Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

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kopper
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby kopper » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:40 pm

homestyle28 wrote:Good luck to you sir. The lesson here is to never ask a 14 year old what they want to be when they grow up. A teenager doesn't calculate the costs of that dream job. When I was 14 I was going to play pro-football. Then I stopped growing. And was slow. And didn't like getting hit...


Hahaha! That is funny. I had the same experience. Took me a while to find a new path but think I have found it. I must say I am working much harder to reach these more realistic goals than I did for my pro sports goal. Somehow expected it was going to happen just b/c I'm me.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:46 pm

@OP: Interesting response since your law school numbers profile shows you as having applied to UCLA, Berkeley & Texas and your original post states that you would hold off withdrawing pending applications.

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T6Hopeful
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby T6Hopeful » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:49 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:@OP: Interesting response since your law school numbers profile shows you as having applied to UCLA, Berkeley & Texas and your original post states that you would hold off withdrawing pending applications.

That's true, but that was just me playing the leveraging game at the time. I had no intention of going to any of those schools at the time, but I did also realize the importance of scholarship negotiating.

Also, I apologize for that ambiguity in my post. Your interpretation is in line with what you read, but is not what I intended to get across. Thanks for the attention to detail and constructive criticism, though.

ETA: also, if you intend to bring up W&M, among others, I did also just want kind of a "gimme" app. I'm still blessed to have gotten that acceptance.

HowdyYall
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby HowdyYall » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:53 pm

kopper wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:Good luck to you sir. The lesson here is to never ask a 14 year old what they want to be when they grow up. A teenager doesn't calculate the costs of that dream job. When I was 14 I was going to play pro-football. Then I stopped growing. And was slow. And didn't like getting hit...


Somehow expected it was going to happen just b/c I'm me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7VZt4mmPHo


T6Hopeful: Good luck in your future endeavors bud!

getitdone
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby getitdone » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:03 pm

you could go for free, and then who knows what will happen, but damn your gonna pass on free money and education, that is simply "ludacris"!

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T6Hopeful
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby T6Hopeful » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:28 pm

Thanks Howdy!

Update: I have withdrawn all of my pending applications, and will withdraw all of my acceptances over the next few days with a more personally crafted email for each school. I believe that inasmuch as those schools have taken the time and effort to review my application and accept me, I should be just as courteous in my withdrawal.

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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby beastmode » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:33 pm

emmbar53 wrote:
T6Hopeful wrote:2. YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH MISTER/MADAM. That's my childhood hero!


Sounds good. Besides, I grew up as a Reggie Miller fan. He's even more overrated in Indiana than Ewing is in NYC. (I have friends in Indiana who are fairly convinced that, in the 90's, Jordan was the only player better than Reggie AND that it was close between those two.).

Reggie Miller = best shooter of all time

rundoxierun
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:39 pm

T6 has made a decision that he feels comfortable with but for other people reading this thread for guidance.. remember a few things

1) TLS vastly overstates the risk of getting a job for T14 grads. Even a well paying one. I have discovered that it isnt a binary 160k/eternal 40-50k situation like TLS paints it. In my city(mid-sized southern city) alone there are small non-NALP directory firms that start at around 70-80k with the opportunity to make much more. Sure, these dont make up a huge amount of hiring but they do love to hire top grads when they have the chance. It isnt a huge amount of money but its a good sum for someone just starting out(providing you dont have absolutely retarded debt). I was introduced to a Vanderbilt grad who gave me a list of other Vandy grads he knew in the area and offered to help me in reaching out to the other Vandy grads who then connected me to grads of other schools I was interested in. You can do something similar in your city to get some real info. It is definitely rough out there, even for some top grads, but not as rough as TLS paints it.

2) Lawyers are not as unhappy as portrayed. Sure there are plenty that are unhappy but the same can be said about any profession. The weird thing about TLS is that people seem to think that they are supposed to get their life fulfillment from their job. The majority of the lawyers I know are happy people but they look toward relationships for fulfillment (relationships w/ coworkers, family, the community, etc.). In fact, one of the most successful non-PI lawyers I know once said to me "I would be a ditch digger if I could take care of my wife and 6 kids and keep us all happy". If you want the fulfillment do PI work. Some jobs just arent going to give it to you. Biglaw falls into the same category as banking, financial analyst, big consulting, etc.

ETA: 3) There are no safe fields right now. I have a bunch of friends from Purdue engineering scouring the country looking for entry-level jobs. Nursing students cant get jobs because hospitals are leaving openings unfilled. A few of my friends from top-LACs (SWAP) are working in catering right now. Its rough everywhere. But dont make decisions based on temporary economic conditions. In this economy we all have to take some risk. Its gooing to work out for a lot of the people who take the risk (based on decent info/assumptions of course) but it might go bad for some. Thats life.

TLS is good for a lot of things. It can give you some good tips on LSAT prep, it can give you some general info on schools, can put you in touch with students, etc. Still, dont use it as your sole source of gaining insight into the post-law school legal community as a whole.

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OrdinarilySkilled
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby OrdinarilySkilled » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:03 pm

GL
Last edited by OrdinarilySkilled on Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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T6Hopeful
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby T6Hopeful » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:13 pm

OrdinarilySkilled wrote:As someone with the same exact numbers as you (and what looks like nearly identical submit dates) I feel your frustration with a slow to develop cycle. I, too, have gone back and forth on the idea of law school (I have applied in previous cycles and put down seat deposits only to change my mind at the last minute) and I hope you have not decided to withdraw too hastily because I have gone from one extreme to the other multiple times. As tk said above, this website gives a skewed view of prospects and the effects of debt from a graduate degree investment, so dont give up if it is something you truly want to do. Either way GL.

Also please let the schools know that they can admit me now since they don't have to decide between the two of us. Tyia :wink:

Thanks for the advice. I don't think it was hasty action. In fact, the night I made up my mind for good I made sure NOT to withdraw on that day. The "slow cycle" factor, while annoying, I can assure you did not play a role in my decision. In fact, it was another thing dragging me back to the "time and energy invested" factor, so if anything it made me hold on longer. I hope that your cycle is going well! I was VERY happy with getting multiple T14 acceptances, and I feel no less lucky or blessed to have gotten them in retrospect.

As to what tk said above, I absolutely agree. This is first and foremost a personal choice, and your mileage may vary depending on your circumstances and goals. TLS does definitely skews viewpoints, statistics, etc. But while you do take everything I've said with a HUGE grain of salt, please do think long and hard about whether you want to be a lawyer, how feasible it is to get from here to where you want to be, taking on possibly ridiculous debt or trading it for a school with weaker job prospects, etc. Maybe it's not exactly as bad as I think it is, but that's something I wasn't willing to dive into to find out. It's much better to have thought about all this seriously before, rather than after, law school. Good luck to everyone!

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Zarathustraspoke
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby Zarathustraspoke » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:14 pm

OP, I commend you on taking out time and hashing some rational reasons for your decision (if it is that yet) on choosing not to go to law school. I, for one, despite doing my research am going to continue my quest of going to law school regardless of the hardships I will be faced with. Some might call it being stubborn, silly, or even naive but I've always wanted to go to law school and try and do the best I can with my situation. (note: my LSAT score is not as high as yours so my prospects are dimmer)

With the said I wish I had the acumen to be as sensible as you. Godspeed on the Fulbright!

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takehold
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby takehold » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:26 pm

tkgrrett wrote:T6 has made a decision that he feels comfortable with but for other people reading this thread for guidance.. remember a few things

1) TLS vastly overstates the risk of getting a job for T14 grads. Even a well paying one. I have discovered that it isnt a binary 160k/eternal 40-50k situation like TLS paints it. In my city(mid-sized southern city) alone there are small non-NALP directory firms that start at around 70-80k with the opportunity to make much more. Sure, these dont make up a huge amount of hiring but they do love to hire top grads when they have the chance. It isnt a huge amount of money but its a good sum for someone just starting out(providing you dont have absolutely retarded debt). I was introduced to a Vanderbilt grad who gave me a list of other Vandy grads he knew in the area and offered to help me in reaching out to the other Vandy grads who then connected me to grads of other schools I was interested in. You can do something similar in your city to get some real info. It is definitely rough out there, even for some top grads, but not as rough as TLS paints it.

2) Lawyers are not as unhappy as portrayed. Sure there are plenty that are unhappy but the same can be said about any profession. The weird thing about TLS is that people seem to think that they are supposed to get their life fulfillment from their job. The majority of the lawyers I know are happy people but they look toward relationships for fulfillment (relationships w/ coworkers, family, the community, etc.). In fact, one of the most successful non-PI lawyers I know once said to me "I would be a ditch digger if I could take care of my wife and 6 kids and keep us all happy". If you want the fulfillment do PI work. Some jobs just arent going to give it to you. Biglaw falls into the same category as banking, financial analyst, big consulting, etc.

ETA: 3) There are no safe fields right now. I have a bunch of friends from Purdue engineering scouring the country looking for entry-level jobs. Nursing students cant get jobs because hospitals are leaving openings unfilled. A few of my friends from top-LACs (SWAP) are working in catering right now. Its rough everywhere. But dont make decisions based on temporary economic conditions. In this economy we all have to take some risk. Its gooing to work out for a lot of the people who take the risk (based on decent info/assumptions of course) but it might go bad for some. Thats life.

TLS is good for a lot of things. It can give you some good tips on LSAT prep, it can give you some general info on schools, can put you in touch with students, etc. Still, dont use it as your sole source of gaining insight into the post-law school legal community as a whole.


Great post.

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bk1
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby bk1 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:40 pm

tkgrrett wrote:T6 has made a decision that he feels comfortable with but for other people reading this thread for guidance.. remember a few things

1) TLS vastly overstates the risk of getting a job for T14 grads. Even a well paying one. I have discovered that it isnt a binary 160k/eternal 40-50k situation like TLS paints it. In my city(mid-sized southern city) alone there are small non-NALP directory firms that start at around 70-80k with the opportunity to make much more. Sure, these dont make up a huge amount of hiring but they do love to hire top grads when they have the chance. It isnt a huge amount of money but its a good sum for someone just starting out(providing you dont have absolutely retarded debt). I was introduced to a Vanderbilt grad who gave me a list of other Vandy grads he knew in the area and offered to help me in reaching out to the other Vandy grads who then connected me to grads of other schools I was interested in. You can do something similar in your city to get some real info. It is definitely rough out there, even for some top grads, but not as rough as TLS paints it.

2) Lawyers are not as unhappy as portrayed. Sure there are plenty that are unhappy but the same can be said about any profession. The weird thing about TLS is that people seem to think that they are supposed to get their life fulfillment from their job. The majority of the lawyers I know are happy people but they look toward relationships for fulfillment (relationships w/ coworkers, family, the community, etc.). In fact, one of the most successful non-PI lawyers I know once said to me "I would be a ditch digger if I could take care of my wife and 6 kids and keep us all happy". If you want the fulfillment do PI work. Some jobs just arent going to give it to you. Biglaw falls into the same category as banking, financial analyst, big consulting, etc.

ETA: 3) There are no safe fields right now. I have a bunch of friends from Purdue engineering scouring the country looking for entry-level jobs. Nursing students cant get jobs because hospitals are leaving openings unfilled. A few of my friends from top-LACs (SWAP) are working in catering right now. Its rough everywhere. But dont make decisions based on temporary economic conditions. In this economy we all have to take some risk. Its gooing to work out for a lot of the people who take the risk (based on decent info/assumptions of course) but it might go bad for some. Thats life.

TLS is good for a lot of things. It can give you some good tips on LSAT prep, it can give you some general info on schools, can put you in touch with students, etc. Still, dont use it as your sole source of gaining insight into the post-law school legal community as a whole.


1. You're being obtuse. The point here is that the binary is basically "market rate"/"shitlaw rate." In NYC this may be 160k/50k, in the backwoods of bumfuck county this may be 80k/30k.

2. People taking on sticker price are going to need those miserable jobs to pay down their debt. It isn't that your job should be fulfilling, it's that your job shouldn't make you feel like shit and nuke your other relationships (something that 2500 billable hours will do to you). For some people, not taking biglaw from a T14 at sticker really isn't a financial choice they want to make.

3. Duh.

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homestyle28
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby homestyle28 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:44 pm

JaLeCa wrote:
ahduth wrote:
NZA wrote:
dabears1 wrote:Flame?


--ImageRemoved--

Check yoself fo you wreck yoself.


Greatest sitcom ever. Name one better and I'll go to bat for AD.


While I'm not saying it's better, Modern Family is pretty awesome.

rundoxierun
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:50 pm

bk1 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:T6 has made a decision that he feels comfortable with but for other people reading this thread for guidance.. remember a few things

1) TLS vastly overstates the risk of getting a job for T14 grads. Even a well paying one. I have discovered that it isnt a binary 160k/eternal 40-50k situation like TLS paints it. In my city(mid-sized southern city) alone there are small non-NALP directory firms that start at around 70-80k with the opportunity to make much more. Sure, these dont make up a huge amount of hiring but they do love to hire top grads when they have the chance. It isnt a huge amount of money but its a good sum for someone just starting out(providing you dont have absolutely retarded debt). I was introduced to a Vanderbilt grad who gave me a list of other Vandy grads he knew in the area and offered to help me in reaching out to the other Vandy grads who then connected me to grads of other schools I was interested in. You can do something similar in your city to get some real info. It is definitely rough out there, even for some top grads, but not as rough as TLS paints it.

2) Lawyers are not as unhappy as portrayed. Sure there are plenty that are unhappy but the same can be said about any profession. The weird thing about TLS is that people seem to think that they are supposed to get their life fulfillment from their job. The majority of the lawyers I know are happy people but they look toward relationships for fulfillment (relationships w/ coworkers, family, the community, etc.). In fact, one of the most successful non-PI lawyers I know once said to me "I would be a ditch digger if I could take care of my wife and 6 kids and keep us all happy". If you want the fulfillment do PI work. Some jobs just arent going to give it to you. Biglaw falls into the same category as banking, financial analyst, big consulting, etc.

ETA: 3) There are no safe fields right now. I have a bunch of friends from Purdue engineering scouring the country looking for entry-level jobs. Nursing students cant get jobs because hospitals are leaving openings unfilled. A few of my friends from top-LACs (SWAP) are working in catering right now. Its rough everywhere. But dont make decisions based on temporary economic conditions. In this economy we all have to take some risk. Its gooing to work out for a lot of the people who take the risk (based on decent info/assumptions of course) but it might go bad for some. Thats life.

TLS is good for a lot of things. It can give you some good tips on LSAT prep, it can give you some general info on schools, can put you in touch with students, etc. Still, dont use it as your sole source of gaining insight into the post-law school legal community as a whole.


1. You're being obtuse. The point here is that the binary is basically "market rate"/"shitlaw rate." In NYC this may be 160k/50k, in the backwoods of bumfuck county this may be 80k/30k.

2. People taking on sticker price are going to need those miserable jobs to pay down their debt. It isn't that your job should be fulfilling, it's that your job shouldn't make you feel like shit and nuke your other relationships (something that 2500 billable hours will do to you). For some people, not taking biglaw from a T14 at sticker really isn't a financial choice they want to make.

3. Duh.


Ok seriously dude.. I have noticed that you come on here for the sole point of posting things that snarkily conflict with what others say. Ive never seen you post anything that indicates you have any clue what you are talking about. Give it a rest. What I posted is exactly what I meant. No need for any analysis by you. Not all biglaw is 2500 hours. Even within biglaw, people have time to have relationships w/ coworkers, family or communities. Believe it or not, biglaw is not the only career that causes people to work 10-12 hrs on a regular basis with spikes of greater demand. This is America. Even moderately payed financial/business analysts at companies work 10-12 hr days.

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bk1
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby bk1 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:53 pm

tkgrrett wrote:What I posted is exactly what I meant. No need for any analysis.


Are you dumb?

However as this is T6's thread and I respect his decision immensely, I'm going to leave it at that (even if it is my attempt to get the last word).

rundoxierun
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:04 pm

bk1 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:What I posted is exactly what I meant. No need for any analysis.


Are you dumb?

However as this is T6's thread and I respect his decision immensely, I'm going to leave it at that (even if it is my attempt to get the last word).


Yes. Thats exactly whats going on. Perfect analysis by the guy who finds the need to respond to a statement regarding some job markets (healthcare and engineering) that a lot of people see as "safe" with "Duh."

You are a gem :roll: :roll:

dabears1
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby dabears1 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:07 pm

Smart money is not on law school.

czelede
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby czelede » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:11 pm

Thanks for taking the time to post all this, T6 - it seems like you really thought this out and made the best possible decision for yourself. Good luck with the Fulbright and beyond!

emmbar53
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby emmbar53 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:55 pm

beastmode wrote:
emmbar53 wrote:
T6Hopeful wrote:2. YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH MISTER/MADAM. That's my childhood hero!


Sounds good. Besides, I grew up as a Reggie Miller fan. He's even more overrated in Indiana than Ewing is in NYC. (I have friends in Indiana who are fairly convinced that, in the 90's, Jordan was the only player better than Reggie AND that it was close between those two.).

Reggie Miller = best shooter of all time


No way. He couldn't create his own shot.

Also, we didn't have a 3pt line until 1979-1980, so long range shooters from back in the day are underrated (we just have to go by anecdotal claims like "Maravich could make it from 25 feet!").

List of people (in no particular order) off the top of my head I would probably take over Reggie as pure shooters (note: I give a lot of weight to one's ability to create one's own shot).

Maravich, English, Gervin, Bird, Rick Barry, maybe Dirk, and soon-to-be Durant.

dabears1
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby dabears1 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:56 pm

emmbar53 wrote:
beastmode wrote:
emmbar53 wrote:
T6Hopeful wrote:2. YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH MISTER/MADAM. That's my childhood hero!


Sounds good. Besides, I grew up as a Reggie Miller fan. He's even more overrated in Indiana than Ewing is in NYC. (I have friends in Indiana who are fairly convinced that, in the 90's, Jordan was the only player better than Reggie AND that it was close between those two.).

Reggie Miller = best shooter of all time


No way. He couldn't create his own shot.

Also, we didn't have a 3pt line until 1979-1980, so long range shooters from back in the day are underrated (we just have to go by anecdotal claims like "Maravich could make it from 25 feet!").

List of people (in no particular order) off the top of my head I would probably take over Reggie as pure shooters (note: I give a lot of weight to one's ability to create one's own shot).

Maravich, English, Gervin, Bird, Rick Barry, maybe Dirk, and soon-to-be Durant.


Peter North belongs somewhere on this list...

emmbar53
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby emmbar53 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:12 pm

dabears1 wrote:Peter North belongs somewhere on this list...


Nah. Quality over quantity.

beastmode
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby beastmode » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:42 pm

List of people (in no particular order) off the top of my head I would probably take over Reggie as pure shooters (note: I give a lot of weight to one's ability to create one's own shot).

Maravich, English, Gervin, Bird, Rick Barry, maybe Dirk, and soon-to-be Durant.[/quote]

Peter North belongs somewhere on this list...[/quote]

Dirk and durant maybe, if they start stepping up come playoff time. ray allen probably belongs in the discussion too, but i'm taking reg all day. the old guys - yawn... i guess bird deserves some love - loved his bball iq more than any other part of his game though.

i've never watched porn, so i have no idea who this peter north character is. sorry.

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T6Hopeful
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby T6Hopeful » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:58 am

How did this thread turn into a discussion about pornstars :( Unless that's a sign that my career SHOULD head in that direction. :wink:

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DeeCee
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Re: Read if you want; T6Hopeful decides law school's not for him

Postby DeeCee » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:40 pm

T6Hopeful wrote:How did this thread turn into a discussion about pornstars :( Unless that's a sign that my career SHOULD head in that direction. :wink:


lol




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