Is Law School a Losing Game?

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prezidentv8
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:20 am

glitched wrote:enjoy the more relevant discussion everyone else.


Wait, we have that?

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well-hello-there
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby well-hello-there » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:26 am

JG Hall wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:Both guys in the article are effing idiots; the Columbia grad more so than the other guy. Just because someone has the LSAT score and GPA to get into Columbia, doesn't mean that they aren't also the laziest person you've ever met. I personally know somebody like this!!!!! After this guy graduates from a T6, his ONLY option will be some sort of government job, IF THAT! He IS and forever will be unemployable.

So yes, there are people who go to the most prestigious schools and don't find work, but that is only because they didn't try hard enough.

I do believe however that for most people, law school is a losing game.

He was a transfer from Florida, so I'd say he efforted pretty damn hard.

Where did it say that?

kk19131 wrote:"I went to Harvard and now have 200k in loans and can't find a decent job. Law school is a scam!"

unbelievable

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JG Hall
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby JG Hall » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:31 am

well-hello-there wrote:
JG Hall wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:Both guys in the article are effing idiots; the Columbia grad more so than the other guy. Just because someone has the LSAT score and GPA to get into Columbia, doesn't mean that they aren't also the laziest person you've ever met. I personally know somebody like this!!!!! After this guy graduates from a T6, his ONLY option will be some sort of government job, IF THAT! He IS and forever will be unemployable.

So yes, there are people who go to the most prestigious schools and don't find work, but that is only because they didn't try hard enough.

I do believe however that for most people, law school is a losing game.

He was a transfer from Florida, so I'd say he efforted pretty damn hard.

Where did it say that?

linkedin

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well-hello-there
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby well-hello-there » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:47 am

I'm not a linkedin member so I can't see his full profile. Maybe the guy just comes off as an ass and that's why he can't get a job?

Aqualibrium
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby Aqualibrium » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:49 am

well-hello-there wrote:I'm not a linkedin member so I can't see his full profile. Maybe the guy just comes off as an ass and that's why he can't get a job?



Or maybe the job market is just tough across the board right now...

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JG Hall
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby JG Hall » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:49 am

well-hello-there wrote:I'm not a linkedin member so I can't see his full profile. Maybe the guy just comes off as an ass and that's why he can't get a job?

why yes, since you've already failed once at making sweeping negative generalizations as to this man's character, why not move on to another?

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JazzOne
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby JazzOne » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:01 am

JG Hall wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:I'm not a linkedin member so I can't see his full profile. Maybe the guy just comes off as an ass and that's why he can't get a job?

why yes, since you've already failed once at making sweeping negative generalizations as to this man's character, why not move on to another?

lol

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well-hello-there
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby well-hello-there » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:38 am

JG Hall wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:I'm not a linkedin member so I can't see his full profile. Maybe the guy just comes off as an ass and that's why he can't get a job?

why yes, since you've already failed once at making sweeping negative generalizations as to this man's character, why not move on to another?

if in fact he transferred from florida to columbia, that's impressive.
The article never mentioned that he's currently working on the LLM. Maybe that's why he can't find a job...he's not looking. Or, maybe the guy's an ass. Either reason would explain why he isn't working. My point is that if you went to HYS or even C and you don't have a job, it's your fault.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby Aqualibrium » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:41 am

It'd be cool if life was like sitcoms and you could have a character flash back like 2 years to a time he made a comment about something as he realizes that he's presently in that exact position. It'd make TLS a lot more fun too.

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JenDarby
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby JenDarby » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:45 am

well-hello-there wrote:
JG Hall wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:I'm not a linkedin member so I can't see his full profile. Maybe the guy just comes off as an ass and that's why he can't get a job?

why yes, since you've already failed once at making sweeping negative generalizations as to this man's character, why not move on to another?

if in fact he transferred from florida to columbia, that's impressive.
The article never mentioned that he's currently working on the LLM. Maybe that's why he can't find a job...he's not looking. Or, maybe the guy's an ass. Either reason would explain why he isn't working. My point is that if you went to HYS or even C and you don't have a job, it's your fault.


http://jccany.convio.net/site/News2?pag ... le&id=5349

This was posted earlier establishing he went to Columbia for UG, and Florida for law school.....

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JG Hall
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby JG Hall » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:55 am

well-hello-there wrote:
JG Hall wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:I'm not a linkedin member so I can't see his full profile. Maybe the guy just comes off as an ass and that's why he can't get a job?

why yes, since you've already failed once at making sweeping negative generalizations as to this man's character, why not move on to another?

if in fact he transferred from florida to columbia, that's impressive.
The article never mentioned that he's currently working on the LLM. Maybe that's why he can't find a job...he's not looking. Or, maybe the guy's an ass. Either reason would explain why he isn't working. My point is that if you went to HYS or even C and you don't have a job, it's your fault.

Hmm, looks like I misstated earlier. LLM Class of 2012.

Either way, you don't know jack shit.

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well-hello-there
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby well-hello-there » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:11 am

JenDarby wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:
JG Hall wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:I'm not a linkedin member so I can't see his full profile. Maybe the guy just comes off as an ass and that's why he can't get a job?

why yes, since you've already failed once at making sweeping negative generalizations as to this man's character, why not move on to another?

if in fact he transferred from florida to columbia, that's impressive.
The article never mentioned that he's currently working on the LLM. Maybe that's why he can't find a job...he's not looking. Or, maybe the guy's an ass. Either reason would explain why he isn't working. My point is that if you went to HYS or even C and you don't have a job, it's your fault.


http://jccany.convio.net/site/News2?pag ... le&id=5349

This was posted earlier establishing he went to Columbia for UG, and Florida for law school.....

I read the entire thread before I posted and I wasn't sure if that debate was settled. That's why I wrote, "if in fact he transferred"

NYT Article quote wrote:Jason Bohn is earning $33 an hour as a legal temp while strapped to more than $200,000 in loans, a sizable chunk of which he accumulated during his time at Columbia University, where he finished both a J.D. and a master’s degree.

NYT Article quote wrote:Jason Bohn earns $33 an hour from his laptop while sitting in his LLM classes at Columbia Law. "My professors are so boring I could just die and then one day I had this epiphany: Why not get paid to sit through this shit?!" So he found a job as a legal temp. "There's no way I could work a real job right now while attending school but I figured this job would at least make the Mercedes payment." Mr. Bohn says he's not the least bit worried about his $200,000 in loans which he accumulated during his time at Columbia University. "Hell I'd take on another $200,000 if they'd give it to me! After I consolidate all these loans down to 3% which is lower than inflation, it's like they're paying me to borrow! After the LLM, I could have it all paid off in like 5 years but that would be just stupid at those rates."
Fixed.
Last edited by well-hello-there on Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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well-hello-there
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby well-hello-there » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:12 am

JG Hall wrote:Either way, you don't know jack shit.

maybe not, but what the fuck do you know?

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ResolutePear
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:13 am

well-hello-there wrote:
JG Hall wrote:Either way, you don't know jack shit.

maybe not, but what the fuck do you know?


I know one more thing than the nth-guy.

I am, the most interesting man in the world.

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JG Hall
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby JG Hall » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:35 am

well-hello-there wrote:
JG Hall wrote:Either way, you don't know jack shit.

maybe not, but what the fuck do you know?

well, I'm a 2L with a job, so... who knows
well-hello-there wrote:I read the entire thread before I posted...

NYT Article quote wrote:Jason Bohn is earning $33 an hour as a legal temp while strapped to more than $200,000 in loans, a sizable chunk of which he accumulated during his time at Columbia University, where he finished both a J.D. and a master’s degree.

NYT Article quote wrote:Jason Bohn earns $33 an hour from his laptop while sitting in his LLM classes at Columbia Law. "My professors are so boring I could just die and then one day I had this epiphany: Why not get paid to sit through this shit?!" So he found a job as a legal temp. "There's no way I could work a real job right now while attending school but I figured this job would at least make the Mercedes payment." Mr. Bohn says he's not the least bit worried about his $200,000 in loans which he accumulated during his time at Columbia University. "Hell I'd take on another $200,000 if they'd give it to me! After I consolidate all these loans down to 3% which is lower than inflation, it's like they're paying me to borrow! After the LLM, I could have it all paid off in like 5 years but that would be just stupid at those rates."
Fixed.

but judging by this, more than you

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WhatSarahSaid
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby WhatSarahSaid » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:34 am

glitched wrote:loll humans haven't abided to the rules of natural selection for centuries if not millenniums.

and furthermore, i think in at least america, considering the low birth rates from highly educated parents (this claim is an assumption based on the fact that it takes at least four years for a college degree and another few more for a professional degree, a "highly educated" person would have less time to reproduce. Data could prove me wrong if anyone has it.), natural selection actually favors the "idiots."

just wanted to randomly chime in. haha enjoy the more relevant discussion everyone else.


http://xkcd.com/603/

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TatNurner
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby TatNurner » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:50 am

In regards to Harvard being worth sticker or not, I have a friend who is a 2L there. I tell her about the stuff I read on TLS about the legal market and she is shocked. She basically sleep walked into 1L and 2L summers (non URM) . And she's not trying that hard in school either. Has quite a bit of free time from what I've observed. Enough time to annoy me anyways, heh.

So yeah, thats just one example, but it seems my friend at Harvard is having a very easy time of it. When I showed her what was going on on TLS, she was like, meh, those guys stress too much.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:12 am

TatNurner wrote:In regards to Harvard being worth sticker or not, I have a friend who is a 2L there. I tell her about the stuff I read on TLS about the legal market and she is shocked. She basically sleep walked into 1L and 2L summers (non URM) . And she's not trying that hard in school either. Has quite a bit of free time from what I've observed. Enough time to annoy me anyways, heh.

So yeah, thats just one example, but it seems my friend at Harvard is having a very easy time of it. When I showed her what was going on on TLS, she was like, meh, those guys stress too much.


BUT..

BUT...


BIG LAW!!

/self

DreamShake
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby DreamShake » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:08 am

ScottRiqui wrote:This part made my heart drop into my stomach (if I end up going to law school, I'll be 47 when I graduate):

Most of us either went to the wrong law school, which is the bottom two-thirds, or we were too old when we graduated,” he said. “I was 32 when I graduated, and at 32 you’re washed up in this field, in terms of a shot at the real deal. They perceived me as somebody they can’t indoctrinate into slave labor and work to death for seven years and then release if they don’t like you.

Unfortunately, we don't learn anything about the quoted lawyer in the article except that he's managing a temporary legal service, so I guess I can hold out hope that his age wasn't his only problem.


I can kind of see age as a problem in Biglaw for the reason given. Firms make most of their money by working their salaried associates like slaves, a lifestyle better suited to the young and relatively unburdened (i.e., unmarried and without kids). Even if a hiring partner's fears may be unfounded, he might well still harbor them.

But, man, the grammar in that excerpt is horrible.

gens1tb
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby gens1tb » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:12 am

This thread fills me with cognitive dissonance.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:37 am

gens1tb wrote:This thread fills me with cognitive dissonance.


Is that like.. constipation?

gens1tb
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby gens1tb » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:52 am

ResolutePear wrote:
gens1tb wrote:This thread fills me with cognitive dissonance.


Is that like.. constipation?


I guess. But it's like having it on a desert island where there is no fiber.
The bright side is there's a boat that takes me off the island...

but it costs $200,000

and there's a 75% chance it'll be raided by pirates and I'll be killed.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:53 am

gens1tb wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
gens1tb wrote:This thread fills me with cognitive dissonance.


Is that like.. constipation?


I guess. But it's like having it on a desert island where there is no fiber.
The bright side is there's a boat that takes me off the island...

but it costs $200,000

and there's a 75% chance it'll be raided by pirates and I'll be killed.


Those are actually pretty good chances.

Do you have work experience?

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sundance95
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby sundance95 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:14 am

To those saying 'just let idiots take out loans, personal responsibility, etc etc,' you do realize that allowing stupid people to take out ginormous loans that they could never repay is what precipitated the mortgage crisis, and by extension, ITE, right? How is giving out $300,000 to someone to attend TJ School o' Law any different then giving out a $300,000 ARM to someone working at Wal-Mart? Oh wait, I know-the ARM is dischargeable through BK.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:16 am

sundance95 wrote:To those saying 'just let idiots take out loans, personal responsibility, etc etc,' you do realize that allowing stupid people to take out ginormous loans that they could never repay is what precipitated the mortgage crisis, and by extension, ITE, right? How is giving out $300,000 to someone to attend TJ School o' Law any different then giving out a $300,000 ARM to someone working at Wal-Mart? Oh wait, I know-the ARM is dischargeable through BK.


Argument invalid. You cannot discharge student loans unless you lose both your arms and a uterus in a stairbortion accident.




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