4.0 and 165 into a top 6?

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johnsinger
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4.0 and 165 into a top 6?

Postby johnsinger » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:49 pm

Hi everyone.

I'm applying really late into the cycle (still working on my Why Harvard/Why Yale essays), which I already think means a much lower chance than I could have had, but I wonder if my scores are anything other than a hail Mary to get into HYS or a T6. I have a 4.0 from my undergrad transfer university, a small private college I'm on full scholarship at which not highly ranked academically, only one student from my college ever got into HLS, only one ever into YLS, both URM's with lower LSAT scores than me. I also had a 3.85 from my community college before transferring but my undergrad shows me as a 4.0 because they don't transfer grades in. I took the LSAT twice while studying overseas getting a 165 both times, about 4 points lower than my average for Practice tests. I'm already 29 so I'm getting a bit old to wait a year and retake a third time. Will being over the 75% for G.P.A. but under the 25% for LSAT kill me in the T6?

I don't know what the average law school applicant has for soft factors/resume but I think mine are fairly good, I've already studied law at Oxford in England and received A equivalent grades there which only the top 15% of students in Oxford on average get. I'm also the president of my student law club and am spending my summer in Africa opening up a legal clinic. I was a firefighter.

I'm the son of a South American Immigrant on my mothers side and a white American on my father's side so I don't know if being half and half qualifies me as a URM since South American doesn't seem to get the Mexican or Puerto Rican bump. At least two of my recommendations state that I'm the best student that the professors have ever taught in their career. Do you think the soft factors and G.P.A. are enough to get into the that bottom 25 percentile of applicants below the LSAT cut off? Should I bother writing an addendum about a 165 not representing my true potential in law school or would it just sound contrite?

This news was heartbreaking, I've taken each and every practice LSAT and scored as high as a 171 before, and rarely scored lower than a 166, and since it's overseas I don't even get to check my answers since they're both non-disclosed.

HowdyYall
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:49 pm

Re: 4.0 and 165 into a top 6?

Postby HowdyYall » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:53 pm

retake in june after a little more practice for consistency and then reapply early early next cycle (like september). as a URM all you need is a few points on the LSAT to put you into a solid lockdown on a few of the T6

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twert
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Re: 4.0 and 165 into a top 6?

Postby twert » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:55 pm

1. it does not sound like your gpa is really a 4.0

2. i do not think you are a urm

3. your chances at a t6 are not good. LSP says cal is the first school where you are a "consider" and LSP in my experience is generous.

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kalvano
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Re: 4.0 and 165 into a top 6?

Postby kalvano » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:43 pm

Hate to tell you, but you don't have a 4.0.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: 4.0 and 165 into a top 6?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:47 pm

johnsinger wrote:I also had a 3.85 from my community college before transferring but my undergrad shows me as a 4.0 because they don't transfer grades in.


You have to submit transcripts from all colleges/universities attended, including community colleges, and your LSDAS GPA (the one law schools consider) will include all of these grades, even if your degree-granting institution didn't transfer any credit in from the community college.

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Pleasye
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Re: 4.0 and 165 into a top 6?

Postby Pleasye » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:19 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
johnsinger wrote:I also had a 3.85 from my community college before transferring but my undergrad shows me as a 4.0 because they don't transfer grades in.


You have to submit transcripts from all colleges/universities attended, including community colleges, and your LSDAS GPA (the one law schools consider) will include all of these grades, even if your degree-granting institution didn't transfer any credit in from the community college.


This.

Also, if you haven't even sent your transcripts and LOR's into LSAC yet you may be applying much later than you think. Transcripts and LOR's can take a few weeks to process one they are sent. You may want to consider sitting out another year and applying next cycle.

You are not a URM but regardless of when you decide to apply you should write a diversity statement to submit to schools. Don't write the LSAT addendum.

Good luck!

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Patriot1208
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Re: 4.0 and 165 into a top 6?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:29 pm

As others have said, you will have closer to a 3.9 on your LSDAS report. Also, grades from English schools, I believe, will not be counted. Lastly, you have pretty much zero chance at the t6 and only slight chances at a few t14 schools.

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acadec
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Re: 4.0 and 165 into a top 6?

Postby acadec » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:44 pm

Another thing: there is basically no point in writing a Why Harvard or Yale essay. Those schools already know you want to go there; they're not insecure like MVP.

paulinaporizkova
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: 4.0 and 165 into a top 6?

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:13 pm

Don't send an addendum on how your LSAT scores don't reflect your true potential for LS. If you've gotten the same score twice, that number is accurate - that's an accurate reflection of your potential. I have a 3.95 GPA and a 167 LSAT and I know I can't get into a T6. If you want, ED at MVPDN and you might have a decent shot.




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