Totally Irresponsible?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
guinness
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:19 pm

Totally Irresponsible?

Postby guinness » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:24 am

I've been slaving at a job for a few years that I hate but pays very well. I've saved quite a bit and am hoping that when scores come out I'll be able to snag a full ride at a T3 (shouldn't be much of a stretch === Hopefully).

Once admitted / full ride in hand, I am considering throwing up the big proverbial middle finger at work and spending the time in between work and school living out my life time dream, backpacking Europe. This would cost me ~10,000 which I could easily pay for with my part of my savings. It wouldn't, however, leave me with a ton left over for living expenses in school. I know the realities of a T3 and that taking on debt for living expenses is the WORST but will 10k really make a difference? Work has gotten to a point that I just can't bare for another day, let alone another 6 months. I'll grit my teeth and get through a few months in spending lock down mode.

Any thoughts?

User avatar
Shooter
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:39 am

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby Shooter » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:26 am

Live the dream.

Livethedreamlivethedreamlivethedream.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby Grizz » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:34 am

Retake LSAT and do better than TTT?

User avatar
fundamentallybroken
Posts: 663
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:52 am

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby fundamentallybroken » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:36 am

Shooter wrote:Live the dream.

Livethedreamlivethedreamlivethedream.

User avatar
Shooter
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:39 am

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby Shooter » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:37 am

rad law wrote:Retake LSAT and do better than TTT?


Lol, I don't think you are doing it right...

guinness
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:19 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby guinness » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:59 am

Shooter wrote:
rad law wrote:Retake LSAT and do better than TTT?


Lol, I don't think you are doing it right...


Retake is a possibility for sure. But with my GPA (mid 3's) I'm not going to get any cash from T14...ever haha.

User avatar
artichoke
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby artichoke » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:03 am

guinness wrote:I've been slaving at a job for a few years that I hate but pays very well. I've saved quite a bit and am hoping that when scores come out I'll be able to snag a full ride at a T3 (shouldn't be much of a stretch === Hopefully).

Once admitted / full ride in hand, I am considering throwing up the big proverbial middle finger at work and spending the time in between work and school living out my life time dream, backpacking Europe. This would cost me ~10,000 which I could easily pay for with my part of my savings. It wouldn't, however, leave me with a ton left over for living expenses in school. I know the realities of a T3 and that taking on debt for living expenses is the WORST but will 10k really make a difference? Work has gotten to a point that I just can't bare for another day, let alone another 6 months. I'll grit my teeth and get through a few months in spending lock down mode.

Any thoughts?


My thoughts:

You're going to take out at loan while attending a TTT for living expenses?? Who do you think will grant you this loan? Why the hell would you spend your savings doing something totally unproductive and then take out a fucking loan (providing you could actually get one) to pay for living expenses? That.is.fucking.nuts.

On the other hand, you're going to a TTT so you're probably fucked anyway... So I would go for it.

User avatar
fundamentallybroken
Posts: 663
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:52 am

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby fundamentallybroken » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:08 am

artichoke wrote:
guinness wrote:I've been slaving at a job for a few years that I hate but pays very well. I've saved quite a bit and am hoping that when scores come out I'll be able to snag a full ride at a T3 (shouldn't be much of a stretch === Hopefully).

Once admitted / full ride in hand, I am considering throwing up the big proverbial middle finger at work and spending the time in between work and school living out my life time dream, backpacking Europe. This would cost me ~10,000 which I could easily pay for with my part of my savings. It wouldn't, however, leave me with a ton left over for living expenses in school. I know the realities of a T3 and that taking on debt for living expenses is the WORST but will 10k really make a difference? Work has gotten to a point that I just can't bare for another day, let alone another 6 months. I'll grit my teeth and get through a few months in spending lock down mode.

Any thoughts?


My thoughts:

You're going to take out at loan while attending a TTT for living expenses?? Who do you think will grant you this loan? Why the hell would you spend your savings doing something totally unproductive and then take out a fucking loan (providing you could actually get one) to pay for living expenses? That.is.fucking.nuts.

On the other hand, you're going to a TTT so you're probably fucked anyway... So I would go for it.


I gotta ask - if one is going full ride (or near) at a TTT, but they don't have savings (or enough to live on), how else do they survive? Schools account for room and board in their budgets, which are used for maximum loan purposes, yes?

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:10 am

artichoke wrote:
guinness wrote:I've been slaving at a job for a few years that I hate but pays very well. I've saved quite a bit and am hoping that when scores come out I'll be able to snag a full ride at a T3 (shouldn't be much of a stretch === Hopefully).

Once admitted / full ride in hand, I am considering throwing up the big proverbial middle finger at work and spending the time in between work and school living out my life time dream, backpacking Europe. This would cost me ~10,000 which I could easily pay for with my part of my savings. It wouldn't, however, leave me with a ton left over for living expenses in school. I know the realities of a T3 and that taking on debt for living expenses is the WORST but will 10k really make a difference? Work has gotten to a point that I just can't bare for another day, let alone another 6 months. I'll grit my teeth and get through a few months in spending lock down mode.

Any thoughts?


My thoughts:

You're going to take out at loan while attending a TTT for living expenses?? Who do you think will grant you this loan? Why the hell would you spend your savings doing something totally unproductive and then take out a fucking loan (providing you could actually get one) to pay for living expenses? That.is.fucking.nuts.

On the other hand, you're going to a TTT so you're probably fucked anyway... So I would go for it.



Wut? You can take out loans for up to the cost of attending (COA), which includes living expenses. TTT v T14 doesn't matter at all in terms of your ability to take out loans.

To answer the OP's question: yes, that would be totally irresponsible.

TheOcho
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:46 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby TheOcho » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:22 am

I personally wouldn't spend 10k (and practically all my savings) for a glorified vacation. On the other hand, you might never have the opportunity to do this again. I assume plenty of people attending their 1L don't have an abundance of savings, so you wouldn't be the only one if you decided on the vacation. I'd be more worried about graduating from a TTT.

User avatar
sundance95
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby sundance95 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:29 am

If you've saved, then you are able to take time off to really master the LSAT and do better than a T3.

jdhonest
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:31 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby jdhonest » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:31 am

No, it is not totally irresponsible, and I strongly suspect that the posters indicating otherwise are 1) young and inexperienced 2) way too high strung and 3) not the type of people you should be listening too.

If you can achieve your dream by spending 10k of money that you have saved, then I say you do it. Life is way too short and full of worthless crap that you will be forced to do to give up the things that you really want to do. As someone with WE, you quickly realize that you will be working the rest of your life to pay for something, e.g. a mortgage, cars, children, rent, bills. And while it is certainly prudent to minimize unnecessary costs, you also come to realize that you can't spend money when you're dead and when you look back at life, you're far more likely to regret the year of your life that you could have spent living the dream but didn't than the $10,000. You absolutely will, especially if you become a lawyer.

Now I suspect that some of the above posters will come to feast on my post. They'll point out that maybe they're not to young, or that my way of thinking has caused yada yada yada. They'll point out how reasoning can be taken to the extreme to produce from absurd consequences. Listen to them not. Instead, I want you to ask yourself the following: when your time on Earth is nearing it's end, will you find yourself regretting having not taken that year off, or starting the rest of your working career (as a lawyer) with 10K less than what you could have had.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:47 am

jdhonest wrote:No, it is not totally irresponsible, and I strongly suspect that the posters indicating otherwise are 1) young and inexperienced 2) way too high strung and 3) not the type of people you should be listening too.


Cool thesis statement brah.

User avatar
artichoke
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby artichoke » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:49 am

If your lifetime dream is backpacking europe, then blow all your money doing it and call your life good.

jaestro
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:50 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby jaestro » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:01 am

Hmm...T3 with a full ride, I think, regardless, if you feel you deserve a vacation, take it. Hopefully or unfortunately, once employed you may not get that opportunity again until retirement. Is there possibly a middle ground, (find a new job, also vacation, so maybe you can enter with 5k saved). It would also be good to spend this time just getting prepared mentally for law school. If you straght up dominate your first year, you will be in good shape. If not, I would consider working good paying jobs in the summer, and part time during 2L, and 3L (and crazy networking). Then your debt will be minuscule, and at least you won't be burdened with loans.
Then again, there will come a time post graduation, where you will be thinking you wish you had ten K around.
And of course you'll get a loan. It's good business.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:26 am

Not a terrible idea, I mean, you only live once. You should try to live it up, but 10k is a lot of money. Maybe try and do it for less than that? Or backpack somewhere cheaper, like SE Asia? (SE Asia is flippin awesome and would be a way better experience than hanging out with Jean-Francois and Hans over in Europe, seriously. And it would be half the price.)

Also, if you think you can do better than your current LSAT, retake. Your "Full ride at T3 v. Nothing at T14" breakdown is a false dichotomy.

User avatar
Pizon
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:53 am

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby Pizon » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:05 am

If it's really your life dream, there should be no debate. Fucking do it.

User avatar
ahduth
Posts: 2468
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:55 am

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby ahduth » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:34 am

jdhonest wrote:Instead, I want you to ask yourself the following: when your time on Earth is nearing it's end, will you find yourself regretting having not taken that year off, or starting the rest of your working career (as a lawyer) with 10K less than what you could have had.


Yeah, I mostly agree with this. 10k is chump change in the grand scheme of things, and it sounds like you have a trip lined up that will be exciting and memorable. Like some of the other people here, I'd be more worried about going to a lower tier school. It sounds like you have work experience doing something that's challenging enough to pay well. And if you test well, with a mid-3s GPA, there could be some cash forthcoming from a place like Northwestern.

But yeah, unless your personal mythology rewards denying one's self fun times, I'd probably take the trip.

guinness
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:19 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby guinness » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:40 am

I think there is a misconception that 10k would be my entire savings...

I will be around an 1/8...

boushi
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:06 am

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby boushi » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am

For what it's worth, I worked as a legal assistant at a top firm in NYC for over two years and, knowing I ultimately wanted to end up in law school, I found I basically had three options towards the end of my second year: (1) Keep working there a few more years (maybe pay off UG loans and save more money); (2) Go to law school ASAP; or (3) Spend much/most of my savings getting life experience that would be impossible after law school. With a decent amount in the bank from living frugally and taking on way too much OT and a pretty strong LSAT & GPA in the bag, I opted for the latter, knowing it's opportunity cost in pure financial terms was large. And I haven't regretted it at all.

At the time I chose to quit and spend two years abroad doing a mix of independent consulting, studying, and just traveling, it was very telling to me that not one person -- partner, associate, staffer, etc. -- at previous law firm said anything like, "Well, can't you see you are being financially irresponsible by not paying off all your UG loans and effectively raising your future LS debt burden? You will have plenty of time to learn new languages and travel after you become a lawyer, after all!" In fact, all of the lawyers said something to the effect of, "Wow, sounds great. I really wish I did something like that before settling down." You could chalk that up to people just being blandly supportive, but they were genuine responses from close colleagues.

Sometimes I see people dissecting decisions like putting off law school to travel and pursue personal interests purely in terms of foregone salaries and such and it seems to miss an important point. For many people (especially the type of hardworking, future lawyers who are overrepresented on this forum), you will end up with far more wealth than you will ever need to spend in your life. At some point -- it might be at 40 years old, it might be 50, it might be 60 -- you will probably be doing some serious introspection about the marginal value of each dollar at that point versus when you were young. The vast majority of wealthy people I know (and I come from a lower-middle class family myself), seem to ultimately conclude that the diminishing value of future dollars would have justified spending more time and money on themselves when they were young and relatively free to do things like spend years in Europe, etc. And I'm no bohemian free-spirit living on a trust fund or anything, so I realize there is a very real risk of choosing too much "personal exploration" as an excuse for avoiding responsibilities and such, but I'd say the OP can probably find experiences more than worth 10 grand and a year abroad.

By the way, I should also point out that I spent a lot of my time traveling taking formal language classes -- brushing up on a language I became proficient in in college and learning another -- and would probably also urge the OP to spend some significant time in a few places rather than just hostel jump around the entire time. I am, moreover, completely confident that the networking I've done abroad and the language skills I've honed will be extremely useful later on as an attorney.

(Also for what it's worth, I'm applying now and I don't think my experiences have really affected my apps in anyway. But I'm still abroad now and just got an unexpected opportunity to work on a book related to my college senior thesis. Looks like I'll be working on that right up until the start of school in the fall, and I couldn't be more thrilled with the surprise chance to research something I am truly interested in publish something about.)
Last edited by boushi on Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:23 am

guinness wrote:I think there is a misconception that 10k would be my entire savings...

I will be around an 1/8...


Well I can see how people would get that misconception.
This would cost me ~10,000 which I could easily pay for with my part of my savings. It wouldn't, however, leave me with a ton left over for living expenses in school.

krad
Posts: 1897
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:33 am

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby krad » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:25 am

romothesavior wrote:Not a terrible idea, I mean, you only live once. You should try to live it up, but 10k is a lot of money. Maybe try and do it for less than that? Or backpack somewhere cheaper, like SE Asia? (SE Asia is flippin awesome and would be a way better experience than hanging out with Jean-Francois and Hans over in Europe, seriously. And it would be half the price.)

Also, if you think you can do better than your current LSAT, retake. Your "Full ride at T3 v. Nothing at T14" breakdown is a false dichotomy.


TITCR 100%

You can backpack for as little or as much $ as you want to spend... Been there, done that, and I didn't spend $10k. FWIW My old roomie did SE Asia, loved it, and it was dirt cheap.

jaestro
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:50 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby jaestro » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:29 am

I think there is a misconception that 10k would be my entire savings...

I will be around an 1/8...>QUOTE

Dude, you have 80K saved up. You misled us. Go. If you goto T3 with full ride, you already have enough saved for living expenses. You should consider a higher ranked school. It is just a matter of being 50K in debt from a higher school, or coming out with no debt. Either way, financially, you will not be burdened nearly as bad as most people.

I wonder how many of us prospective lawyers would not even bother to go with 80K?

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:34 am

Based on the vibe on TLS, once you go to law school your hopes and dreams will be crushed anyway so you likely won't even be able to wish you had went backpacking from your pit of despair. Plus, you can buy a lot of booze and cheap prostitutes with 10K to ease your suffering after you graduate from a festering TTT and find yourself unemployed and homeless.

In seriousness though, I would save my money and even borrow for COL so you have better liquidity coming out of law school in case you find yourself unemployed for a while but I try to avoid risk where I can. You could make it by for 2 years with 80K.

Edit: And if you find a job out of school you can dump your savings into your loans with only paying the interest for 3, 2, and 1 years accordingly.
Last edited by AreJay711 on Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

nyulawguy
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:56 pm

Re: Totally Irresponsible?

Postby nyulawguy » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:36 am

My grandfather once told me, "You are never going to lie on your deathbed and wish you worked more. You will think of your friends, your experiences, and the dreams that you accomplished. Also, you will think of what you wish you had done. Keep that last part short and live your life."




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], MSNbot Media and 5 guests