Is Law School a Losing Game?

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Drake014
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby Drake014 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:53 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
Drake014 wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
ISTAND wrote:That's the point- students aren't informed of the high-risk nature of law school because as the article points out, the schools and bar are releasing misleading information using fuzzy math. I don't think anyone is seriously advocating to prevent someone at a shot in law but rather to make schools and the bar association release accurate information.


Why is it their job to do that for you? I just don't understand this logic.

If you're smart enough to get a JD, you should be smart enough to understand that education is just a different business sector.


I'm tired of this fully informed shit. There will always be idiots. Fully informing an idiot of something still will not end in a good result. Idiots should not be able to borrow the country into economic turmoil.


I've said it once and I'll say it again: let natural selection take it's course with those people.


It doesn't work, their actions take the rest of us down because they vote and contribute to society (not always in good ways).

policestate1234
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby policestate1234 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:11 pm

Crazy that most of the posters agree with the article and some posters go as far as saying only pay sticker for hys yet everyone here either is in ls or applying to one lower than hys.

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calvmpv
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby calvmpv » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:13 pm

ISTAND wrote:To the minority who won't need to take out any loans yes this can be amusing and you can downplay everything and ignore the deceptive reports the schools publish to get naive students, promising them jobs and big salaries so they shell out the dough.


A friend of mine just recently decided that she was content with having her parents pay sticker at Cardozo and so she's done applying to any other schools. She doesn't even want to practice in NY when she graduates and I told her to research employment statistics for law students coming out of Cardozo and the importance of attending a school in the region that you want to practice yadda yadda yadda...I don't think she even bothered. I gave up even trying to get her to at least go on TLS and do a little catching up about the current state of the legal market. I kept trying to tell her that she had a decent shot of getting into some higher-ranked schools, but she asked me to stop killing her fun and said "I'm just not willing to work that hard."

To each his own...but if you don't want to "work that hard," I can think of a few better ways to spend 3 years and my parents' $$$.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:17 pm

calvmpv wrote:
ISTAND wrote:To the minority who won't need to take out any loans yes this can be amusing and you can downplay everything and ignore the deceptive reports the schools publish to get naive students, promising them jobs and big salaries so they shell out the dough.


A friend of mine just recently decided that she was content with having her parents pay sticker at Cardozo and so she's done applying to any other schools. She doesn't even want to practice in NY when she graduates and I told her to research employment statistics for law students coming out of Cardozo and the importance of attending a school in the region that you want to practice yadda yadda yadda...I don't think she even bothered. I gave up even trying to get her to at least go on TLS and do a little catching up about the current state of the legal market. I kept trying to tell her that she had a decent shot of getting into some higher-ranked schools, but she asked me to stop killing her fun and said "I'm just not willing to work that hard."

To each his own...but if you don't want to "work that hard," I can think of a few better ways to spend 3 years and my parents' $$$.


and as for fun, pretty sure Cardozo didn't make the list of top party schools lol

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JazzOne
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:19 pm

policestate1234 wrote:Crazy that most of the posters agree with the article and some posters go as far as saying only pay sticker for hys yet everyone here either is in ls or applying to one lower than hys.

Sure, but not all of us are paying.

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Drake014
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby Drake014 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:20 pm

policestate1234 wrote:Crazy that most of the posters agree with the article and some posters go as far as saying only pay sticker for hys yet everyone here either is in ls or applying to one lower than hys.


I got a nice financial aid package and scholly. Just like with other major purchases, purchase it on the cheap if you can do so. Otherwise, don't make a purchase you can't afford.

Edit: I think people on here don't realize how cool it is that when it comes to law school, if you have decent or good numbers, you can go for free and just have to pay living expenses. That's pretty damn awesome.

policestate1234
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby policestate1234 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:42 pm

Drake014 wrote:
policestate1234 wrote:Crazy that most of the posters agree with the article and some posters go as far as saying only pay sticker for hys yet everyone here either is in ls or applying to one lower than hys.


I got a nice financial aid package and scholly. Just like with other major purchases, purchase it on the cheap if you can do so. Otherwise, don't make a purchase you can't afford.

Edit: I think people on here don't realize how cool it is that when it comes to law school, if you have decent or good numbers, you can go for free and just have to pay living expenses. That's pretty damn awesome.

Just out of curiosity how much total debt will you have by the time your done with ls?

rundoxierun
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby rundoxierun » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:55 pm

policestate1234 wrote:Crazy that most of the posters agree with the article and some posters go as far as saying only pay sticker for hys yet everyone here either is in ls or applying to one lower than hys.


I wouldnt even pay sticker for HYS tbh.. 220k+ is no joke. That combined with my undergrad debt would come out to ~2,900/month for 10 years. I have a buddy paying sticker at Vandy and it hurts my heart to think about.

ISTAND
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby ISTAND » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:01 am

calvmpv wrote:
ISTAND wrote:To the minority who won't need to take out any loans yes this can be amusing and you can downplay everything and ignore the deceptive reports the schools publish to get naive students, promising them jobs and big salaries so they shell out the dough.


A friend of mine just recently decided that she was content with having her parents pay sticker at Cardozo and so she's done applying to any other schools. She doesn't even want to practice in NY when she graduates and I told her to research employment statistics for law students coming out of Cardozo

$$$.

Try reading the NYT article the point is the schools provide misleading statistics for law students so if she read that baloney she'll have the impression Cordozo will practically guarantee her a 160k salary within months of graduation. It's kind if like the tobacco companies telling people cigarettes are not harmful and 97-100% of smokers will never get
cancer then those who don't smoke ie take out loans, seeing no problem with this false reporting because you're too selfish to care about the weaker ones, quoting Darwin crap.

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well-hello-there
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby well-hello-there » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:42 am

ResolutePear wrote:I'm sorry - but even ITE, I'd pay 300k for Harvard. There's a very good reason why Harvard has a $1.7 billion endowment - and that reason doesn't include many unemployed/underpaid lawyers.

+1

tkgrrett wrote:I wouldnt even pay sticker for HYS tbh.. 220k+ is no joke. That combined with my undergrad debt would come out to ~2,900/month for 10 years. I have a buddy paying sticker at Vandy and it hurts my heart to think about.

Unless you're lazy as shit and/or worthless/unemployable, $3,000/month on ~$160,000/year is NOT a big deal. And that's just a starting salary. After 5 years, you're making what, $300,000/year? Stop with all this small-minded thinking! 10 years after law school, I'll be spending ~$2,900/month on fine dining alone.

Both guys in the article are effing idiots; the Columbia grad more so than the other guy. Just because someone has the LSAT score and GPA to get into Columbia, doesn't mean that they aren't also the laziest person you've ever met. I personally know somebody like this!!!!! After this guy graduates from a T6, his ONLY option will be some sort of government job, IF THAT! He IS and forever will be unemployable.

So yes, there are people who go to the most prestigious schools and don't find work, but that is only because they didn't try hard enough.

I do believe however that for most people, law school is a losing game.

TheTallOne0602
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby TheTallOne0602 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:50 am

well-hello-there wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:I'm sorry - but even ITE, I'd pay 300k for Harvard. There's a very good reason why Harvard has a $1.7 billion endowment - and that reason doesn't include many unemployed/underpaid lawyers.

+1

tkgrrett wrote:I wouldnt even pay sticker for HYS tbh.. 220k+ is no joke. That combined with my undergrad debt would come out to ~2,900/month for 10 years. I have a buddy paying sticker at Vandy and it hurts my heart to think about.

Unless you're lazy as shit and/or worthless/unemployable, $3,000/month on ~$160,000/year is NOT a big deal. And that's just a starting salary. After 5 years, you're making what, $300,000/year? Stop with all this small-minded thinking! 10 years after law school, I'll be spending ~$2,900/month on fine dining alone.


And if you don't go into Biglaw.... HYS basically take care of your loans for you.

thegor1987
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby thegor1987 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:58 am

well-hello-there wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:I'm sorry - but even ITE, I'd pay 300k for Harvard. There's a very good reason why Harvard has a $1.7 billion endowment - and that reason doesn't include many unemployed/underpaid lawyers.

+1

tkgrrett wrote:I wouldnt even pay sticker for HYS tbh.. 220k+ is no joke. That combined with my undergrad debt would come out to ~2,900/month for 10 years. I have a buddy paying sticker at Vandy and it hurts my heart to think about.

Unless you're lazy as shit and/or worthless/unemployable, $3,000/month on ~$160,000/year is NOT a big deal. And that's just a starting salary. After 5 years, you're making what, $300,000/year? Stop with all this small-minded thinking! 10 years after law school, I'll be spending ~$2,900/month on fine dining alone.

Both guys in the article are effing idiots; the Columbia grad more so than the other guy. Just because someone has the LSAT score and GPA to get into Columbia, doesn't mean that they aren't also the laziest person you've ever met. I personally know somebody like this!!!!! After this guy graduates from a T6, his ONLY option will be some sort of government job, IF THAT! He IS and forever will be unemployable.

So yes, there are people who go to the most prestigious schools and don't find work, but that is only because they didn't try hard enough.

I do believe however that for most people, law school is a losing game.


+1

Anyone who says HYS isn't worth sticker is a bum

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mpj_3050
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby mpj_3050 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:59 am

I would throw a child in front of a bus to attend HYS at sticker.

Miracle
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby Miracle » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:10 am

mpj_3050 wrote:I would throw a child in front of a bus to attend HYS at sticker.
mpj_3050 wrote:I would throw a child in front of a bus to attend HYS at sticker.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Miracle
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby Miracle » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:14 am

"But the legal market has always been obsessed with academic credentials, and today, few students except those with strong grade-point averages at top national and regional schools can expect a come-hither from a deep-pocketed firm. Nearly everyone else is in for a struggle."

I think we will be just fine.

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well-hello-there
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby well-hello-there » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:26 am

Miracle wrote:"But the legal market has always been obsessed with academic credentials, and today, few students except those with strong grade-point averages at top national and regional schools can expect a come-hither from a deep-pocketed firm. Nearly everyone else is in for a struggle."

I think we will be just fine.

Of course we will. I take issue however with the recurring theme on TLS forums that HYS isn't even a sure bet these days. Yes it is. Saying otherwise is just crazy-talk.

policestate1234
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby policestate1234 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:35 am

well-hello-there wrote:
Miracle wrote:"But the legal market has always been obsessed with academic credentials, and today, few students except those with strong grade-point averages at top national and regional schools can expect a come-hither from a deep-pocketed firm. Nearly everyone else is in for a struggle."

I think we will be just fine.

Of course we will. I take issue however with the recurring theme on TLS forums that HYS isn't even a sure bet these days. Yes it is. Saying otherwise is just crazy-talk.

*gets grade pwn in ls*

*gets economy pwn*

*ends up at xoxo and jdu*

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well-hello-there
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby well-hello-there » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:43 am

policestate1234 wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:
Miracle wrote:"But the legal market has always been obsessed with academic credentials, and today, few students except those with strong grade-point averages at top national and regional schools can expect a come-hither from a deep-pocketed firm. Nearly everyone else is in for a struggle."

I think we will be just fine.

Of course we will. I take issue however with the recurring theme on TLS forums that HYS isn't even a sure bet these days. Yes it is. Saying otherwise is just crazy-talk.

*gets grade pwn in ls*

*gets economy pwn*

*ends up at xoxo and jdu*

my bad. point of clarification--it's only a sure bet if you actually show up to > half of your classes at those schools. If you don't even bother to show up to class, then your odds of winning dwindle to 50/50.

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kk19131
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby kk19131 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:47 am

policestate1234 wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:
Miracle wrote:"But the legal market has always been obsessed with academic credentials, and today, few students except those with strong grade-point averages at top national and regional schools can expect a come-hither from a deep-pocketed firm. Nearly everyone else is in for a struggle."

I think we will be just fine.

Of course we will. I take issue however with the recurring theme on TLS forums that HYS isn't even a sure bet these days. Yes it is. Saying otherwise is just crazy-talk.

*gets grade pwn in ls*

*gets economy pwn*

*ends up at xoxo and jdu*



"I went to Harvard and now have 200k in loans and can't find a decent job. Law school is a scam!"

:lol:

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JG Hall
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby JG Hall » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:00 am

well-hello-there wrote:Both guys in the article are effing idiots; the Columbia grad more so than the other guy. Just because someone has the LSAT score and GPA to get into Columbia, doesn't mean that they aren't also the laziest person you've ever met. I personally know somebody like this!!!!! After this guy graduates from a T6, his ONLY option will be some sort of government job, IF THAT! He IS and forever will be unemployable.

So yes, there are people who go to the most prestigious schools and don't find work, but that is only because they didn't try hard enough.

I do believe however that for most people, law school is a losing game.

He was a transfer from Florida, so I'd say he efforted pretty damn hard.

policestate1234
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby policestate1234 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:06 am

JG Hall wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:Both guys in the article are effing idiots; the Columbia grad more so than the other guy. Just because someone has the LSAT score and GPA to get into Columbia, doesn't mean that they aren't also the laziest person you've ever met. I personally know somebody like this!!!!! After this guy graduates from a T6, his ONLY option will be some sort of government job, IF THAT! He IS and forever will be unemployable.

So yes, there are people who go to the most prestigious schools and don't find work, but that is only because they didn't try hard enough.

I do believe however that for most people, law school is a losing game.

He was a transfer from Florida, so I'd say he efforted pretty damn hard.

Intresting because his linkln profile says nyu law and Columbia law

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JG Hall
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby JG Hall » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:08 am

policestate1234 wrote:
JG Hall wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:Both guys in the article are effing idiots; the Columbia grad more so than the other guy. Just because someone has the LSAT score and GPA to get into Columbia, doesn't mean that they aren't also the laziest person you've ever met. I personally know somebody like this!!!!! After this guy graduates from a T6, his ONLY option will be some sort of government job, IF THAT! He IS and forever will be unemployable.

So yes, there are people who go to the most prestigious schools and don't find work, but that is only because they didn't try hard enough.

I do believe however that for most people, law school is a losing game.

He was a transfer from Florida, so I'd say he efforted pretty damn hard.

Intresting because his linkln profile says nyu law and Columbia law

Currently getting a tax LLM from NYU, which is also in the linkedin profile.
Last edited by JG Hall on Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

policestate1234
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby policestate1234 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:11 am

JG Hall wrote:
policestate1234 wrote:
JG Hall wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:Both guys in the article are effing idiots; the Columbia grad more so than the other guy. Just because someone has the LSAT score and GPA to get into Columbia, doesn't mean that they aren't also the laziest person you've ever met. I personally know somebody like this!!!!! After this guy graduates from a T6, his ONLY option will be some sort of government job, IF THAT! He IS and forever will be unemployable.

So yes, there are people who go to the most prestigious schools and don't find work, but that is only because they didn't try hard enough.

I do believe however that for most people, law school is a losing game.

He was a transfer from Florida, so I'd say he efforted pretty damn hard.

Intresting because his linkln profile says nyu law and Columbia law

Currently getting a tax LLLM from NYU, which is also in the linkedin profile.
I guess he decided to go double or nothing at the ls gambling table.

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kk19131
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby kk19131 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:12 am

policestate1234 wrote: I guess he decided to go double or nothing at the ls gambling table.


:lol:

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glitched
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Re: Is Law School a Losing Game?

Postby glitched » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:14 am

AreJay711 wrote:I've said it once and I'll say it again: let natural selection take it's course with those people.


loll humans haven't abided to the rules of natural selection for centuries if not millenniums.

and furthermore, i think in at least america, considering the low birth rates from highly educated parents (this claim is an assumption based on the fact that it takes at least four years for a college degree and another few more for a professional degree, a "highly educated" person would have less time to reproduce. Data could prove me wrong if anyone has it.), natural selection actually favors the "idiots."

just wanted to randomly chime in. haha enjoy the more relevant discussion everyone else.




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