Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
sting_it
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:50 pm

Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby sting_it » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:11 pm

I am Maria from Czech Rep. I did my B.S. in Electrical Engineering from a public university in U.S. and got a GPA of 3.57/4.00. My question is :what academic course to do after bachelors in engineering before going to law school a year later to prepare myself better for law curriculum and also to get an edge as a future lawyer?

I am planning on going to law school in Fall 2012 in US. I believe that I will go for patent law as that works well with my engineering degree. I am on a student visa in US which expires in May 2011. I want to stay in US and learn more about US law or anything that would give me some edge to be a good lawyer. So, I want to choose some courses/degree (like M.A. or something of one year) from some university that are economical and that span over one year time. Money is a factor for me at the moment to decide about this intermediate educational thing. Please let me know what courses/degree and universities which are not expensive that I can look into for the gap year that I will be spending before going to law school. My current visa doesn't let me intern or work in any area other than Electrical engineering (my Ugrad major). Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Addendum: I asked somebody this question and got a response that I don't stand a chance of becoming a successful lawyer in USA because of my cultural and visa reasons. I have been consistently scoring in the 165-170 range on practice LSATs with little practice, which tells me that I can go to a T-14 law school, may be a T-5 if I take more time to study. May be that person is right, but he can't make that statement just yet. The kind of law I want to practice is patent law, which people only with engineering or science background can attempt and very few of these science or engg. graduates try to set foot on the legal field. So, I am asserting that going in the patent law field after graduating from a T-14 school could be a good direction for my career, despite my visa status and different culture background. And, if I happen to work my a** off in the law school and earn top grades, then I will have a good shot at being a decently successful lawyer to begin with. Beyond that if I can endure the early few rigorous years and keep on working hard, I would become a successful lawyer. I think law firms won't have any issue applying for work visa for a talented and well trained lawyer (and an attractive girl like me :p). I know it will take tremendous hard work and perseverance, but don't you think with this attitude I can succeed or is it too risky a venture for me to attempt? I wanna be realistic about this and don't want to go this route if it has a great deal of risk involved, especially in this economy. Please help me..I will really appreciate any insightful response or any suggestion for my future.

User avatar
deadpoetnsp
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:57 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby deadpoetnsp » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:32 pm

I am international applicant as well. I have worked in IP, and am applying to law schools and am interested in patent law as well.

The best thing you can do to add something to yourself is try to intern as a technology specialist at a law firm. While on F1 OPT, you can work in a field related to your major. If you are employed at a law firm as a technology specialist, you will be using your UG knowledge.

Secondly, I would not at all agree with whoever told you that you can't become a successful lawyer in the US because of visa reasons. I know other international applicants who have successfully completed their JD and passed the bar.

To be a patent attorney, you will need to complete the JD, then pass the regular bar exam, and then additionally pass the patent bar exam. The problem is that a person who is not a US citizen cannot give the patent bar. Citizenship is not a requirement for the regular bar. However, if after completing your JD and passing the regular bar you can be employed at a firm for a position that requires you to do patent work, you can give the patent bar. You will get a special registration number with restricted status, which would mean that you cannot conduct business as a patent attorney by yourself, but you can be a patent attorney as long as you are associated with that particular firm.

The only 'cultural' reasons I can think of is that an attorney is supposed to be very fluent in both written and oral communication. If you are, then you have nothing to worry about.

Finally, if you are not wealthy, keep in mind that international applicants are NOT eligible for any US federal educational loans that most US citizens/residents applying for a JD avail of. You will also not be eligible for any US private loans without having a US citizen as a cosigner. So if you are not wealthy, you will be pretty much reliant on getting a 165+ LSAT, so that you stand a good chance of getting as close to a full tuition scholarship as possible. For this, keep in mind that T-14 schools will typically give you a full-ride only if you have a 175+ LSAT. With a 168-170 LSAT, you can hope to get a full ride from T15-T50 or so onwards, provided your overall application is strong and you are able to write a convincing personal statement explaining your motivation for studying law. DO NOT get on the TLS gravy-train which says that "T-14" or bust. If you get a full ride at a decent non-T14 with good reputation and placement, you can surely attain your goals without the mental worry of a huge loan.

All the best, and PM me if you have any questions.

User avatar
dood
Posts: 1639
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby dood » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:36 pm

...
Last edited by dood on Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
drdolittle
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:15 am

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby drdolittle » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:40 pm

sting_it wrote:I am Maria from Czech Rep... (and an attractive girl like me :p).

Looking to marry an American?

User avatar
deadpoetnsp
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:57 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby deadpoetnsp » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:46 pm

dood wrote:quiet a few of the large firms don't interview F1 visa holders. im not sure if it has something to do with the summer internship or maybe they just dont want to sponsor your green card. just a FYI.


This is true. It will be more difficult to get offers as an F1.

User avatar
drdolittle
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:15 am

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby drdolittle » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:30 pm

Seriously, I would not do this. It's just too risky and even if you get a full scholarship to a decent school, you'll still have to show enough money in the bank for living expenses to get an F-1. And then once you graduate you'll have to convince a firm to sponsor your H-1. This will be tough, even if you're qualified (and attractive). No school I'm aware of hands out full scholarships w/ full living expenses, especially with your approximate numbers.

Also, if you search through TLS, you'll see that more and more people are applying to law school with a hard science background, which I think is an accurate representation of real life. I believe there are now enough hard science majors attending law school to match the demand in the US, or thereabouts. (i.e. a tech background's not that special anymore and getting tech law jobs out of law school is becoming more competitive)

I'd suggest you look into doing this in the EU. From what I understand, the EU's streamlining its IP policies and the European systems even before unification have traditionally not had nearly enough science students become lawyers. So I think there are some great opportunities there for the type of career you want to pursue in the US. I'm actually considering doing a semester study abroad in Germany to get exposed to EU IP law for this reason.

User avatar
NoleinNY
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby NoleinNY » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:35 pm

drdolittle wrote:Seriously, I would not do this. It's just too risky and even if you get a full scholarship to a decent school, you'll still have to show enough money in the bank for living expenses to get an F-1. And then once you graduate you'll have to convince a firm to sponsor your H-1. This will be tough, even if you're qualified (and attractive). No school I'm aware of hands out full scholarships w/ full living expenses, especially with your approximate numbers.

Also, if you search through TLS, you'll see that more and more people are applying to law school with a hard science background, which I think is an accurate representation of real life. I believe there are now enough hard science majors attending law school to match the demand in the US, or thereabouts. (i.e. a tech background's not that special anymore and getting tech law jobs out of law school is becoming more competitive)

I'd suggest you look into doing this in the EU. From what I understand, the EU's streamlining its IP policies and the European systems even before unification have traditionally not had nearly enough science students become lawyers. So I think there are some great opportunities there for the type of career you want to pursue in the US. I'm actually considering doing a semester study abroad in Germany to get exposed to EU IP law for this reason.


This. Though, after doing a few years of tech law in Europe you still feel the urge to practice in the US, an LLM is always a possibility.

sting_it
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby sting_it » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:42 pm

@deadpoetnsp: Thanks a lot for your reply Sir, it was very thorough and detailed. appreciate it.
To your second reply, it sucks that you are admitting about law firms being reluctant to base their offers on visa status than merit (even though it costs a couple of thousands to sponsor the work permit that they can take off from my salary) :(

@dood: I heard that large firms didn't care much about visa status coz they got enough money to spend on legal status change (like offer work permit etc). But, if what you say is true then it's disheartening to know that they don't even interview F1 visa holders. Kinda brought tear to my eyes.

@drdolittle: Marrying an American just for visa seems kinda desperate and against my principles. But, if our frequency matches then I am open to offers ;)
To your second reply, I am kinda thinking on the same route and what you says makes sense. I am thinking about Australia not Europe, but am still gonna think a lot more before making a decision. Thank you for sharing this.

@NoleinNY: Yeah you are right I guess. But, I am thinking Australia coz i got siblings there. Any thoughts..Thanks for your reply though.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby 09042014 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:55 pm

drdolittle wrote:Also, if you search through TLS, you'll see that more and more people are applying to law school with a hard science background, which I think is an accurate representation of real life. I believe there are now enough hard science majors attending law school to match the demand in the US, or thereabouts. (i.e. a tech background's not that special anymore and getting tech law jobs out of law school is becoming more competitive)


I'd be shocked if a pretty female EE from a T14 couldn't find a job no matter how awful her LS grades turn out.

Though pretty female EE are myth. If she is pretty on the EE scale she might be horrifically ugly on the real scale.

User avatar
drdolittle
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:15 am

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby drdolittle » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:02 am

Desert Fox wrote:
drdolittle wrote:Also, if you search through TLS, you'll see that more and more people are applying to law school with a hard science background, which I think is an accurate representation of real life. I believe there are now enough hard science majors attending law school to match the demand in the US, or thereabouts. (i.e. a tech background's not that special anymore and getting tech law jobs out of law school is becoming more competitive)


I'd be shocked if a pretty female EE from a T14 couldn't find a job no matter how awful her LS grades turn out.

Though pretty female EE are myth. If she is pretty on the EE scale she might be horrifically ugly on the real scale.


Hey, watch it, that's potentially my future HOT EE tech law wife you're talking about. :evil:

User avatar
ResolutePear
Posts: 8614
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:07 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:07 am

drdolittle wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
drdolittle wrote:Also, if you search through TLS, you'll see that more and more people are applying to law school with a hard science background, which I think is an accurate representation of real life. I believe there are now enough hard science majors attending law school to match the demand in the US, or thereabouts. (i.e. a tech background's not that special anymore and getting tech law jobs out of law school is becoming more competitive)


I'd be shocked if a pretty female EE from a T14 couldn't find a job no matter how awful her LS grades turn out.

Though pretty female EE are myth. If she is pretty on the EE scale she might be horrifically ugly on the real scale.


Hey, watch it, that's potentially my future HOT EE tech law ex-wife after she becomes a citizen you're talking about. :evil:

User avatar
drdolittle
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:15 am

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby drdolittle » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:09 am

ResolutePear wrote:
drdolittle wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
drdolittle wrote:Also, if you search through TLS, you'll see that more and more people are applying to law school with a hard science background, which I think is an accurate representation of real life. I believe there are now enough hard science majors attending law school to match the demand in the US, or thereabouts. (i.e. a tech background's not that special anymore and getting tech law jobs out of law school is becoming more competitive)


I'd be shocked if a pretty female EE from a T14 couldn't find a job no matter how awful her LS grades turn out.

Though pretty female EE are myth. If she is pretty on the EE scale she might be horrifically ugly on the real scale.


Hey, watch it, that's potentially my future HOT EE tech law ex-wife after she becomes a citizen you're talking about. :evil:


Touche.

Sean1269
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby Sean1269 » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:13 am

If you want to get into Patent Law, either keep studying for the LSAT and go to LS next year, and plan on scoring 5-10 pts below your highest practice test. Otherwise, if you want to increaes your chances post LS for the best patent law job you can get, get your MS in EE, Computer science/computer science engineering, physics, etc, and then go, although your masters will not likely make a huge impact on your LS admissions.

Since you're an international applicant, read some books in English before you get to LS.

User avatar
ResolutePear
Posts: 8614
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:07 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:14 am

Sean1269 wrote:If you want to get into Patent Law, either keep studying for the LSAT and go to LS next year, and plan on scoring 5-10 pts below your highest practice test. Otherwise, if you want to increaes your chances post LS for the best patent law job you can get, get your MS in EE, Computer science/computer science engineering, physics, etc, and then go, although your masters will not likely make a huge impact on your LS admissions.

Since you're an international applicant, read some books in English before you get to LS.


Is LL.M.(since you already have a B.S.) in Europe then LL.M. in comparative law in America an option?

binarycode
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:36 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby binarycode » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:23 am

drdolittle wrote:
sting_it wrote:I am Maria from Czech Rep... (and an attractive girl like me :p).

Looking to marry an American?


That will take care of her green card, so she can bypass the F1 visa (although I know that your statement was intended for humor)

User avatar
ResolutePear
Posts: 8614
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:07 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:27 am

binarycode wrote:
drdolittle wrote:
sting_it wrote:I am Maria from Czech Rep... (and an attractive girl like me :p).

Looking to marry an American?


That will take care of her green card, so she can bypass the F1 visa (although I know that your statement was intended for humor)


It is common to have an arranged marriage... between families. I mean, several cultures do it. 8)

sting_it
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby sting_it » Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:35 am

@Sean1269: I am thinking of getting an MS in Information Technology, not sure yet. It bumms me out to know that getting a Masters with hopefully a great GPA won't have any tangible impact on my LS admission chances. I wish my GPA was much higher in UGrad than a 3.57/4.00. :( Just noticed on my Academic record that my cumulative GPA percentile rank on LSAT report is 65% (that's bullshit coz i was like ranked 8th out of 60 something undergraduates graduating with me in my major and I finished undergrad in 3 years, but I guess no law school cares about this, they just look at the digits). It seems like this percentile indicates my percentile relative to the entire university's student's GPAs graduating with me, that includes easy majors like Political science etc, but I could be wrong. Oh well!

Not that it is of immediate concern to me but just wondering if Harvard, Stanford and Yale are out of the picture for me, even if I could score really high on LSAT with tonnes of practice?

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby 09042014 » Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:36 am

sting_it wrote:@Sean1269: I am thinking of getting an MS in Information Technology, not sure yet. It bumms me out to know that getting a Masters with hopefully a great GPA won't have any tangible impact on my LS admission chances. I wish my GPA was much higher in UGrad than a 3.57/4.00. :( Just noticed on my Academic record that my cumulative GPA percentile rank on LSAT report is 65% (that's bullshit coz i was like ranked 8th out of 60 something undergraduates graduating with me in my major and I finished undergrad in 3 years, but I guess no law school cares about this, they just look at the digits). It seems like this percentile indicates my percentile relative to the entire university's student's GPAs graduating with me, that includes easy majors like Political science etc, but I could be wrong. Oh well!

Not that it is of immediate concern to me but just wondering if Harvard, Stanford and Yale are out of the picture for me, even if I could score really high on LSAT with tonnes of practice?


For what it's worth I know a guy with a 3.4/179 who got into HLS with a BSEE from a great EE school. Worth an app. Def write an addendum about being 8/60.

sting_it
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby sting_it » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:43 am

Good to know Desert Fox. :)

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby 09042014 » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:58 am

sting_it wrote:Good to know Desert Fox. :)


I don't mean to set up false expectations because its a longshot, but its worth the app fee.

sting_it
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby sting_it » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:47 pm

ok

sting_it
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: Academic courses after B.S. in EE before going to law school

Postby sting_it » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:19 am

How about corporate law's prospects?




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], uion1715 and 9 guests