Top Law Schools

thecilent wrote:

ahduth wrote:You guys are really going to read a bunch of crap before school? I was planning on just walking in there and sorting it. That's still my plan, but is there a list somewhere of what all these abbreviations are?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=18478
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =3&t=26949

ETA: Those probs don't even help much. GTM = Getting to Maybe; PLS = Planet Law School; LEEWS = Idk even know law exam something writing system? lulz; what other abbreviations don't you know? WSJ = wall street journal mhmm

I know the WSJ lol (it's turned into this crappy Murdoch tabloid tbh, or maybe I'm just biased...). You could read some business books if you wanted: Too Big to Fail by Sorkin and Den of Thieves by Stewart come to mind if you want some history that talks about how lawyers were involved in crazy corporate stuff. There's no way to actually educate yourself about economics and politics over a summer, I just wouldn't worry about it.

One thing I might do is... turn off the TV. That thing is a evil brain killer. Especially if you watch any of these goddamn "news" channels - that stuff is poison for independent thought. I cannot see myself being a good lawyer if I was caught up in all the blatant bias you see on there.

But my question was actually aimed at all the crazy cheat sheets and stuff that people are apparently using. Do people seriously read something called "Planet Law School" to try and prepare? In the T14? I haven't been in school for a long while I guess - I was sort of thinking it was like anything else: show up, assess, kill, have some drinks, leave. Should I be freaking out or something?

thecilent wrote:

megaTTTron wrote:

AreJay711 wrote:Do you think there is any benefit to reading GTM over the holidays or should I read it closer to the semester. I'm a Michigan summer starter.

I liked PLS + LEEWS better than GTM. PLS now, LEEWS right before you start. But I think I'm in the minority on TLS with this one.

Ew. PLS is horrible. I really don't know how you could like it. I read half and threw it out - literally.

Haha. I loved it! So much in fact that when I gave all my supps to my 1L buddy, it's the only one I kept. No joke. And the LEEWS Primer.

leeronalda wrote:Atlas Shrugged

+1

I hear a lot of people saying that some background in economic philosophy is crucial for LS. Im a polisci major but have never taken an economics class and am pretty ignorant on economics. should i be worried?

I am reading the Qu'ran and Bhagavad Gita/other Hindu texts. Figure I will go into law school with an open mind and hopefully some peace.

StillHerexxx wrote:I am reading the Qu'ran and Bhagavad Gita/other Hindu texts. Figure I will go into law school with an open mind and hopefully some peace.

Most sense any post on TLS has ever made. 1-mothereffing-80.

s0ph1e2007 wrote:

leeronalda wrote:Atlas Shrugged

+1

Atlas Shrugged is a waste of life . . . unless you like reading philosophy that is dead wrong

I plan on reading fiction. And comic books.

jump_man wrote: Atlas Shrugged is a waste of life . . . unless you like reading philosophy that is dead wrong

^collectivist?

jump_man wrote: Atlas Shrugged is a waste of life . . . unless you like reading philosophy that is dead wrong

People always when I say it, but I liked Atlas Shrugged (despite disagreeing with the vast majority of her philosophy)

arism87 wrote:

jump_man wrote: Atlas Shrugged is a waste of life . . . unless you like reading philosophy that is dead wrong

People always when I say it, but I liked Atlas Shrugged (despite disagreeing with the vast majority of her philosophy)

Did anyone really miss her philosophy in that book? I guess it it the individual is inviolable and people that want to live off the producers are leaches. Other than that I really didn't get to much of it.

I think some economics or libertarian books might be better if you want to read about that. I actually agree with the philosophy but it dragged on a little long.

AreJay711 wrote:

arism87 wrote:

jump_man wrote: Atlas Shrugged is a waste of life . . . unless you like reading philosophy that is dead wrong

People always when I say it, but I liked Atlas Shrugged (despite disagreeing with the vast majority of her philosophy)

Did anyone really miss her philosophy in that book? I guess it it the individual is inviolable and people that want to live off the producers are leaches. Other than that I really didn't get to much of it.

I think some economics or libertarian books might be better if you want to read about that. I actually agree with the philosophy but it dragged on a little long.

Haha you're right, that's pretty much it (or all I got) but it was in your face for about 1,000 pages

I listened to most of atlas while driving across the country. I mostly only remember the part where the main character does some radio broadcast to all the normal folk and he expects them to understand whatever the hell it is he's saying.
I did like "we the living" though.

well-hello-there wrote:I listened to most of atlas while driving across the country. I mostly only remember the part where the main character does some radio broadcast to all the normal folk and he expects them to understand whatever the hell it is he's saying.
I did like "we the living" though.

That was the book boiled into a reasonable amount. I did like the dichotomy with the characters at first being described as immoral and then as ideals though. I thought it was a decent plot device. She certainly could have shortened it though lol.

Don't read any hornbooks or E&E's, etc. Read something for fun. Read the paper, read that novel you've been wanting to read, read anything but books that concern your 1L classes. I was foolish, I didn't heed that warning and I should have.

Here are some of the reasons NOT to read about the law prior to law school:

1. Your professors may not teach you all of the information in the [insert legal reference here].
2. Your professors may not test you on all of the information in the [insert legal reference here].
3. Your professors may disagree with the slant taken in [insert legal reference here] and you'll have to re-learn the information anyway. (My torts professor for example).
4. You may not understand the information out of context.
5. It's a waste of time.

But you're 0Ls, you won't listen to anything that law students have to say since you obviously know more about legal education. EDITED: I'll avoid the snarky-ness. Here's what you should do: try your best to just relax and arrive at school fresh with your mind empty.

HowdyYall wrote:I hear a lot of people saying that some background in economic philosophy is crucial for LS. Im a polisci major but have never taken an economics class and am pretty ignorant on economics. should i be worried?

All you need is Coase and you're good to go.

nightman09 wrote:I recently had a friend (1L at CLS) recommend brushing up on formal logic. Waste of time, or worth it?

Your friend is trolling you hard

Seriously who reads books FOR law school? Grab getting to maybe. It isn't a panacea to your woes, but it will give you a good idea of what are "good" and "bad" study habits and also give you an intelligent method for outlining law school issue spotters or policy questions.

Formal logic is something you pick up before the LSAT if you literally have nothing else going on in your life. Any formal logic book will quickly take you from basic relationships you see on the LSAT to a giant clusterfuck of symbols and shit that stops becoming about being able to make snap logical connections and more about doing some hellish form of Sudoku with modal logic symbols.

thwalls wrote:

HowdyYall wrote:I hear a lot of people saying that some background in economic philosophy is crucial for LS. Im a polisci major but have never taken an economics class and am pretty ignorant on economics. should i be worried?

All you need is Coase and you're good to go.

Fuck that guy, no professor expects more than 20% of the class to understand ANY economics.

Here let me bring you up to speed:

1) Decisions have costs
2) Decisions have benefits
3) Some costs (lost opportunities!) and benefits (Positive externalities!) are subtle, think hard about them!
4) There legal system plays an important role in balancing cost and benefit, by trying to encourage desirable outcomes while punishing undesirable outcomes. Even the transaction costs of carrying out a lawsuit plays a very important role in shaping the law!

Congrats, you now have the same level of insight that a 4-year econ major is going to be able to apply in law school. Have fun!


P.S. To the rest of you: Buying a commercial outline is like PAYING money for B's. Same goes for buying horn-books. Unless your professor explicitly suggests a horn-book, it's going to be like morphine. You will feel good and it will put you in a happy place; finally a clear and simple explanation of the law! Oh wait your professor isn't testing you on what's in the hornbook, they will test on you class notes and course work. Hornbooks are a hella-sweet time to waste money and learn a bunch of black letter law you'll never need and will be flushed out of your head by Christmas! That's a bit harsh but waaaay too many people spent their final days before exams reading hornbooks like their favorite novel, giving up all the sweet sweet secrets of the law. Get one if you really need it, I even used Glannon's E&E for Civpro because it was assigned. However, using it for more than a quick reference guide is a great way to piss off a professor when you cite "Thomas v. Thomas" for a principle and it was only in your hornbook and not the syllabus = GG

The Restatements are online (Lexis & Westlaw), they will be free, they have examples... and it will probably give you more than enough clarification for any black letter stuff you are confused about.

Sogui wrote:
Fuck that guy, no professor expects more than 20% of the class to understand ANY economics.

Depends on the professor. I'll be more specific though. Know Coase Theorem and you're good to go.

thwalls wrote:

Sogui wrote:
Fuck that guy, no professor expects more than 20% of the class to understand ANY economics.

Depends on the professor. I'll be more specific though. Know Coase Theorem and you're good to go.

I liked this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Economic-Behavior ... 0521348919

I like this kind of stuff though. Part of why I'm applying to law school lol.

Sogui wrote:P.S. To the rest of you: Buying a commercial outline is like PAYING money for B's. Same goes for buying horn-books. Unless your professor explicitly suggests a horn-book, it's going to be like morphine. You will feel good and it will put you in a happy place; finally a clear and simple explanation of the law! Oh wait your professor isn't testing you on what's in the hornbook, they will test on you class notes and course work. Hornbooks are a hella-sweet time to waste money and learn a bunch of black letter law you'll never need and will be flushed out of your head by Christmas! That's a bit harsh but waaaay too many people spent their final days before exams reading hornbooks like their favorite novel, giving up all the sweet sweet secrets of the law. Get one if you really need it, I even used Glannon's E&E for Civpro because it was assigned. However, using it for more than a quick reference guide is a great way to piss off a professor when you cite "Thomas v. Thomas" for a principle and it was only in your hornbook and not the syllabus = GG

The Restatements are online (Lexis & Westlaw), they will be free, they have examples... and it will probably give you more than enough clarification for any black letter stuff you are confused about.

Ehh I've seen many success stories from people who use the E&Es and other supplements regularly. To each his own, but this advice is def not always credited. Also, maybe it would help if you told us how you did 1L?

ETA: Just realized you are 1L now, so don't have grades yet. Well good luck! Interested to see how you did.

I actually think that reading the foundational Civil procedure topics in the Glannon Examples and Explanations for Civ Pro is an extremely good idea. The "only learn the law the way your professor sees it" argument isn't something that you really have to worry about for civ pro if you focus on subject matter jurisdiction, personal jurisdiction, removal, supplemental jurisdiction, Erie and venue. If your professor is teaching you something dramatically different from what Glannon's saying, something's wrong with your professor.

Knowing the foundations of Civ Pro before you walk into class on day one will give you nice leg up because you will be able to follow your professor's lectures a lot easier than someone who's hearing about Erie etc. for the very first time( which is especially helpful for Civ Pro since it takes time for it to soak into your mind, and for you to notice how everything interacts and connects) It will also allow you to start going through the problems in the Glannon EE and Glannon guide a lot sooner and thus you'll know the law earlier than your classmates. Consequently freeing up time to do other more important things during the semester like taking practice exams earlier and having more time to learn your other more subjective classes. Civ pro is almost like math; it's a language that everyone in the law understands and--at least on a basic level--interprets in the same way.

See if you can find out what casebook your E&E professor uses--if they use the Friedenthall Miller casebook I would highly recommend buying the Kane and Miller hornbook and focusing on the civ pro topics that I previously mentioned.

I'd also look at trying to learn to bluebook. Surprisingly LRW professors don't really do a good job of teaching you how to bluebook. You're really expected to teach yourself while juggling a bunch of other things; your time is so constrained during 1L that it would be helpful to knock that out of the way before you're loaded with a bunch of reading and memos that you have to do. Try this book below, and pick up a copy of the bluebook online as well. This will help you when it's time to do journal write on tryouts as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Mas ... pd_sim_b_1

Sogui wrote:

thwalls wrote:

HowdyYall wrote:I hear a lot of people saying that some background in economic philosophy is crucial for LS. Im a polisci major but have never taken an economics class and am pretty ignorant on economics. should i be worried?

All you need is Coase and you're good to go.

Fuck that guy, no professor expects more than 20% of the class to understand ANY economics.

Here let me bring you up to speed:

1) Decisions have costs
2) Decisions have benefits
3) Some costs (lost opportunities!) and benefits (Positive externalities!) are subtle, think hard about them!
4) There legal system plays an important role in balancing cost and benefit, by trying to encourage desirable outcomes while punishing undesirable outcomes. Even the transaction costs of carrying out a lawsuit plays a very important role in shaping the law!

Congrats, you now have the same level of insight that a 4-year econ major is going to be able to apply in law school. Have fun!


P.S. To the rest of you: Buying a commercial outline is like PAYING money for B's. Same goes for buying horn-books. Unless your professor explicitly suggests a horn-book, it's going to be like morphine. You will feel good and it will put you in a happy place; finally a clear and simple explanation of the law! Oh wait your professor isn't testing you on what's in the hornbook, they will test on you class notes and course work. Hornbooks are a hella-sweet time to waste money and learn a bunch of black letter law you'll never need and will be flushed out of your head by Christmas! That's a bit harsh but waaaay too many people spent their final days before exams reading hornbooks like their favorite novel, giving up all the sweet sweet secrets of the law. Get one if you really need it, I even used Glannon's E&E for Civpro because it was assigned. However, using it for more than a quick reference guide is a great way to piss off a professor when you cite "Thomas v. Thomas" for a principle and it was only in your hornbook and not the syllabus = GG

The Restatements are online (Lexis & Westlaw), they will be free, they have examples... and it will probably give you more than enough clarification for any black letter stuff you are confused about.

Wait you're a 1L? Please tell me you're not, and that you have grades and you're not just spouting off.

This is just wrong. While relying entirely upon supplements/ comm outlines is a mistake they can play a large part in your studying/ reading. Many, many students use hornbooks and E&Es and do very well. Don't listen to anyone who makes blanket statements like the above poster.

Now, 0L reading is way more controversial and questionable. But the above poster is just wrong.

Find your own balance and don't be afraid to use supplements/ comm outlines.

Please see:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/success- ... chool.html (NYU Student who heavily relied upon E&E's & hornbooks.)
http://www.top-law-schools.com/loyola-study-advice.html (Arrow who heavily relied upon E&E's & hornbooks.)
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=104810 (My thread & my story at my T1 before I transferred, using E&E's, hornbooks, and comm supps)

^ <33

Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, the complete works of Sartre (in the original), and The House of God (to make you glad you aren't going into medicine).

Oh yeah, and Am. Jur. 2d. Every last page.