What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:11 am

Joga Bonito wrote:Y H S CC BN MVP DNC GtownVandyTex


I'll call your idiotic grouping and raise you this (probably less) idiotic grouping.

Y - S - H - V - M - Co - Ch - Nw - P - D - Nyu - V - C - G - Tex - Usc - Ucla

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108528

whymeohgodno
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:16 am

AreJay711 wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:Y H S CC BN MVP DNC GtownVandyTex


I'll call your idiotic grouping and raise you this (probably less) idiotic grouping.

Y - S - H - V - M - Co - Ch - Nw - P - D - Nyu - V - C - G - Tex - Usc - Ucla

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108528


I love how you go almost exactly by that list but conveniently ignore the difference between Yale and Stanford and place Yale at top.

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:21 am

Desert Fox wrote:Boalt is putting significantly less people in big firms than schools it's supposed to be better than like NU and Duke. 30%? LOL Northwestern beat that by 20%, I'm sure Duke, Virginia and Michigan did too. Penn probably more than that.

It's a Georgetown peer school ITE.


And the TLS obsession with determining a school's placement strength by how much of the class goes to NYC firms (with the notable exception of Stanford and Yale--they get a free pass for not sending a lot of people to NYC firms) continues. Boalt's doing "poorly" in this economy compared to it's peers because the kids who go there by and large have zero desire to work in a big NYC firm. Duke, Penn, and NYU are filled with kids who have had ideas of NYC biglaw in their heads from day one--naturally they have "better" firm placement. This is the same reason why HYS come out "behind" Columbia and NYU in a lot of firm placement studies; but then send way more students to federal clerkships, PI, and prestigious non NYC firms.

If Boalt's anything like UVA, a crap ton of people really really don't want to work/end up in NYC; I'd imagine even more of Boalt's student's don't want to work there actually.

justadude55
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:23 am

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby justadude55 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:21 am

if you can get the in state tuition, berkley is a great place to go to. you get a top of the line LS for ~20k a year. agree on pass/fail. i would be surprised if LSAT score came up at interviews -- do people really care? a lot of successful attorneys took it when there was a different scoring system.

justadude55
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:23 am

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby justadude55 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:23 am

BruceWayne wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Boalt is putting significantly less people in big firms than schools it's supposed to be better than like NU and Duke. 30%? LOL Northwestern beat that by 20%, I'm sure Duke, Virginia and Michigan did too. Penn probably more than that.

It's a Georgetown peer school ITE.


And the TLS obsession with determining a school's placement strength by how much of the class goes to NYC firms (with the notable exception of Stanford and Yale--they get a free pass for not sending a lot of people to NYC firms) continues. Boalt's doing "poorly" in this economy compared to it's peers because the kids who go there by and large have zero desire to work in a big NYC firm. Duke, Penn, and NYU are filled with kids who have had ideas of NYC biglaw in their heads from day one--naturally they have "better" firm placement. This is the same reason why HYS come out "behind" Columbia and NYU in a lot of firm placement studies; but then send way more students to federal clerkships, PI, and prestigious non NYC firms.

If Boalt's anything like UVA, a crap ton of people really really don't want to work/end up in NYC; I'd imagine even more of Boalt's student's don't want to work there actually.

yeah, the fairest measure of how good a school is would be to see how many students who wanted to work in big law were able to get a job in big law. unfortunately, this would be impossible to quantify.

bigkahuna2020
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:12 am

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby bigkahuna2020 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:23 am

I didn't realize that biglaw was the only way to determine ranking

I guess it goes NYHC at the top or something

solidsnake
Posts: 531
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:08 am

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby solidsnake » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:24 am

This is such a stupid topic. Why does this matter to you? Do you think firms, judges, or clients ask what category "B" goes in? Grow the fuck up.

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:25 am

whymeohgodno wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:Y H S CC BN MVP DNC GtownVandyTex


I'll call your idiotic grouping and raise you this (probably less) idiotic grouping.

Y - S - H - V - M - Co - Ch - Nw - P - D - Nyu - V - C - G - Tex - Usc - Ucla

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108528


I love how you go almost exactly by that list but conveniently ignore the difference between Yale and Stanford and place Yale at top.

Well the link ignores academic so I adjusted lol.

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby im_blue » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:25 am

justadude55 wrote:if you can get the in state tuition, berkley is a great place to go to. you get a top of the line LS for ~20k a year. agree on pass/fail. i would be surprised if LSAT score came up at interviews -- do people really care? a lot of successful attorneys took it when there was a different scoring system.

in-state tuition will be $49k in 2011 and $52k in 2012.

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6943.htm

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby r6_philly » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:26 am

r6_philly wrote:So where is Berkeley in terms of pure IP?


Dammit, I have a seriously question.

bigkahuna2020
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:12 am

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby bigkahuna2020 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:28 am

r6_philly wrote:
r6_philly wrote:So where is Berkeley in terms of pure IP?


Dammit, I have a seriously question.


#2 according to most places I've seen

whymeohgodno
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:29 am

AreJay711 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:Y H S CC BN MVP DNC GtownVandyTex


I'll call your idiotic grouping and raise you this (probably less) idiotic grouping.

Y - S - H - V - M - Co - Ch - Nw - P - D - Nyu - V - C - G - Tex - Usc - Ucla

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108528


I love how you go almost exactly by that list but conveniently ignore the difference between Yale and Stanford and place Yale at top.

Well the link ignores academic so I adjusted lol.


Yale places at least 5% more into academia than Stanford?

User avatar
BioEBear2010
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:05 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby BioEBear2010 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:29 am

r6_philly wrote:
r6_philly wrote:So where is Berkeley in terms of pure IP?


Dammit, I have a seriously question.

Specialty rankings really aren't that important. If you have a tech background, you are more marketable. End of story. For good reason, though, the techies flock to Stanford and Berkeley (in no small part because of their desire to work in the Bay Area).

User avatar
Pleasye
Posts: 7963
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:22 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby Pleasye » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:29 am

im_blue wrote:
justadude55 wrote:if you can get the in state tuition, berkley is a great place to go to. you get a top of the line LS for ~20k a year. agree on pass/fail. i would be surprised if LSAT score came up at interviews -- do people really care? a lot of successful attorneys took it when there was a different scoring system.

in-state tuition will be $49k in 2011 and $52k in 2012.

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6943.htm

I was just about post about this. Boalt's tuition is not 20k a year. None of the CA public schools are.

User avatar
sundance95
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby sundance95 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:30 am

whymeohgodno wrote:Yale places at least 5% more into academia than Stanford?


LOL at Stanford hijacking a Cal thread.

User avatar
mrmangs
Posts: 674
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby mrmangs » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:30 am

r6_philly wrote:
r6_philly wrote:So where is Berkeley in terms of pure IP?


Dammit, I have a seriously question.


I am also curious about this. But I'm mainly interested in transactional IP b/c I don't have a hard science background.

d34d9823
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby d34d9823 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:30 am

solidsnake wrote:This is such a stupid topic. Why does this matter to you? Do you think firms, judges, or clients ask what category "B" goes in? Grow the fuck up.

You've got it backwards. The categories are a rough aggregation of the schools' practical prestige and influence.

irishman86
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:03 am

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby irishman86 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:33 am

mrmangs wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
r6_philly wrote:So where is Berkeley in terms of pure IP?


Dammit, I have a seriously question.


I am also curious about this. But I'm mainly interested in transactional IP b/c I don't have a hard science background.


Transactional IP? Flame?

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby r6_philly » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:34 am

BioEBear2010 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
r6_philly wrote:So where is Berkeley in terms of pure IP?


Dammit, I have a seriously question.

Specialty rankings really aren't that important. If you have a tech background, you are more marketable. End of story. For good reason, though, the techies flock to Stanford and Berkeley (in no small part because of their desire to work in the Bay Area).


Not ranking per se, but a realistic assessment of where it should be on my priority/school list based on non-personal criteria. I know Standford and Berkeley are magnets for people like me of course, I just want some sort of assessment whether I should put them ahead of CCNPM. (since people are dissing Berkeley here)

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:34 am

d34dluk3 wrote:
solidsnake wrote:This is such a stupid topic. Why does this matter to you? Do you think firms, judges, or clients ask what category "B" goes in? Grow the fuck up.

You've got it backwards. The categories are a rough aggregation of the schools' practical prestige and influence.



No he doesn't; a lot of these categorical distinctions that you're referring to are simply TLS extractions of the US News overall numerical rankings and autoadmit.com lore. They don't even bother to use the lawyer/judge prestige scores that US News collects; ironically enough one of the few stats they track worth noting--but the one that TLS never mentions in regards to rankings. If you check those out over the last decade you'll find that a lot of these TLS distinctions are coming out of thin air. For all intents and purposes if you're going for a job in NYC it's HYS CCN and then the rest of the top 14. If you're going for a job somewhere else it's basically HYS serious gap, CC then a small gap and then the rest of the top 14.

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:35 am

whymeohgodno wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
I'll call your idiotic grouping and raise you this (probably less) idiotic grouping.

Y - S - H - V - M - Co - Ch - Nw - P - D - Nyu - V - C - G - Tex - Usc - Ucla

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108528


I love how you go almost exactly by that list but conveniently ignore the difference between Yale and Stanford and place Yale at top.

Well the link ignores academic so I adjusted lol.


Yale places at least 5% more into academia than Stanford?


Checked it and you are correct, it nowhere near enough to make up the 5% difference (though it would have been close in 2007).

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:37 am

BruceWayne wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Boalt is putting significantly less people in big firms than schools it's supposed to be better than like NU and Duke. 30%? LOL Northwestern beat that by 20%, I'm sure Duke, Virginia and Michigan did too. Penn probably more than that.

It's a Georgetown peer school ITE.


And the TLS obsession with determining a school's placement strength by how much of the class goes to NYC firms (with the notable exception of Stanford and Yale--they get a free pass for not sending a lot of people to NYC firms) continues. Boalt's doing "poorly" in this economy compared to it's peers because the kids who go there by and large have zero desire to work in a big NYC firm. Duke, Penn, and NYU are filled with kids who have had ideas of NYC biglaw in their heads from day one--naturally they have "better" firm placement. This is the same reason why HYS come out "behind" Columbia and NYU in a lot of firm placement studies; but then send way more students to federal clerkships, PI, and prestigious non NYC firms.

If Boalt's anything like UVA, a crap ton of people really really don't want to work/end up in NYC; I'd imagine even more of Boalt's student's don't want to work there actually.


Yet back five years ago Boalt was placing a similar number of people into big law as MVP. Did Boalt suddenly start taking huge masses of PI and small firm folks?

User avatar
AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:38 am

BruceWayne wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
solidsnake wrote:This is such a stupid topic. Why does this matter to you? Do you think firms, judges, or clients ask what category "B" goes in? Grow the fuck up.

You've got it backwards. The categories are a rough aggregation of the schools' practical prestige and influence.



No he doesn't; a lot of these categorical distinctions that you're referring to are simply TLS extractions of the US News overall numerical rankings and autoadmit.com lore. They don't even bother to use the lawyer/judge prestige scores that US News collects; ironically enough one of the few stats they track worth noting--but the one that TLS never mentions in regards to rankings. If you check those out over the last decade you'll find that a lot of these TLS distinctions are coming out of thin air. For all intents and purposes if you're going for a job in NYC it's HYS CCN and then the rest of the top 14. If you're going for a job somewhere else it's basically HYS serious gap, CC then a small gap and then the rest of the top 14.


Not statistically significant for what I care about actually (which is the 25th percentile private sector starting salary). Just wrote a 54 page report on it lol.

User avatar
mrmangs
Posts: 674
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby mrmangs » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:46 am

irishman86 wrote:
mrmangs wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
r6_philly wrote:So where is Berkeley in terms of pure IP?


Dammit, I have a seriously question.


I am also curious about this. But I'm mainly interested in transactional IP b/c I don't have a hard science background.


Transactional IP? Flame?


It might be ignorance, but it's not flame, :lol:. I would assume there is transactional work to be done with companies in places like Silicon Valley (in fact, I've heard people mention transactional IP work), and from what little I've been able to gather (mainly from TLS and a guy I kinda know who works at MoFo), a hard science background is only really important if you are going to be doing IP litigation or prosecution. I want to be doing transactional work generally speaking, but I am just wondering if hiring would be any better in firms/areas that revolve around IP. Also, since Stanford and Berkeley are supposed to be so strong in IP (although, as has already been mentioned, this is probably just because they attract students with a certain background who want to work in places like SV), is there any added advantage going to either of those schools if one wanted to do that kind of work. So, rip my question to shreds if it merits it. I'm just curious and may be way off base.

User avatar
BioEBear2010
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:05 pm

Re: What T14 grouping is Berkeley in?

Postby BioEBear2010 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:49 am

Transactional IP is most certainly real. It's a subset of corporate work. Someone's gotta assess the value of IP and deal with licenses/patents/what-have-you when one company is acquiring another.

More on point: Berkeley is a great school (especially on the West Coast), but the grading system does hurt it relative to other schools.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], bleakchimera2, Pugnax and 7 guests