Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

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los blancos
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Re: Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

Postby los blancos » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:52 am

Desert Fox wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:Ehh idk. The 25th and 75th numbers make it look like Michigan could manipulate their numbers more if they wanted. I think they do some things that I know I wouldn't do if I was making the decisions -- like giving me a scholarship when I was already in ED (though I was obviously happy).


The WL a lot more people with good numbers than they do to people with mediocre numbers. It's YP. There is no reason why 3.8+/169 almost all get in, when 3.8/172 get half waitlisted.

They also have the third highest acceptance rate of any t14 despite also having the third worst numbers. They aren't being holistic, they are desperate.



Speaking of numbers, WTF is up with Duke's ridiculous jump for c/o 2013? Apparently only HYSB had lower acceptance rates. And when before has Duke beaten UVa (of all schools) with its numbers?

Makes me wonder how the hell I got in...

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Bosque
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Re: Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

Postby Bosque » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:31 am

los blancos wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:Ehh idk. The 25th and 75th numbers make it look like Michigan could manipulate their numbers more if they wanted. I think they do some things that I know I wouldn't do if I was making the decisions -- like giving me a scholarship when I was already in ED (though I was obviously happy).


The WL a lot more people with good numbers than they do to people with mediocre numbers. It's YP. There is no reason why 3.8+/169 almost all get in, when 3.8/172 get half waitlisted.

They also have the third highest acceptance rate of any t14 despite also having the third worst numbers. They aren't being holistic, they are desperate.



Speaking of numbers, WTF is up with Duke's ridiculous jump for c/o 2013? Apparently only HYSB had lower acceptance rates. And when before has Duke beaten UVa (of all schools) with its numbers?

Makes me wonder how the hell I got in...


I would say that it might be because we won the national championship, but that didn't happen until after the application deadline. I guess it might be a consequence of having a small class size in a booming period for applications? How are the other small class schools doing?

End of the day, I haven't been paying attention since I came here. Since enrolling, all I really care about are employment stats (and not even those now that I have a job). I am not a member of the administration at a law school, so my success is not measured by these stats. I love my education so far, I love my job, and I love that the name Duke is going to be on my transcript. I could care less how the hypothetical (and quite nonexistent) impartial observer evaluates my school's worth in comparison to other law schools. This discussion should just be a curiosity, not a measure of your self worth. These schools are close enough that no one should be picking based on a perceived total score of prestige, but rather on their individual differences (e.g. do you like a small or a large school). I think everyone (not just Quaker) needs to chill the hell out.

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fatduck
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Re: Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

Postby fatduck » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:40 pm

according to jersey shore it's MVPD. N seems to be a tier below.

dooood
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Re: Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

Postby dooood » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:40 pm

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Last edited by dooood on Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:42 pm

dooood wrote:
quakeroats wrote:As for Michigan, it's been on it's way out for 30 years. Right now it places about as well as Cornell. In another 30 years it will be Boston College without a major market.


In case you missed these, Nostradamus: http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... aw-schools


cool, first of all this will not stop quakeroats' anti michigan trolling. second of all, you fail because everyone who will read this post already knows this information. GTFO

FiveSermon
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Re: Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:44 pm

Desert Fox wrote:So are Boalt and Cornell.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:04 am

This thread should serve as a warning to people on these boards. Extrapolating large over-arching themes about schools from one years worth of data makes you look like an idiot.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:05 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:This thread should serve as a warning to people on these boards. Extrapolating large over-arching themes about schools from one years worth of data makes you look like an idiot.

showNprove
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Re: Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

Postby showNprove » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:02 pm

quakeroats wrote:It brings in many fewer issues than assessments scores with 30% response rates and poor question phrasing. Outside of Yale-type problems I'd say it's a pretty good measure.

I know I'm about 2.5 months late on this, but these critiques are over-hyped. First, Leiter's problem with the question-phrasing is applicable only to the Peer Assessment scores, and his problem with the response rate is applicable only to the Lawyers/Judges Assessment scores. You bundle all the criticism together and apply all of it to both in order to discredit them to a larger degree--probably because you don't like the results (Duke at 11).

Second, Leiter's question-phrasing criticism is that faculty lists are not included with surveys distributed to the "peers." But neither are placement stats. Or revenue. Or student accomplishments. Or the size of the library. If the survey was about which faculty was best, then yes, Leiter could legitimately argue that a list of a school's top professors should be included with the survey--but it's not about which faculty is best. The survey is about which school is best, and there are so many more factors that should be taken into account. The fact that U.S. News does not provide all relevant information to the survey takers--which would frankly be impossible anyway--does not flatly discredit the results of the survey. Including cherry-picked information would actually skew the results by emphasizing only one subset of all the information that should be taken into account--which of course is exactly what Leiter wants: in his view, Chicago has a better faculty than Harvard and Stanford, and I'm sure he'd love for U.S. News to come out that way.

Third, a low response rate is not, in and of itself, a discredit to the results of the survey. A sample of 600 respondents is a very large sample, regardless of the size of the population. Assuming no biases in the survey, a sample of 600 is going to yield results with a with a very low margin of error at a high confidence level (95%).

Leiter's strongest criticism of the Lawyers/Judges survey is not response rate--it's (potential) geographical bias. Leiter claims that lawyers and judges from New York City are more likely to respond than lawyers from other regions. Again, I'm sure Leiter is concerned with this potential bias principally because Columbia is rated higher than Chicago. I'm not sure whether this bias exists, but if it does, then I feel bad for NYU students looking for jobs outside of New York: Virginia is already consistently rated higher and Michigan is already consistently rated as high or higher. If mostly New York City lawyers are responding, they must not be NYU alumni.

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alexonfyre
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Re: Are Duke and Northwestern on par with MVP...

Postby alexonfyre » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:26 pm

fatduck wrote:according to jersey shore it's MVPD. N seems to be a tier below.


For those without an account, here is the full Jersey Shore Rankings:
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