Is Asian Amerian an URM?

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gtrwanka
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Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby gtrwanka » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:37 pm

I probably would guess no and it probably wouldnt help. My LSAT teacher said pull out everything for the apps but would this actually help?

whymeohgodno
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:38 pm

No, if anything it hurts you.

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BrownBears09
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby BrownBears09 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:40 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:No, if anything it hurts you.

DreamShake
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby DreamShake » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:16 pm

BrownBears09 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:No, if anything it hurts you.


FTFY, looks like you accidentally struck through the truth.

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BrownBears09
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby BrownBears09 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:21 pm

DreamShake wrote:
BrownBears09 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:No, if anything it hurts you.


FTFY, looks like you accidentally struck through the truth.

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beachbum
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby beachbum » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:27 pm

Is there any evidence for it hurting you? I've only heard of race/ethnicity boosting an application, not detracting from it.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:28 pm

beachbum wrote:Is there any evidence for it hurting you? I've only heard of race/ethnicity boosting an application, not detracting from it.


It hurts a lot for many of the elite undergrad schools so it isn't unreasonable to assume it might/will hurt for elite law schools.

r6_philly
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:31 pm

I am too lazy to look, but there are studies that claim it hurts as much as 120 SAT points for UG admissions compared to white counterparts.

DreamShake
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby DreamShake » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:51 pm

beachbum wrote:Is there any evidence for it hurting you? I've only heard of race/ethnicity boosting an application, not detracting from it.


I read a study a while back about how the class profiles at Boalt Hall changed immediately after the the school was forced to stop reserving seats for URM's (read: setting quotas) and to compare URM's against the larger applicant body, not just other URM's. The AA and Hispanic population dropped to a mere handful (as in <10 AA's, slightly more Hispanics), while the Asian population jumped dramatically. White representation was basically stagnant. The study concluded that seats reserved for underqualified URM's were filled by Asian students when the race factor was removed. Law schools don't blatantly use quotas anymore, but everybody acknowledges the URM boost, which generates the exact same effect.

Edit: Too lazy to look up the exact study, but you can probably find it by Googling "Boalt Hall 1992 affirmative action."

whymeohgodno
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:56 pm

DreamShake wrote:
beachbum wrote:Is there any evidence for it hurting you? I've only heard of race/ethnicity boosting an application, not detracting from it.


I read a study a while back about how the class profiles at Boalt Hall changed immediately after the the school was forced to stop reserving seats for URM's (read: setting quotas) and to compare URM's against the larger applicant body, not just other URM's. The AA and Hispanic population dropped to a mere handful (as in <10 AA's, slightly more Hispanics), while the Asian population jumped dramatically. White representation was basically stagnant. The study concluded that seats reserved for underqualified URM's were filled by Asian students when the race factor was removed. Law schools don't blatantly use quotas anymore, but everybody acknowledges the URM boost, which generates the exact same effect.

Edit: Too lazy to look up the exact study, but you can probably find it by Googling "Boalt Hall 1992 affirmative action."


I think I remember this. It was for undergrad though right?

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BrownBears09
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby BrownBears09 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:57 pm

DreamShake wrote:
beachbum wrote:Is there any evidence for it hurting you? I've only heard of race/ethnicity boosting an application, not detracting from it.


I read a study a while back about how the class profiles at Boalt Hall changed immediately after the the school was forced to stop reserving seats for URM's (read: setting quotas) and to compare URM's against the larger applicant body, not just other URM's. The AA and Hispanic population dropped to a mere handful (as in <10 AA's, slightly more Hispanics), while the Asian population jumped dramatically. White representation was basically stagnant. The study concluded that seats reserved for underqualified URM's were filled by Asian students when the race factor was removed. Law schools don't blatantly use quotas anymore, but everybody acknowledges the URM boost, which generates the exact same effect.

Edit: Too lazy to look up the exact study, but you can probably find it by Googling "Boalt Hall 1992 affirmative action."


A study of one university in California is definitely representative of the entire population of universities.

DreamShake
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby DreamShake » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:58 pm

No, it was for Boalt Hall. The UC system at large got in trouble the following year, though, IIRC.

Edit: Not going to bother arguing with you, BrownBear...the facts are readily available, and they're quite clear. The larger UC system got in trouble for similar policies. Michigan got sued over similar policies. Other universities have had the same problems.
Last edited by DreamShake on Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:00 pm

BrownBears09 wrote:
DreamShake wrote:
beachbum wrote:Is there any evidence for it hurting you? I've only heard of race/ethnicity boosting an application, not detracting from it.


I read a study a while back about how the class profiles at Boalt Hall changed immediately after the the school was forced to stop reserving seats for URM's (read: setting quotas) and to compare URM's against the larger applicant body, not just other URM's. The AA and Hispanic population dropped to a mere handful (as in <10 AA's, slightly more Hispanics), while the Asian population jumped dramatically. White representation was basically stagnant. The study concluded that seats reserved for underqualified URM's were filled by Asian students when the race factor was removed. Law schools don't blatantly use quotas anymore, but everybody acknowledges the URM boost, which generates the exact same effect.

Edit: Too lazy to look up the exact study, but you can probably find it by Googling "Boalt Hall 1992 affirmative action."


A study of one university in California is definitely representative of the entire population of universities.


A princeton university professor did a study where he examined 10 elite schools. He pretty much found the same conclusion.

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BrownBears09
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby BrownBears09 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:01 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
BrownBears09 wrote:
DreamShake wrote:
beachbum wrote:Is there any evidence for it hurting you? I've only heard of race/ethnicity boosting an application, not detracting from it.


I read a study a while back about how the class profiles at Boalt Hall changed immediately after the the school was forced to stop reserving seats for URM's (read: setting quotas) and to compare URM's against the larger applicant body, not just other URM's. The AA and Hispanic population dropped to a mere handful (as in <10 AA's, slightly more Hispanics), while the Asian population jumped dramatically. White representation was basically stagnant. The study concluded that seats reserved for underqualified URM's were filled by Asian students when the race factor was removed. Law schools don't blatantly use quotas anymore, but everybody acknowledges the URM boost, which generates the exact same effect.

Edit: Too lazy to look up the exact study, but you can probably find it by Googling "Boalt Hall 1992 affirmative action."


A study of one university in California is definitely representative of the entire population of universities.


A princeton university professor did a study where he examined 10 elite schools. He pretty much found the same conclusion.


Once in a while, it's OK to admit you're wrong.

HeavenWood
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:06 pm

BrownBears09 wrote:
DreamShake wrote:
beachbum wrote:Is there any evidence for it hurting you? I've only heard of race/ethnicity boosting an application, not detracting from it.


I read a study a while back about how the class profiles at Boalt Hall changed immediately after the the school was forced to stop reserving seats for URM's (read: setting quotas) and to compare URM's against the larger applicant body, not just other URM's. The AA and Hispanic population dropped to a mere handful (as in <10 AA's, slightly more Hispanics), while the Asian population jumped dramatically. White representation was basically stagnant. The study concluded that seats reserved for underqualified URM's were filled by Asian students when the race factor was removed. Law schools don't blatantly use quotas anymore, but everybody acknowledges the URM boost, which generates the exact same effect.

Edit: Too lazy to look up the exact study, but you can probably find it by Googling "Boalt Hall 1992 affirmative action."


A study of one university in California is definitely representative of the entire population of universities.


Given California's high Asian population, I think Berkeley makes for an interesting case study.

But that's undergrad. The conventional wisdom here is that being Asian won't hurt you for law school.

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mrmangs
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby mrmangs » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:19 pm

Never heard any of this before, kind of interesting. But seriously, the UC UG schools comprise an unrepresentative sample. For law school, being Asian certainly won't help your app, but I can't see it hurting either.

DreamShake
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby DreamShake » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:20 pm

HeavenWood wrote:Given California's high Asian population, I think Berkeley makes for an interesting case study.


DreamShake wrote:...the facts are readily available, and they're quite clear. The larger UC system got in trouble for similar policies. Michigan got sued over similar policies. Other universities have had the same problems.


HeavenWood wrote:But that's undergrad. The conventional wisdom here is that being Asian won't hurt you for law school.


DreamShake wrote:I read a study a while back about how the class profiles at Boalt Hall changed immediately after the the school was forced to stop reserving seats for URM's (read: setting quotas) and to compare URM's against the larger applicant body, not just other URM's. The AA and Hispanic population dropped to a mere handful (as in <10 AA's, slightly more Hispanics), while the Asian population jumped dramatically. White representation was basically stagnant. The study concluded that seats reserved for underqualified URM's were filled by Asian students when the race factor was removed. Law schools don't blatantly use quotas anymore, but everybody acknowledges the URM boost, which generates the exact same effect.

Edit: Too lazy to look up the exact study, but you can probably find it by Googling "Boalt Hall 1992 affirmative action."




I don't think being Asian hurts like it does for UG, but I think it's certainly lowest on the ethnicity totem pole (which is sad in itself). Thus the appropriateness of whymeohgodno's "If anything, it hurts you." Because if it does have an effect, it definitely doesn't have a positive one.

HeavenWood
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:33 pm

DreamShake wrote:Boalt Hall


I missed that. My bad!

ComatoseClown
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby ComatoseClown » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:06 pm

Question: Are there different Asian "subclasses" to checkmark on the LSAC report where it asks for your ethnic bagkround? (E.g. Vietnamese; Asian Indian; Filipino; Chinese, etc.)

Or is it just one entity titled "Asian"?

[I'm not an applicant -- just wanted to know.]

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iShotFirst
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby iShotFirst » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:13 pm

Can people just start doing searches on this subject so there is not this argument every time? there are a ton of threads that already answer this question.

r6_philly
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:16 pm

ComatoseClown wrote:Question: Are there different Asian "subclasses" to checkmark on the LSAC report where it asks for your ethnic bagkround? (E.g. Vietnamese; Asian Indian; Filipino; Chinese, etc.)

Or is it just one entity titled "Asian"?

[I'm not an applicant -- just wanted to know.]


Some applications do. I think most do.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:20 pm

To answer the OP's question - a look at the demographics of most law schools would show that although Asians are a minority in the U.S., they're hardly "under-represented" among the student body.

And considering that the percentage of Asian students is often 2-3 times higher than the percentage of the overall U.S. population that's Asian, I doubt that their large numbers in the student body are the result of preferential treatment (if preferential treatment were needed, why would the adcomms employ it to the point that Asians become wildly over-represented?)

If anything, I suspect that if the admissions process were completely color-blind, the student population would have an even larger percentage of Asians.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:27 pm

um, i think a lot of people in this thread are confusing 'being asian american hurting you in UG admissions' w/ 'being asian american hurting you in law school admissions'

while the former is very likely (plenty of studies suggest this)...the latter, im not as convinced. id love to see a great study for asian americans and law schools, but spare me ones that are simply "conclusory."

there is some suggestion that being asian hurts a bit at the ivy league law schools...but i havent seen any hard evidence pointing to this.

r6_philly
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:28 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:there is some suggestion that being asian hurts a bit at the ivy league law schools...but i havent seen any hard evidence pointing to this.


Why is that (the reason that you heard)?

whymeohgodno
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Re: Is Asian Amerian an URM?

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:33 pm

r6_philly wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:there is some suggestion that being asian hurts a bit at the ivy league law schools...but i havent seen any hard evidence pointing to this.


Why is that (the reason that you heard)?


+1




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