choice for most law students.


Possibly, but the classes of 2007 through at least 2012 are lost.

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Adjudicator
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby Adjudicator » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:30 pm

NorCalBruin wrote:
This. It definitely did collapse, but at this point I think we are past the nadir


Excellent use of the word "nadir".


Thank you. 8)

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DeeCee
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby DeeCee » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:33 pm

Adjudicator wrote:
NorCalBruin wrote:
This. It definitely did collapse, but at this point I think we are past the nadir


Excellent use of the word "nadir".


Thank you. 8)


LOL I was thinking of this too. Haven't heard such great usage since my remote sensing class.

LSATclincher
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby LSATclincher » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:34 pm

I pretty much share the feeling of the rest above. I still think connections, experience, networking, and extreme hard work will land you a job. I also think firms will bounce back once they figure out the new business aspects of the profession. I'm certainly more realistic about salary vs. debt. My goal is no longer to attend the best school I can get into. It's attending the best school I can get into with the least amount of debt.

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Adjudicator
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby Adjudicator » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:37 pm

DCLaw11 wrote:
Adjudicator wrote:
NorCalBruin wrote:
This. It definitely did collapse, but at this point I think we are past the nadir


Excellent use of the word "nadir".


Thank you. 8)


LOL I was thinking of this too. Haven't heard such great usage since my remote sensing class.


You guys are too kind.

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DeeCee
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby DeeCee » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:41 pm

LSATclincher wrote:My goal is no longer to attend the best school I can get into. It's attending the best school I can get into with the least amount of debt.


+1000. At this point if I don't get enough money (not sure what that amount is, but I'll crunch the numbers in due time), or if I don't get into my in-state school, I'll be forced to retake and reapply next cycle.

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ahduth
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby ahduth » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:30 pm

LSATclincher wrote:I also think firms will bounce back once they figure out the new business aspects of the profession.

My goal is no longer to attend the best school I can get into. It's attending the best school I can get into with the least amount of debt.


I think these two statements may be at odds.

http://www.economist.com/node/17733545

I'm sure this article has been covered off elsewhere, but when we talk about "nadirs" and "continuing collapses" and the like, it's perhaps important to recognize that the legal market itself is not impervious to structural change. The union-esque progression of associates, where promotions and pay are based on hours and seniority rather than value-add, will not necessarily hold true with all firms going forward. As the article cites, DLA Piper is setting up its own internal outsourcing operation - how they plan to manage it remains to be seen. But firms are clearly becoming more open to addressing the market in different ways. Debt can be eliminated, but work experience cannot.

2011Law
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby 2011Law » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:31 pm

Pricer wrote:It is making me lean toward UGA with money rather than the higher ranked schools I was shooting at.


I've also been doing some soul searching in this regard, but in the end I think I'm going to go for the higher ranked school.

d34d9823
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby d34d9823 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:52 pm

ahduth wrote:DLA Piper is setting up its own internal outsourcing operation

Lol DLA Piper

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ahduth
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby ahduth » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:25 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
ahduth wrote:DLA Piper is setting up its own internal outsourcing operation

Lol DLA Piper


Does DLA Piper have a good/bad reputation? I don't know very much about the various firms at all.

The main reason I'm trying to get into a top school is that I want to make sure I'm in control of the process of playing local contracting costs against overseas contracting costs. Legal fees are going to continue to go down in a number of market areas. A partner's ability to deliver local resources versus foreign resources will come to mirror what happens in accountancy. This is very particular to me I suppose, but I decided to go to law school to understand what I need to make this work. The good old days of billing associates out because they have the firm's name on their business card are increasingly over.

rundoxierun
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby rundoxierun » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:26 pm

Inmilex wrote:Just curious, considering the continuing collapse of the legal job market.


FTFY... I have second thoughts but honestly Im well aware that I just hate loans and risk. At the end of the day, even if I were going to medical school I would still be having second thoughts. I could just get an entry-level analyst job and try to work my way up but I know thats not my personality type. To get to the higher levels of society when you come from the lower levels you have to take a risk at some point.

LSATclincher
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby LSATclincher » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:32 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
Inmilex wrote:Just curious, considering the continuing collapse of the legal job market.


FTFY... I have second thoughts but honestly Im well aware that I just hate loans and risk. At the end of the day, even if I were going to medical school I would still be having second thoughts. I could just get an entry-level analyst job and try to work my way up but I know thats not my personality type. To get to the higher levels of society when you come from the lower levels you have to take a risk at some point.


Great point. Ultimately, we are taking risks on ourselves and our abilities, so if our confidence is high, we should feel less risky about the investment.

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AreJay711
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby AreJay711 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:35 pm

Ehh I second guess myself all the time but I'm just going to go for it. If I'm in the bottom 1/3rd after my first year, I could still be in good shape with my alternative if I drop out.

d34d9823
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby d34d9823 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:35 pm

ahduth wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
ahduth wrote:DLA Piper is setting up its own internal outsourcing operation

Lol DLA Piper


Does DLA Piper have a good/bad reputation? I don't know very much about the various firms at all.

The main reason I'm trying to get into a top school is that I want to make sure I'm in control of the process of playing local contracting costs against overseas contracting costs. Legal fees are going to continue to go down in a number of market areas. A partner's ability to deliver local resources versus foreign resources will come to mirror what happens in accountancy. This is very particular to me I suppose, but I decided to go to law school to understand what I need to make this work. The good old days of billing associates out because they have the firm's name on their business card are increasingly over.

They really struggled during the downturn and were pretty harsh on their associates. Ergo now people don't want to go there. (theoretically, most people don't have the luxury of turning down a V100 firm)

chasgoose
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby chasgoose » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:34 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Adjudicator wrote:
ahduth wrote:
Inmilex wrote:Just curious, considering the continuing collapse of the legal job market.


Please elaborate on "continuing collapse."


This. It definitely did collapse, but at this point I think we are past the nadir. It is beginning to show some signs of life, however minor. It will probably never be what it once was, but it won't be as bad as the past couple of years, either.


It will rebound to mid 2000 levels eventually. But taht still doesn't mean paying sticker at Tulane is a good idea. Law school has always been a bad choice for most law students.


Personally I disagree. While it will definitely rebound. I highly doubt we will see it return to mid-2000 levels anytime soon. Those were an aberration, an aberration partially to blame for the economic collapse we saw. People keep forgetting that the mid-2000 levels throughout most fields were an artificially enhanced bubble that was sustained by collective willful ignorance. A lot of what happened in 2007-2008 was simply the economy righting itself to reflect reality rather than the fairy tale everyone subscribed to. The real economy is going to have to improve beyond mid-2000 levels for that sort of job market to ever exist in a sustainable manner again.

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law4vus
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Re: Any second thoughts on law school among 0Ls?

Postby law4vus » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:39 pm

Inmilex wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:It will rebound to mid 2000 levels eventually. But taht still doesn't mean paying sticker at Tulane is a good idea. Law school has always been a bad choice for most law students.


Possibly, but the classes of 2007 through at least 2012 are lost.


Do you mean law school graduating classes of 07-12 or entering classes?




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