New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

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ComatoseClown
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New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby ComatoseClown » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:35 pm

From what I've seen, there often tends to be great reliance on the "main" Law School Rankings which put Yale, Harvard, and Stanford at the top.
However, I found this today and thought I'd post it, for those of you who haven't seen it already or would like a second look:

http://www.princetonreview.com/law-school-rankings.aspx

I was surprised to see Penn ranked #1 for Career Prospects, and that neither Yale nor Harvard is ranked to have the best Classroom Experience.

This thread can also serve to debate the correctness of any of these rankings.
Last edited by ComatoseClown on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jcunni5
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby jcunni5 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:39 pm

it's fairly well established that these are meaningless any ranking that thinks P>Y is clearly absurd

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Gotti
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby Gotti » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:42 pm

jcunni5 wrote:it's fairly well established that these are meaningless any ranking that thinks P>Y is clearly absurd



FWIW, a crapload of Yale grads go into academia....i don't know if they were counting that when they made that list. idk seems pretty fishy though...HYS should def be first

QandAphorism
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby QandAphorism » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:43 pm

"Most Competitive Students Baylor University"

lol.

ComatoseClown
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby ComatoseClown » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:46 pm

jcunni5 wrote:it's fairly well established that these are meaningless any ranking that thinks P>Y is clearly absurd


That does seem true, I found it interesting; but what do you make of this?

--LinkRemoved--

The data from the NALP Directory of Legal Employers shows 371 firms interviewing Penn graduates, whereas only 284 for Yale. What can we take from that?

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furrywalls
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby furrywalls » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:48 pm

Hmm I guess Yale is the toughest to get into for reasons other than those shown in the rankings. You would think that would have been a red flag that their other stats were probably missing something.

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Gotti
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby Gotti » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:50 pm

QandAphorism wrote:"Most Competitive Students Baylor University"

lol.



+1

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thecilent
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby thecilent » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:51 pm

ComatoseClown wrote:From what I've seen, there often tends to be great reliance on the "main" Law School Rankings which put Yale, Harvard, and Stanford at the top.
However, I found this today and thought I'd post it, for those of you who haven't seen it already or would like a second look:

http://www.princetonreview.com/law-school-rankings.aspx

I was surprised to see Penn ranked #1 for Career Prospects, and that neither Yale nor Harvard is ranked to have the best Classroom Experience.

This thread can also serve to debate the correctness of any ofshow the ridiculousness of these rankings.


Also:
QandAphorism wrote:"Most Competitive Students Baylor University"

lol.

I died.

yale2011
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby yale2011 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:54 pm

.
Last edited by yale2011 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jcunni5
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby jcunni5 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:56 pm

That does seem true, I found it interesting; but what do you make of this?

--LinkRemoved--

The data from the NALP Directory of Legal Employers shows 371 firms interviewing Penn graduates, whereas only 284 for Yale. What can we take from that?[/quote]

Firms don't bother recruiting when they know students wouldn't take positions at their firms.[/quote]

+1

We can make of it that Yale has higher quality employers, Penn probably has alot of mediocre firms that know they could not attract a YLS grad, plus alot of YLS grads do clerkships not firms right away anyway Quantity ≠ Quality, FWIW i'm pretty sure that GULC has the most employers that doesn't mean its the best.....This isn't to rag on Penn its obviously great but anyone that has a YLS and Penn acceptance both in hand and chooses Penn b/c he thinks he will have better prospects is utterly mistaken

pwyoung
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby pwyoung » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:57 pm

ComatoseClown wrote:
jcunni5 wrote:it's fairly well established that these are meaningless any ranking that thinks P>Y is clearly absurd


That does seem true, I found it interesting; but what do you make of this?

--LinkRemoved--

The data from the NALP Directory of Legal Employers shows 371 firms interviewing Penn graduates, whereas only 284 for Yale. What can we take from that?


As noted above, a lot more Yale grads opt for academia or public interest.

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lisjjen
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby lisjjen » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:58 pm

TLS kiddos are adorable. There is clearly one thing that matters. Ever.

Ever.

Ever.

And that's US News and World Reports. It doesn't matter how smart or experienced the folks at Princeton Review are, they have violated the USNWR Universe. They must be disregarded and then dismembered. Did you ever stop to think about the fact that there are a lot of things that go into law school rankings? USNWR uses 12 variables as a matter of fact. What you end up with are schools that are on balance better when weighed according to those criterion. In regards to career prospects, Penn has produced significantly more billionaires than Yale.

And it doesn't surprise me at all that Baylor is the most competitive. Look at its profile on TLS and you'll see the same thing - I've met people who went there. Healthy competition is one thing, but the kind of bullshit some 1L's pull would never fly at a T14. I'm talking about actively fucking with course outlines to throw the curve.

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thecilent
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby thecilent » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:59 pm

lisjjen wrote:TLS kiddos are adorable. There is clearly one thing that matters. Ever.

Ever.

Ever.

And that's US News and World Reports.
It doesn't matter how smart or experienced the folks at Princeton Review are, they have violated the USNWR Universe. They must be disregarded and then dismembered.Did you ever stop to think about the fact that there are a lot of things that go into law school rankings? USNWR uses 12 variables as a matter of fact. What you end up with are schools that are on balance better when weighed according to those criterion. Penn on whole has produced significantly more billionaires than Yale.

And it doesn't surprise me at all that Baylor is the most competitive. Look at its profile TLS and you'll see the same thing. Healthy competition is one thing, but the kind of bullshit some 1L's pull would never fly at a T14. I'm talking about actively fucking with course outlines to throw the curve
.

QandAphorism
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby QandAphorism » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:02 pm

thecilent wrote:
lisjjen wrote:TLS kiddos are adorable. There is clearly one thing that matters. Ever.

Ever.

Ever.

And that's US News and World Reports.
It doesn't matter how smart or experienced the folks at Princeton Review are, they have violated the USNWR Universe. They must be disregarded and then dismembered.Did you ever stop to think about the fact that there are a lot of things that go into law school rankings? USNWR uses 12 variables as a matter of fact. What you end up with are schools that are on balance better when weighed according to those criterion. Penn on whole has produced significantly more billionaires than Yale.

And it doesn't surprise me at all that Baylor is the most competitive. Look at its profile TLS and you'll see the same thing. Healthy competition is one thing, but the kind of bullshit some 1L's pull would never fly at a T14. I'm talking about actively fucking with course outlines to throw the curve
.


titcr.

To this i'd add that competitiveness is a relative notttion.

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lisjjen
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby lisjjen » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:04 pm

QandAphorism wrote:titcr.

To this i'd add that competitiveness is a relative notttion.


To this I'd add I don't want to go to a school where career prospects are so shitty that students have to eat each other to get the two job offers a year.

And yeah, I'm guessing if this is based on surveys, the 1Ls at the lower ranked school aren't going to be used to as competitive of a collegiate environment so seeing some competitive students is going to freak them the fuck out.
Last edited by lisjjen on Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

QandAphorism
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby QandAphorism » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:05 pm

lisjjen wrote:
QandAphorism wrote:titcr.

To this i'd add that competitiveness is a relative notttion.


To this I'd add I don't want to go to a school where career prospects are so shitty that students have to eat each other to get the two job offers a year.


Exactly.

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gdane
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby gdane » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:05 pm

Rankings dont determine a schools prestige/worth. The schools prestige/worth determines the rankings.

HYS, NYU/Columbia, Georgetown, etc etc were top schools that attracted the best and brightest long before USNWR started ranking them. If the rankings disappeared tomorrow nothing would change.

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lisjjen
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby lisjjen » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:08 pm

gdane5 wrote:If the rankings disappeared tomorrow nothing would change.


I've talked to too many admissions staff to believe this. The prestiege was always there, but USNWR changed the game. Especially the concept of the T14. Once you turn admission to these schools into a commodity, you create a rat race between the haves and have nots.

I agree that good schools would continue to be good though.

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Ostrizr316
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby Ostrizr316 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:10 pm

That does seem true, I found it interesting; but what do you make of this?

--LinkRemoved--

The data from the NALP Directory of Legal Employers shows 371 firms interviewing Penn graduates, whereas only 284 for Yale. What can we take from that?


If you're convinced by that kind of logic I've got a Cooley degree that I'll be happy to sign you up for. Its a J.D. which is really respected and you can do anything with. Plus, employers just care that you got your degree and it really doesn't matter where you went to school.

Do some math (I know, a frightening prospect for any 0L)

Yale's class size- 214
Penn's Class size- 255

% of Yale's class going directly into private practice- 40% (clerkship 31%, Government 12%)
% of Penn's class going directly into private practice- 77% (clerkship 17%)

Approx number of Yale grads looking to actually start a private practice job = 87
Approx number of Penn grads looking to actually start a private practice job = 196

I would guess that the number of Firms has a lot less to do with them not wanting to hire Yale grads and having more to do with the 87 Yale grads never looking at about 100 of those firms.

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lisjjen
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby lisjjen » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:13 pm

Ostrizr316 wrote:I would guess that the number of Firms has a lot less to do with them not wanting to hire Yale grads and having more to do with the 87 Yale grads never looking at about 100 of those firms.


Or self selection. If I wanted to go into business I would go to Penn, especially if I could get into Wharton too.

If your head hasn't exploded, I'll continue. If I wanted to go into high level cabinet or judicial positions, I'd go with Yale.

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AreJay711
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:29 pm

Many of those rankings are based on surveys of current students which are basically meaningless. I have no problem with Vandy being ranked for careers but above Harvard? No way. And BC and BU above Cornell and GULC? I doubt it even if ppl on here do call it Georgetttown.

savagecheater
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby savagecheater » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:38 pm

gdane5 wrote:Rankings dont determine a schools prestige/worth. The schools prestige/worth determines the rankings.

HYS, NYU/Columbia, Georgetown, etc etc were top schools that attracted the best and brightest long before USNWR started ranking them. If the rankings disappeared tomorrow nothing would change.


If Vandy and G'town switched this year you better believe employers would take note.

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gdane
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby gdane » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:05 pm

savagecheater wrote:
gdane5 wrote:Rankings dont determine a schools prestige/worth. The schools prestige/worth determines the rankings.

HYS, NYU/Columbia, Georgetown, etc etc were top schools that attracted the best and brightest long before USNWR started ranking them. If the rankings disappeared tomorrow nothing would change.


If Vandy and G'town switched this year you better believe employers would take note.

Who knows? All I know is that a hell of a lot more people know what Georgetown is than Vanderbilt. That kind of common person prestige can pay many dividends. People will think youre really smart if you go to Georgetown. :mrgreen:

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:18 pm

savagecheater wrote:
gdane5 wrote:Rankings dont determine a schools prestige/worth. The schools prestige/worth determines the rankings.

HYS, NYU/Columbia, Georgetown, etc etc were top schools that attracted the best and brightest long before USNWR started ranking them. If the rankings disappeared tomorrow nothing would change.


If Vandy and G'town switched this year you better believe employers would take note.


Umm, no, not likely. I have yet to meet a lawyer who knew the current year's rankings. The only lawyers I imagine who would pay attention to this would be Vandy Alums to laugh at any GULC Alums they knew.

savagecheater
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Re: New Rankings: by Career Prospects; Experience; Quality;Profs

Postby savagecheater » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:49 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
savagecheater wrote:
gdane5 wrote:Rankings dont determine a schools prestige/worth. The schools prestige/worth determines the rankings.

HYS, NYU/Columbia, Georgetown, etc etc were top schools that attracted the best and brightest long before USNWR started ranking them. If the rankings disappeared tomorrow nothing would change.


If Vandy and G'town switched this year you better believe employers would take note.


Umm, no, not likely. I have yet to meet a lawyer who knew the current year's rankings. The only lawyers I imagine who would pay attention to this would be Vandy Alums to laugh at any GULC Alums they knew.


Not so much their exact rankings but that Vandy had moved up significantly and that GULC dropped.




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