Is Law School a Losing Game? Forum

[DoubleChecks]

Did you even read the article? It clearly states he got his JD from Florida and his school loans from undergrad and his masters.

"Jason Bohn, who received his J.D. from the University of Florida, is earning $33 an hour as a legal temp while strapped to more than $200,000 in loans, nearly all of which he accumulated as an undergraduate and while working on a master's degree at Columbia University."

i could be wrong, but i think they edited the original article because it was misleading and there were some complaints all around

You're not wrong.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what are you guys talking about? The original article did not state that Bohn when to UF. That's the entire genesis of the controversy. See:

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: January 11, 2011

An earlier version of this article misstated the educational history of Jason Bohn, a recent law school graduate. While Mr. Bohn took classes at Columbia Law School, his law degree is from the University of Florida. And while nearly all of his student loan debt was accumulated at Columbia University, it was incurred while he was an undergraduate and while working on a master’s degree, and not at Columbia Law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html, scroll down.

Also see: http://abovethelaw.com/2011/01/a-notabl ... aw-school/

uh, im even more confused now bronte. let me recap what went down so far from my point of view:

hazel eyes says bohn's linkedln is misleading...how he did not graduate from columbia law and how the article is misleading

istand asks if hazel even read the article, since the article says bohn received his JD from UF

now this was because the original article was misleading and made it seem as if he graduated from CLS (the links and controversy you reference)...so it was edited. hazel saw original, istand saw edited...which led to my comment on how i thought that it was cause they edited the original to reflect reality.

sundance confirms my comment.

then your comment lol. sundance and i never said the original article said bohn went to UF. in fact, we said the opposite.

[ResolutePear]

This thread has nothing more to contribute to my life.

[robotclubmember]

lol

[jaestro]

I feel like if things remain the same in twenty years, we need to be giving our children better advice. First, only be willing to take out loans (if at all) at their final academic institution. It is crazy if people have to take out loans for college, then a masters program, and then law school (unless you decide you want to stay in school your whole life, finish with fifteen degrees and laugh at the loan agencies). I think the SAT, LSAT or whatever is exponentially more important than what it once was, and good parents should let their kids in high school ditch class for months at a time to study for the SAT.

Further,I think we need a new poll that states how many former prospective lawyers are brushing up on their biology? My brother is a doctor, and I am beginning to feel like an idiot. Sure, his loans may have been bigger, and he looked like an old man when he was in school. But after all of his BS, he is guaranteed a job anywhere in the country, and can change jobs whenever he wants. He does still work a decent amount of hours, but the stress has to be much less. It is truly a job where all you have to do is be smart and study, pass and be rewarded for life.

The good news, quoting from that documentary on the CA bar, is that law is the only profession where the pessimists out perform the optimists. So maybe all of us doubters are actually pursuing the right profession?

[gwuorbust]

This thread has nothing more to contribute to my life.

[NoJob]

I do have a question.

If students from T-14 not all, but most or some score these summer associates jobs that pay $3000-3500 a week(if it's true that summer associates earn that much), why aren't these bright young individuals living in accordance with student conditions, and instead of doing "whatever" with their money pay down their debt? Something isn't right here!

Very few actually make that much. Especially now.


I know T14 who did shitlaw jobs and volunteering to avoid the resume gap last summer.

[NoJob]

GULC is misrepresenting its employment statistics?

I wouldn't say they are - they are probably within the guidelines when they report. However, I would guess that if you went up and down the hundreds of graduates per year they are churning out and ask if they think they are in the type of job they thought they would be in after graduation, a decent percentage would report back with a "no." The classes there are huge and being below median is not a good place to be coming out of there from what I have heard.

"Within guidelines" doesn't mean it isn't misrepresented when the guidelines are as weak as they are. Counting people who have a 6-week temp job looking at admissions applications as "employed" seems like misrepresentation to me.

Amen especially if they give them that job for that purpose. Not outright but suspect.

[NoJob]

Cardozo was just an example. Albany as a TTT $100,000+ . The numbers just don't add up. I'm sorry

You think that less than 9% of their grads who graduated in 2008 making over $100k doesn't add up?

Surprisingly high in my opinion.

[dabears1]

My company just hired a T2 law grad as a marketing compliance assistant.... prob 35k/year.

Wow, options must not be too "plentiful" out there.

[NCtoDC]

http://thebellyofthebeast.wordpress.com ... deception/

The latest ramblings concerning the NYT article.

[AreJay711]

I feel like if things remain the same in twenty years, we need to be giving our children better advice. First, only be willing to take out loans (if at all) at their final academic institution. It is crazy if people have to take out loans for college, then a masters program, and then law school (unless you decide you want to stay in school your whole life, finish with fifteen degrees and laugh at the loan agencies). I think the SAT, LSAT or whatever is exponentially more important than what it once was, and good parents should let their kids in high school ditch class for months at a time to study for the SAT.

Further,I think we need a new poll that states how many former prospective lawyers are brushing up on their biology? My brother is a doctor, and I am beginning to feel like an idiot. Sure, his loans may have been bigger, and he looked like an old man when he was in school. But after all of his BS, he is guaranteed a job anywhere in the country, and can change jobs whenever he wants. He does still work a decent amount of hours, but the stress has to be much less. It is truly a job where all you have to do is be smart and study, pass and be rewarded for life.

The good news, quoting from that documentary on the CA bar, is that law is the only profession where the pessimists out perform the optimists. So maybe all of us doubters are actually pursuing the right profession?

I don't think the choice between being a doctor and lawyer is there for most people and if it is then you are probably perusing both for the wrong reasons. I think the real fallout is that many people were blinded (by themselves) to believe that practicing law is a sure way to a big paycheck. In reality, especially ITE, it is not. Once you consider debt, law isn't much better than other fields really since any field (including those that don't even need college degrees) can lead big money for people who excel at what they do, which is necessary as a law student and associate to make big money in law.

[JazzOne]

My company just hired a T2 law grad as a marketing compliance assistant.... prob 35k/year.

Wow, options must not be too "plentiful" out there.

He's lucky.

[txadv11]

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The next semester begins April 5, 2011 with an application deadline
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and debate the law from the same casebooks used at major law schools.
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where students participate in live law school classes, answering and
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Classroom participation with professors obviously is an important
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low.



1. Enroll in classes (I guess I'm gonna be accepted despite applying there)
2. Pay 30,000 total for the four year program
3. Increase my "e-rep"
4. Be $170,000+, less in debt that the people in the article.
5. Profit

[HarlandBassett]

This thread has nothing more to contribute to my life.

.

[Borhas]

the comment about closing law schools/limiting enrollments would run afoul of antitrust laws caught my attention. why is it ok for the AMA to regulate med schools in this way, but the ABA would be precluded by antitrust rules? sounds fishy to me. the ABA should restore some prestige and integrity to its profession, and here is step 1- take the bottom 50 law schools (by whatever metric the ABA wants to use) out back and shoot them. then tell law schools 101-150 that it's open season on them. after a 5-10 year period the top 25 performers of these schools (again, pick your metric, but i say LEGITIMATE job reports for grads are a good start) will be allowed to remain open.

then, strictly limit the numbers of students law schools can enroll, not unlike the approach the AMA takes.

the profession could survive on 125 law schools.

let's step outside the box of supply/demand and fix what's obviously broken. we do it all the time, and the market endures, so please don't warn me of the imminent demise of the free market if these measures were taken. i don't really care. i'd rather have a job.

while I admire your direct approach, it's probably easier to reform financial aid so that some schools don't get to have their students' loans subsidized. That would probably avoid the anti-trust issues too (though WTF do I know...)

[MrSparkle]

Article from 2007: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1190407 ... op_emailed

Essentially the same picture

[ATR]

Article from 2007: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1190407 ... op_emailed

Essentially the same picture

And that was before the financial markets meltdown in '08.

[txadv11]

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... orgiveness

[theregulator]

Correction: January 16, 2011


An article last Sunday about law schools misstated the educational history of Jason Bohn, a recent law school graduate.While Mr. Bohn took classes at Columbia Law School, his law degree is from the University of Florida. And while nearly all of his student loan debt was accumulated at Columbia University, it was incurred while he was an undergraduate and while working on a master’s degree, and not at Columbia Law.

[HarlandBassett]

Debt-Laden Law Grad Featured in NYT Article on Perils of Law School Suspected of Murder

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/06/debt-lad ... of-murder/

[SchopenhauerFTW]

Debt-Laden Law Grad Featured in NYT Article on Perils of Law School Suspected of Murder

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/06/debt-lad ... of-murder/

Holy shit.

[HarlandBassett]

Debt-Laden Law Grad Featured in NYT Article on Perils of Law School Suspected of Murder

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/06/debt-lad ... of-murder/

Holy shit.

[piccolittle]

Debt-Laden Law Grad Featured in NYT Article on Perils of Law School Suspected of Murder

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/06/debt-lad ... of-murder/

Holy shit.

Wait, are we sure this is the same guy? Couldn't there be multiple Jason Bohns in the same city? If it's not him, I feel pretty bad for the guy - now he'll pretty much never get a non-contract attorney job.

[jas1503]

Jason Bohn's story is such a depressing one. His linkedin is even worse, especially since I'd give my left testis right now for his SIPA Masters from Columbia.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Instead, Mr. Wallerstein rented a spacious apartment. He also spent a month studying in the South of France and a month in Prague — all on borrowed money. There were cost-of-living loans, and tuition of about $33,000 a year. Later came a $15,000 loan to cover months of studying for the bar.

Today, his best guess is that he should be sending $2,000 to $3,000 a month in total, to lenders that include Wells Fargo, Citibank and Sallie Mae.

“There are a bunch of others,” he says. “I’m not really good at keeping records.”

Mr. Wallerstein didn’t know it at the time, but Thomas Jefferson leads the nation’s law schools in at least one category: 95 percent of students graduate with debt, the highest rate in the U.S. News rankings.

The reason, Ms. Kransberger says, is that many Thomas Jefferson students are either immigrants or, like Mr. Wallerstein, the first person in their family to get a law degree; statistically those are both groups with generally little or modest means. When Ms. Kransberger meets applicants engaged in what she calls “magical thinking” about their finances, she advises them to defer for a year or two until they are on stronger footing.

Idiot. I don't know what to say other than this example is the utter extreme case.